What is the difference between the Faust and the Gran Faust's charge attack?
Tue, 05/12/2015 - 06:54
Aside from the Radiant Fire Crystal thing, I'm wondering if it's worth crafting up since I heard that the Gran Faust's charge time is longer than the Faust's.
Does it have any properties that validates this? i.e. Longer/wider range, higher chance of curse, significantly increased damage, etc?
Tue, 05/12/2015 - 07:20
#2
I do know, off the top of my head, that it has stronger curse at least to the user and probably for the monster as well, though it shouldn't matter too much how cursed the monster becomes as they all tend to either die incredibly quickly via spamming or have very few ill effects anyway. I know this because with enough points of curse resistance, the knight can become immune to faust's curse but that the same is not true (or at least much harder) for gran faust.
I'm far more hazy on the other aspects of the sword, but might test them later as I do have both weapons and the wiki doesn't seem to have the correct damage numbers that you require (faust vs slime/gremlin = 278 to 155 while gran faust = 188 to 206? I don't trust that). I've been assuming that gran faust does what it appears to do, meaning a bit more damage on a bit of a larger area to complement the larger curse- nor have I noticed anything to the contrary while using either sword.
Tue, 05/12/2015 - 07:38
#3
I do know, off the top of my head, that it has stronger curse at least to the user and probably for the monster as well, though it shouldn't matter too much how cursed the monster becomes as they all tend to either die incredibly quickly via spamming or have very few ill effects anyway. I know this because with enough points of curse resistance, the knight can become immune to faust's curse but that the same is not true (or at least much harder) for gran faust.
I can confirm. Just by wearing Radiant Silvermail (4 points), the Faust's curse only curses two pickup slots, and only one weapon.
I seem to recall 5 points being needed to resist Black Kat's curse to the same degree, and the wiki also states this as required to do the same for the Gran Faust.
The Faust's curse seems to act just like the Gran Faust's curse, except if the user had one extra point of resistance, since without any resistance I'm getting 39 seconds of curse, and with 6 points I'm getting 27 seconds.
Tue, 05/12/2015 - 07:32
#4
data
Gran Faust's charge time is extremely long compared to other 5-star swords. See for example these charges-per-minute data. You could run the same test with your Faust, to get an idea of the difference.
Presumably Gran Faust does more damage on regular and charge attacks. I can't comment on status or the charge attack's area of effect.
Tue, 05/12/2015 - 07:51
#5
@Bopp
According to that page, you had issues with the FoV values due to self-fire. What if you stood on the cure heart in the GTH?
I can get 16 or 17 charges out per minute with a no ASI, CTR VH Faust.
ASI Maximum, CTR VH Gran Faust's value on that page says 12.
Tue, 05/12/2015 - 08:10
#6
HOLY SNAP I THINK I JUST STUMBLED UPON SOMETHING BIG
HexZyle begins the ritual to summon Zeddy
Tue, 05/12/2015 - 08:41
#7
not me
First, I didn't run that FoV test. Probably Donkeyhaute did. It's basically his project. But I have run similar tests, standing on a heart generator in the Advanced Training Hall. Then there is no issue of dying from fire. But there is still the issue of fire's resetting the charge timer. It causes a lot of variability in the test results. So probably we should have more data for that test.
Second, you're reporting 16 or 17 CPM, whereas Lancer Knightz has 15 CPM. The effect of the ASI is at most 1 CPM, I'd say. So the difference is not big, but there may be a difference there, so maybe more data should be collected.
Tue, 05/12/2015 - 09:41
#8
I know Faust has large knockback on the charge slash. Does anybody know if there's a difference in the knockback between Faust and GF?
Tue, 05/12/2015 - 12:21
#9
That's because it's just a basic slash. The basic slashes of both Faust and GF have large knockback.
Tue, 05/12/2015 - 23:19
#10
Hm
Here's what little knowledge I have about the Faust and G.Faust:
Faust:
+ Has a decent Charge Time
+ Can be Immune to Self-Curse from the charge with 10+ points of Curse (Two natural Maxes from Armor and a High from Pet Perk/Armor UV)
+ Charge is alot more practical in real-time situations
+/- Inflicts Strong Curse (on you and the enemy)
- The hitbox on the charge-attack is "alright", but only good for single-target/rows
- It's 4*, so you're not getting the full capabilities of the sword's lineage
Gran Faust:
+ Full-fledged damage from the line
+ Hitbox on the charge is wide, grabs clustered mobs very easy, hits more times iirc
+/- Inflicts slightly Stronger Curse (on you and the enemy)
- 5 second charge without any bonuses, 4 seconds with its natural CTR: Med
- Due to ^, charge is alot less practical in real-time situations
- You are NOT immune to it's self-curse even past the 10 point threshold
Both:
+ Cause Curse on their second swing
- Have an approximate damage table, the difference between them being fairly miniscule in terms of damage
And that's all the facts I know about them. Don't ask me about frames and speeds and resets cause I don't have proper equipment to record and analyze the data... but what I can personally tell you is this; don't upgrade. At least not now, there are far better items you could use the radiants for than to upgrade this sword. The 4* item rocks pretty hard with the stats is has for dealing slightly less damage and the charge projectile being smaller.
Wed, 05/13/2015 - 01:26
#11
What is this big thing upon which stumbling happened
Wed, 05/13/2015 - 09:54
#12
I see your satanic summoning ritual worked but I do wonder why it was needed. What's the big thing here? If it's about self curse immunity, we already knew. On a completely unrelated notice, WTS Faust CTR Med
Fri, 05/15/2015 - 03:52
#13
Sorry to get your hype up, I thought I found something big (curse inflicted damage being reflective of the cursed weapon's damage output) but it was just a mistake in numbers.
Fri, 05/15/2015 - 09:17
#14
I would believe it could apply to self-curse, just like the self-fire on FoV.
Sun, 05/17/2015 - 06:03
#15
Back when I was a young knightling
Back in the old days of Spiral Knights the Gran Faust's charge attack was the same of the Divine Avenger's charge attack. Due to the Gran Faust's charge attack being too op (inducing 3 chances of curse) it was fitted toooo overpowered for such a game. So the charge attack was changed to it's 4* Faust charge attack we know today.
So if you want more damage, go for it. If not, sell it to Basil. :)
The selling difference it has from the Faust other than the charge time may just be a matter of one or two hits less to down most enemies the Gran Faust conventionally deals with. Or at least that is the most certain observation I can share on the subject anyway.
I do miss the three-way sword beams, however.