As someone who shivs Vana in pubs, a Tortofist would *really* piss me off. The constant damage ticks basically nullify a shiv's freeze. One of the benefits of the Blitz is that it delivers all it's damage in a small time frame, which minimizes the time Vana spends unfrozen. More time he is unfrozen, the more he turns -> the more he turns, the more often someone is in front of him -> when someone is in front of his face, he attacks -> if Vana can attack, shadow fire spawns, lag spikes and the fight gets more chaotic and difficult to control.

The other benefit of the Blitz is that it outright one-shots Trojans. Removes them from the fight instantly. It can also almost instantly kill a Slag Guard in a full party too.

As for vortex combos, Brandish charges are good. Personally I find Magnus Charges at max range to be the best, but they tend to cause lag-spikes. The problem with the Rocket Hammer is that you get stuck next to the vortex of enemies, which will often get you hit if you stay too long. Brandish charges get you in then out rather quickly. Divine Avenger charge also works, but that it is still a bit... fiddly... It'll fizzle out if you have your back to a wall when you use it. If you want to go goofy, pull out a Triglav or a Sudaraska to drop a mountain on them. Not as effective as a Brandish charge or a DA charge, but it is satisfying.

That said, if you run face first into a vortex and start swinging your normal combos, I can almost guarantee that you'll get hit in the face. Again, quick in, quick out.

And I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I'm saying that Shiv + Tortofist is outright incompatible. If you're trying to make a more "standard" FSC loadout with more standard FSC geared players, it just doesn't work with a shiv. Admittedly, not all pubs will have a shiv, so this is not something you always need to worry about... but the thread seems to have stemmed from FSC pubs getting mad at your loadout. I'm merely pointing out what part of your loadout would piss me off as an FSC pub player.

Also, one thing I forgot about Vortex combos is your sprite. My personal favorite is the Seraphynx's Disintegration Ray, which does both good amounts of Elemental damage to stationary targets and reduces a target's defenses. Maskeraith's Quills can also work well, especially if you have that one quill upgrade which jumps to other targets on hit. Drakon is arguably the worse in FSC, as the only practical skill is Frenzied Firestorm. The boost is good, but one of the benefits to using the Kitty Lazor and Mask Quills is that they have relatively short cooldowns, letting you get off multiple Vortex+Lazor/Quill combos per fight.

Final Flourish is underrated, so I'm glad to see players using it. (When it had long length instead of the current short length, it was even better. But Three Rings nerfed it for the sake of PvP.) But it probably hinders your acceptance by close-minded players. Anyway, Blitz Needle might be all you need to be accepted. Cheers.

You know what... I disagree with the idea that an expert party is faster without a shiv. If your blitzers are in sync, then you blitz as often as a CTR Max Blitz can go, without having to bait attacks or dodge (beyond moving in a circle around Vana while he's frozen, but you can easily do that while charging). At worst, the fight takes *maybe* 10 seconds longer, for like 10x the risk, at the end of a 20-30 minute long run. People don't like it because it's monotonous, so it feels like it takes longer.

And that argument falls on it's face when you bring a *Dark Retribution*(!?) into FSC to deal with zombies. I sure hope you meant Dark Briar Barrage. Furthermore, we're talking FSC pubs here, not top tier skilled play.

I'll admit that a Shiv isn't the perfect bomb in most situations, because you tend to not need the hard disable as much (if not outright hindering your movement as it prevents shield bumping). However, the few times you want that hard disable is with Trojans, and Dreadnoughts (Slag Guards), to keep their orientation consistent (and by extension, their weakpoint). Vanaduke too needs that hard disable to prevent him from attacking wildly, and flooding the arena with shadow fire.

Well, I usually see that you should always be doing damage, that's all
Going back to "reasons why I would kick you from my FSC party," doing this while I'm using a Shiv would be a major one. When a target is frozen, you prep to do a large damage burst to break the freeze, instead of instantly breaking it with a peck. Doing it against frozen Trojans, for example, would infuriate me.