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How Echo of Silence is unintentionally ruining GvG

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Sáb, 01/23/2016 - 18:23
Imagen de Gianor
Gianor

GvG has always been a sort of haven for Lockdown; a place where you can escape the struggles of unbalanced teams and under-geared random team members, a proving ground where you could have a competitive 1v1 in peace, or just a place to have a nice brawl between guilds. Now, I've never participated in so much competitive Lockdown until just a month or so back, so I may be slightly uneducated when I'm talking about this, but regardless, I feel that there's an issue that needs to be talked about.

Echo of Silence has been the largest, most active guild in Spiral Knights for quite some time now. It's age and success, coupled with its friendly veteran players is practically a giant flame ready to attract moths. And while EoS is going through a time of great prosperity right now, its growth is slowly killing GvG in the background, and here's why.

1: Simply by existing and recruiting, Echo of Silence is "killing off the competition".
I'm sure we can all agree, EoS is a prime example of an ideal guild. As such, most people will be attracted to it's already established greatness. To want to be the best player, own the best gear or be part of the best guild is standard in an MMO because it's part of human nature to want to have the best. This will lead many people to apply for EoS, and if they are accepted, there's a good chance a smaller guild has just lost one of their ace players, and as a result, has had their foundation weakened, and their competitive abilities lowered. By losing able players, the smaller guild is alot less likely to put up a fighting chance against EoS, which will cause discouragement among members, and perhaps enable some to consider switching. It's a cycle that will repeat until the guild eventually dies and is absorbed into EoS.

2: Players flocking to Echo of Silence are essentially wasting their talent.
Imagine you just signed up for a GvG match against EoS, which six players would you expect to be up against? On the team you've just thought of, I'm sure Jumazo, Son-Of-Hades and Shadowcookiez are somewhere on the list. In the past three weeks (perhaps even further back), not once have I witnessed an EoS team without these players on it. If we were to go further, I'd also assume that the rest might include players such as Saturnknight, Sigle, Krakob and/or Mechadutchy. Unless you are on par with or better than these players, there is a very small chance you will ever make the team. This builds off of the first point in the fact that, as humans, we want the best. So of course, EoS would only want their most elite players representing them in affairs such as GvG. This turns any player that joined EoS for the GvG into nothing more than a benchwarmer who might get to play one game when a team member goes AFK. This practically robs smaller guilds of their best players and adds them to EoS' fold, where their talents are neither adequately nor frequently used.

Quick note regarding Solo Art here. What I've said about team selectivity here applies to them too, but to a much lesser extent, as to my knowledge they do not actively recruit.

I'd like to note that a couple of the players I've mentioned here (among others I haven't) have been great inspirations to me to improve my skill as a player to a level where I could stand up to them. However, you cannot grow strong if you do not face adversity, and by being in EoS, you limit your access to this kind of challenge to chance RLD encounters, or an inhouse session.

3: Due to it's application system, Echo of Silence is incredibly selective.
This is a minor point, but still relevant. You have to apply to EoS before you can be recruited, therefore any application is subject to any form of bias. Here is another example of people wanting the best. EoS will be more likely to accept somebody who has a strong reputation, rather than one that has just started, or one that has a kink or two in it. This leaves the less fortunate players to seek out lesser guilds that have already lost their talent to EoS, or had none to begin with. There's no real way to fix this as every guild has a member limit, and removing applications would cause a huge flood of recruits, but it does factor in to the situation.

4: Echo Of Silence is destined to become an empire if it continues down this path.
As it continues to absorb every other guilds' best players, it will eventually reach a point where nobody outside of EoS can put up a fight, or even want to try and put up a fight. When it reaches this point, the majority of GvG will be occupied by inhouse sessions. Now, there's nothing wrong with an inhouse; they're a fun way to play against fellow guildies, but it does remove the competitive side of GvG if its only used for inhousing, and it already is. We're almost at the end of a leaderboard week here, and five out of the ten guilds on the leaderboard belong to EoS. This shows how far GvG as gone, and why effort needs to be put in to make it live again.

5: Conclusion and Possible Solutions
Now, I by no means have a grudge against EoS for whats happening, neither do I blame them for it. There are certainly plenty of other reasons that a player would want to join it that are non-Lockdown related, such as friends, nice people, people to play with, etc. However a good portion of most recent applicants are heavily active in Lockdown, and do list GvG as a reason to join, and most of these applicants (as I have seen in game) were accepted. It's just a long chain of coincidences that stranded together and formed an issue for the GvG scene, and Lockdown orientated guilds in general. Developing a solution to reverse this mess would be difficult, but I thought one up that could be taken for consideration; Echo of Silence divides itself into 3-4 smaller, nonrelated guilds. This would split their talent into separate groups while still maintaining the generally nice people and attitude that made EoS a success in the first place, effectively turning GvG into an actual fight between Guilds again, and help bring variety back to a game mode that has lost it. I don't expect this to happen, but it's food for thought, and hopefully, a true solution will arise. If not, it's clear that players are simply too lazy to try and save a game mode from losing its luster, and would rather watch it die while making a quip or two about it.

Regardless if you agree or disagree, thank you for your time.
~Gianor

Sáb, 01/23/2016 - 20:50
#1
Imagen de Sweetsundere
Sweetsundere
Lazy4posts so if I wrote something wrongly you know the reason

"1: Simply by existing and recruiting, Echo of Silence is "killing off the competition"."

GvG has always been like this.. did you like ignore all those LD guilds that have spawned every week? Cause there has been so many I wouldn't be able to count all of them, a lot of "LD players" go play for that guild then quit and join the next, there's names I remember seeing on like almost every LD guild there has been, or at least back then anyway.

"3: Due to it's application system, Echo of Silence is incredibly selective."

Not to criticize EoS or anything but I've seen anyone getting in EoS nowadays for months. I'm sure nj acknowledges SK is more inactive than ever now so can't be as selective as he used to be for his new members.

"4: Echo Of Silence is destined to become an empire if it continues down this path."

Or you can just accept that LD is losing it's spark (lost it already imo) and make a thread about how SK is dying

Jempire was worse and my first GvG ever was against them, but hey I didn't quit, it just made me want to get stronger to beat them someday.

Dom, 01/24/2016 - 00:24
#2
Imagen de Krakob
Krakob

So you finally figure it out, huh? It's too late, Gianor. The wheels are in motion. We're gonna conquer GLD in ways you never thought possible. You think Jempire's reign of pola was bad? Two years on top of the leaderboard. Well how about two years of #10 through #1 on the leaderboards?

If we were to go further, I'd also assume that the rest might include players such as Saturnknight, Sigle, Krakob and/or Mechadutchy.
Yeah I know, these jerks keep playing GLD when I've gone to bed T_T

Dom, 01/24/2016 - 01:09
#3
Sweetiejaws-Forums

I stopped reading when you said people is joining EoS to be the best. Love how you talk as everyone was good there, they have only one or two good players sir.

Note: I see you want to join EoS so bad but you should quit SK and forget about that.

Note 2: Bob i love you baby

Dom, 01/24/2016 - 03:22
#4
Imagen de Bonjourhippo
Bonjourhippo
Yawn. Yes, EoS is current

Yawn.
Yes, EoS is current best, but it's mainly coz all the other LD guilds are lame. Guilds like Oracion and Halcyons could definitely hold up to them barely half a year ago, the reality is most players from these guilds left, and with them all competition did as well. You wouldn't know since you've started "competitive" LD so recently.

Dom, 01/24/2016 - 03:46
#5
Imagen de Leekcoco
Leekcoco
Um, GvG has always been

Um, GvG has always been unbalanced. People tend to like being with their peers, and if you play a lot of LD, your peers will likely to be LD players too. Makes sense right? After a while the lines kinda blur and you realise that all these LD guilds are pretty much the same 3 guilds with different names, and eventually enough people quit so that whoever is left just join the same guild. And here we are.

IDK, GvG was lots of fun for me in the past. But unless you can get both teams to mutually agree on a balanced draft of players, we're stuck in Subs vs Subs hell until LD spirals into a blackhole of death.

Dom, 01/24/2016 - 10:25
#6
Valtiros
What. This game is dead. You

What.

This game is dead. You 're pointless.

Dom, 01/24/2016 - 17:49
#7
Imagen de Pepperonius
Pepperonius
LOL Not-Bley

| I stopped reading when you said people is joining EoS to be the best. Love how you talk as everyone was good there, they have only one or two good players sir.

I'm Commander Shepard, and this is my favorite comment on the citadel.

But seriously, not-bley, or bleyu, or whoever you are. I seem to recall curb-stomping EVERYBODY when I play. EoS dabes. 1 or 2 good players? Please. I'm one of the lesser players in EoS, and I can beat 99% of this community with ease.

Lun, 01/25/2016 - 01:26
#8
Imagen de Theirillusion
Theirillusion

Before you know it there's a guild with less size but only LD players designed to take on EoS. Deja vu.

Lun, 01/25/2016 - 05:54
#9
Dutch-Oven
@Gianor and all else affected by this crisis

EoS has made an official announcement concerning this current crisis which you can see here.

If you would like to donate to help support the restitution efforts for those affected we have set up a kickstarter page.

Sincerely, Dutch Oven. CEO and president of EoS Europe branch.

Lun, 01/25/2016 - 16:41
#10
Sweetiejaws-Forums

@Peperonius Im sorry about this but i have no idea who are you mr community destroyer. im being serious when i say there are only one or two good players and this man dutch is one of them

Lun, 01/25/2016 - 20:58
#11
Imagen de Gianor
Gianor
Mhm, Okay.

Just stepping in here to clear up something which seems to have been misunderstood.

'you said people is joining EoS to be the best. Love how you talk as everyone was good there, they have only one or two good players sir...I see you want to join EoS so bad' -Bley

I'm not talking about the players here, I'm talking about size, longevity, activity and everything else that makes a guild favorable enough to seek membership. Many players would probably consider EoS to be one of the best guilds out there right now due to its large community, and the best GvG guild due to its overwhelming presence there. And for the record, I have no interest in joining EoS; none at all.

I'd also like to thank those who made EoG possible, that gave me a little chuckle :P

Lun, 01/25/2016 - 21:14
#12
Imagen de Bonjourhippo
Bonjourhippo
I remember you saying you

I remember you saying you were playing the game for a while Gianor, so you'll know that EoS is frankly a historical guild (in SK terms). If anything they deserve their current spot, is it really something to complain about or find unfair even? It's always been the most sought after guild membership, just look at their recruitment thread. That doesn't mean HOWEVER that no other guilds are worth joining; it just means that EoS is still the most attractive guild, it appeals to the broadest group of players. Big whoop.

On a side note, guilds like Light Of Soul also have reached their maximum member limit (300); their recruitment methods are questionable (received 10 invites in one day before I got in to tell em to f-off), they are a much worse "player hog" than EoS, IMO.

Lun, 01/25/2016 - 23:38
#13
Imagen de Abelisk
Abelisk
Indeed - EoS is a very tough

Indeed - EoS is a very tough guild to get into, think ivy league universities. Though the main issue is that the more people you know from EoS the higher the chance of getting in. If you're bffs with all the officers then you'll probably get in.

There are some guilds out there that are legitimately existing while carrying extremely selective recruitment. I saw one being advertised here that had something to do with speedrunning FSC and recording it, while completing FSC under a certain time limit. Stuff like that actually do exist.

Yet I've seen players that do not know any of the EoS members yet they get accepted. Mainly because of their funny and cunning representation on the apps they send.

EoS deserves its title and prestige, mainly due to its age. Am I in EoS? No. But I respect it, even though I barely know anyone there. The guild is successful and that's what matters.

As for interrupting GvG, just git gud, guys. Jempire only ranked high on the leaderboards due to making an alt guild and spam farming points to make it seem like they've beaten all the guilds in the game. EoS has been fighting guilds like Echo of [insert cliché name] to claim points as well.

Jumazo, Trinity-Limit, Shadowcookiez, Sigle, Doity, Momofuku, Mechadutchy, and a few others have been responsible for most GvG's, iirc.

Mar, 01/26/2016 - 00:04
#14
Imagen de Uncosung
Uncosung
stelli loves men

eos sucks i hate this game why am i playing

Mar, 01/26/2016 - 00:34
#15
Sweetiejaws-Forums

eos is the most attractive guild? it depends in what are you looking for. Want to win gvg nowaydays? apply for eos. Cant see something else that could make you want to join, i was told by their own members and ex members that there is hardly ever people online

Mié, 01/27/2016 - 10:52
#16
Ki-Na
but still

EoS dabes

Jue, 01/28/2016 - 06:09
#17
Tempas
lol eos has good players ?

lol eos has good players ?

Dom, 01/31/2016 - 08:06
#18
Imagen de Blue-Flood
Blue-Flood

Trump for President

Mar, 02/02/2016 - 12:02
#19
Imagen de Goldeneman
Goldeneman
0.o

GvG still lives?

Vie, 02/12/2016 - 02:13
#20
Imagen de Avenswag
Avenswag
Indifference work hard

Indifference work hard in gvg for you.

GM of Indifferece Avenswag.

Vie, 02/12/2016 - 13:47
#21
Imagen de Xaurian
Xaurian

In short, what I see here is that all competition is gone, which of course leaves Echo of Silence as the sole winner. Considering Spiral Knights as a whole is stagnating, this is pretty much an inevitable side effect.

While I could git gud and try to start a new Lockdown guild meant to serve as something new for EoS to fight and get jealous over, I'm not the kind of guy who'd be capable of doing that.

Sáb, 02/13/2016 - 04:02
#22
Imagen de Midnight-Dj
Midnight-Dj
:/

"Guess who is going to inherit the world? Arms dealers, because everyone else is too busy killing each other. That is the secret to survival, never go to war, especially with yourself." - Lord of War

Mié, 02/17/2016 - 02:30
#23
Imagen de Lord-Fullstop
Lord-Fullstop
Tbh this thread does not make

Tbh this thread does not make much sense, with many holes. EoS dominating LD and killing competition is very false because not all guilds or people play LD. Being the best at a certain thing in the game does not make a guild the best. What makes a guild the best is time, reputation, and players.

If you visit guild recruitment forum Retribution Council is equally as frequently applied to as EoS and are also very selective [what Itsmeandersonlol said]. That is because they are the best PvE guild atm but it doesn't mean they are also killing off competition, and they are way younger to.

People will join guilds because of similar interest. Many join EoS for PvP and many join Retribution Council for PvE, it is just how things are. I am in neither guild and I can see this lol.

Maybe it is because this is a LD topic you and many in coliseum are oblivious to this.

Mié, 02/17/2016 - 03:59
#24
Imagen de Autisylveon
Autisylveon

Surfin' Bird

Mié, 03/23/2016 - 08:24
#25
Imagen de Sprunket
Sprunket
Recons are people too!

GvG stacked teams with base camping and the final ruination of the free LD republic. . . . . .Pick me coach. . .pick me!

Vie, 03/25/2016 - 07:02
#26
Imagen de Ragga-Prince
Ragga-Prince
Even if all this stuff you

Even if all this stuff you said was actually viable, I don't agree simply because of the fact that EoS is dead.

Mar, 03/29/2016 - 11:44
#27
Extrajuicybits
EoS is dead? gosh I blame nj.

EoS is dead? gosh I blame nj. I thought he would play sk till he was 69.

'Jumazo, Son-Of-Hades and Shadowcookiez'...back in the day it was hadn and muppet real pros (probably more but I forgot :X)

Mié, 03/30/2016 - 05:02
#28
Dutch-Oven
As GM of EoS I feel I ought

As GM of EoS I feel I ought to say something.

Kumquat.

Mié, 03/30/2016 - 05:47
#29
Imagen de Meep-The-Bank
Meep-The-Bank
Meep.

Isn't EoS quite easy to handle?

Just have a team of 3-4 strikers, 1 recon and 1-2 guardians. 2 strikers play offensive, distracting away from capture point, the other 2 to handle any conflict upon capture points. Guardians are primarily being carried, but should be able to handle themselves and move to and from capture point. Recon's duty is to check on team's captured CPs and try to sustain and distract other team from decapping the point.

However, the only way a guild can beat EoS is by teamwork and communication. Teamspeak is recommended.

P.S They were easy to beat, as long as Hadn wasn't a pain / wasn't playing.

Mié, 03/30/2016 - 06:19
#30
Manava
Guilds are just friends who

Guilds are just friends who want to play together build that small guild few members(20 - 30) only that's the ideal guild at least for me other than that no matter what you tell me your guild sucks.

Vie, 04/08/2016 - 02:29
#31
Imagen de Kingtinkinzar
Kingtinkinzar
Hail, King Tinkinzar!

Greetings knights,

i come too inquire that not every guild will be absorbed by EoS, mainly cause of their elitist look on the game. I am GM and Representative of the tinkering gremlins as you all may know and we have been rising up since the its foundation of the guild and i must say its been going well, We aren't going anywhere and when the time is ripe we can and SHALL rise against EoS's GvG dominance, maybe sooner then later. Prepare yourselves!

The Tinkering gremlins: WE ARE GREMLINS!, WE ARE UNITY!, FOR THE IRON LAW!!!!

Well Met ~KingTinkinzar
(Oh and EoS is kinda ded boys ROFLMAO")

Vie, 04/08/2016 - 16:30
#32
Vloxor
.

So what's your goal with this post? Declaration of war? We do need to get this Guild stuff sorted out, like all the really small idle Guilds.

Sáb, 04/23/2016 - 22:57
#33
Imagen de Shaunfrost
Shaunfrost
i kinda hate eos for battling

i kinda hate eos for battling my past guilds and crushing their hope,so i often move to another guild cuz of my gm's crushed hope,but still i dont resent eos that much.

pls dont crush my new guild to pieces, Y_Y

(>^_^)>-/====> (^*_*^)

Dom, 04/24/2016 - 22:31
#34
Vozhd
Nice one Vloxor

You should try Felixus, Shaun. We are a pretty old guild who for some reason never gives upxD. Also Vloxor, talk to you later. King tink's guild lol. King you literally lost everyone who was decent???? Like how. And now you have Herculeso as your guild representative to SK at this point I pity you

Lun, 04/25/2016 - 08:44
#35
Imagen de Autofire
Autofire
You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

If EoS is too big, why don't you just give them some competition? Just make a massive guild and see what they do about it!

Call it..."Repetition of Quiet"

Lun, 04/25/2016 - 20:07
#36
Imagen de Kingtinkinzar
Kingtinkinzar
Hail, King Tinkinzar!

@etel Herculeso is our representative? O.o well then thats something me him and the rest of our guild doesnt know (hes a member just like the rest of us + the representative of TG is still me as all may know)... what do you see as good? ld players who get 30k dam? cause if thats your vision of good players well then enjoy your dead gamemode... 12-20 people play actively every day. sk = 500 active players a day +/- thats 2-4% of the players of sk that actually play sk when theyre online.... ye i did the math do it too.... Haters gonna hate

Lun, 04/25/2016 - 20:06
#37
Imagen de Kingtinkinzar
Kingtinkinzar
Hail, King Tinkinzar!

oh and we rek you in bn with 2 afk's Pls boi... choose your enemies wisely!

Lun, 04/25/2016 - 23:01
#38
Vloxor
@Shaunfrost

You can't just give up on your Guild, especially if your the Guild Master. How did your Guild Master get crushed by EoS anyway? But I mean... Small Guilds kinda take a lot of different people from the recruiting picture, so no Guild can ever get big. I don't see how small Guilds help, unless they're an organized academy for new players -> Vanguard rank. Anyways, that's my opinion...

Mar, 04/26/2016 - 06:17
#39
Vozhd
What EoS does to big guilds

Lol. You've never tried GMing a big guild. It is stress and work. Also EoS and any serious LD team will just spark when they start to lose, depressing your guild mates and making your guild look bad, allowing EoS to recruit all your top players.

Mar, 04/26/2016 - 06:28
#40
Vozhd
That BN match

Yes, Felixus is not a large BN presence, but we have created a new team which supposedly is good. Also, Dejection was on purpose team killing.... Also sorry for the double post. Ummmm King tink, inquire isn't used that way..."[kingtinkinzar is]very literate in four languages." Sure Man, Felixus ain't looking for the enemies. Friends, allies, and ruthlessly hunted traitors are all that can exist!

Mié, 04/27/2016 - 05:42
#41
Boss-Pnxdz
Felixus!

Felixus GM: Boss-Pnxdz
Greetings Everyone!
I don't care if Eos left the game, or destroyed GvG. @Tinkinzar you're talking to much , you have few BN players and you are trying to show off with those players.
Felixus is getting bigger and bigger. We are going to get back GvG's , we did some LD matches .
You are saying that u can rek Felixus. Now i don't want to remind you of how we destroyed Tinkering Grems on GVG.

We are Felixus!
We do not forgive,
We do not forget,
Expect us!

Mié, 04/27/2016 - 07:08
#42
Imagen de Abelisk
Abelisk

Felixus is sounding really desparate rn

Mié, 04/27/2016 - 09:54
#43
Imagen de Kingtinkinzar
Kingtinkinzar
Hail, King Tinkinzar!

@felixus you fought subs not TG the only reason this fight happend was cause 1 guy in the guild wanted to do gvg... fyi when we did it he even logged of and didnt participate so we didnt even try fyi as you could have seen i was sitting in base cause i refuse to play a sub run game... but i did want my guildie(s) too have a chance of gvg'ing but when you guys woop out the polaris and shit talk its not fun...

Mié, 04/27/2016 - 09:58
#44
Imagen de Kingtinkinzar
Kingtinkinzar
Hail, King Tinkinzar!

and we have more bn players then almost any other guild weegeftw, herculeso, kiindia, fight-with-me, zzplox, red-empire, spiral-magic, dingus-gremlin, super-cheesy,... i have no need to continue, enjoy your lockdown guild.... (oi ld guilds die within 2-3 months these days or turn into pve guilds... just so you know)

Mié, 04/27/2016 - 10:00
#45
Imagen de Kingtinkinzar
Kingtinkinzar
Hail, King Tinkinzar!

oh and +1 meander :)

Mié, 04/27/2016 - 11:03
#46
Vozhd
Wait Can we plz move this to a new thread?

I love public confrontation but put it in a new thread this makes absolutely no sense, at least put it on one of the guild recruitment pages lol. (I thought I was bad with a double post). Plus we didn't polaris... You're imagining things. Finally, yes boss we do look a bit desperate. (even though we really have no reason to be) Anyway, just to finish up this thread, EoS is gonna come back in winter probs and rek everyone so yay! Finally, why would someone post a way to beat EoS 2 days ago, when it's been dead for a week xD

Jue, 04/28/2016 - 21:14
#47
Vloxor
@Boss-Pnxdz

Did you really just copy Anonymous's motto? C'mon come up with something yourself, not steal from another group. And... it looks as if a rivalry might start. Yus, but I cant take sides because I like both Guilds.... Crap.

Vie, 04/29/2016 - 12:29
#48
Imagen de Logiicube
Logiicube
TG v Felixus

Stop the fights in forums.. Forum isn't created to fight lol.... I would suggest not fight like shits.. Fight like cocks in SK.. XD..
Both guilds are good..
TG known for its excellency in BN
While..
Felixus known for its exellency in LD..
Both guilds have different fields on...
Stop fighting, both guild are perfect and shining... Stop fighting..
Both guilds are good at their own preferences... Peace...

Vie, 04/29/2016 - 12:36
#49
Vozhd
Wanna merge with Felixus

Yo you should think about it, we can discuss more exact terms to convince you.

Dom, 05/08/2016 - 19:25
#50
Imagen de Xaurian
Xaurian

In hindsight: MFW this whole thread

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