Spiral Knights - Troika line should be improved.

Troika line should be improved.

105 replies [Last post]

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 02:38

Ewbte

The biggest sword in game is one of the weakest swords in game! That's not right.

Before I get Triglav ASI VH, I was using Divine Avenger ASI VH, and first thing I noticed - was great difference between them in attack speed.
I though "Oh nvm.. it's looks so awesome.."

But then I noticed another bad thing - Sealed Line always prevent monsters attack with second swing, but Troika Line - not. So almost every combo makes me dead.
I though "Oh no worry, maybe its just a bug" and I made this topic http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/27541 where many users of this swords confirmed this issue.

Today I was in a JK run, equipped with maximum damage bonus, and at depth 16 I tried to check my damage:
• Triglav Complete 165/200 to all
• Faust 5 lvl 153/204 to constructs (they take its damage normally)
I though "ORLY?"

pc. I'm not talkin about charged attack, u know how bad it is.

Listed below Divine Avenger damage is to slimes and fiend which don't have resist or weakness to it.
• DA first + second swing do 597 damage
• Sudaruska first + second swing do 579 damage

• DA charged attack do 600* damage with swing + 131 multiply projectiles hits + multiply knockback
• Sudaruska charged attack do 468 damage

So the suggestion is easy. Just make Troika Line same with Sealed Line in average damage per second.
+ improve charged attack and add stun bonus to sudaruska as it was on troika/kamarin.
Also Sudarsuka should have a chance to receive stun from charged attack, same as curse from GF charged attack. I think it's fair and balanced.
Charged attack should have a bigger radius, because its almost impossible to hit monsters with it now.

It's boring to see everyone with DA and GF only because they are usefu.. ups! only because other heavy swords is underpowered.

Thank you.

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 04:14

Krazik

i agree with you!

The status lumbers attacks have high chances of causing their corresponding status affliction AND STUN.

The troika lines needs to be made more attractive to use..... and negative billion to the idea of nerfing the sealed swd lines if this suicidal thought was EVER brought up.

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 00:24

Ewbte

bump

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 00:43

Madadder

this is old news that has

this is old news that has popped up time and time again since troika line was nerfed by now they know and are either working on it or won't for an indefinite amount of time

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 08:25

Ewbte

bump

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 09:15

Juances

Why always making comparison

Why always making comparison with DA? it's a boss reward, it should be better.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 09:50

Kraanx

omg cheese

but the troika line is also underpowered when compared to other, faster swords. so i think we need it not to be faster, but hit a little harde, or maybe have more chance of status effect on 2nd hit (and charge could have back the rocks, giving status effects)
leave the sealed sword as it is, plz.
i lol'd at ewbte's 2 bumps

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 14:38

Mohandar

buff please

The troika lines are SLOWER than the sealed sword lines. I've heard they also don't really have any more reach than the latter. Thus, they should do at least 33% more damage OR have more range than the sealed swords to compensate. And the "reward line should be better" is not a good argument, the Fang of Vog is a piece of junk. I'm tempted to get a troika line simply because the charge attack is so hilarious, but not as a useful weapon.

My preference would be for slightly increased damage and range, and a greatly buffed charge attack (larger AoE, strong status and high chance).

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 16:11

Tsubasa-No-Me

I AM Troika.

I use troikas... no, All i use, are troikas... in fact, The only weapons i ever made were troika and another troika... I have Wolver 2*(Angelic too now, thanks to a donation :D ), bristling buckler 2*, a Grintovec AND a Khorovd... No joke! i Can spam my Charge in most t2 arenas, and win. If you dont believe me, try me ingame! ;D

I know almost if not all of troika's quirks, and, I LOVE them! :3 now... they could be buffed a bit ingame... BUT, the only thing that should change is dealing a bit more Damage, OR <-- Keyword!) a larger hit box, but only a little bit...

Trust me, Troikas are SUPPOSED to be hard to use, but the proper use should be more satisfying ...

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 22:20

Tsubasa-No-Me

You know what? Bump. That's what. >.>

I never have bumped before, but this is worth it... to have the Troika used effectively in a large group it needs a tweak to make it's hard gameplay mechanic worth while....

Sat, 11/19/2011 - 13:13

#10

Tsubasa-No-Me

Bump again.... >.>

Troika haters! XP

Sat, 11/19/2011 - 14:19

#11

Kitty-Softpaws

I don't use heavy swords as

I don't use heavy swords as an offensive weapon. The thing is that most of the gear players use are for offense. The Troika series are good in arenas when you have to mob. And very good against greavers. OMG you do not know how much it helps against a mob of them. You're just not the slow sword type. It's now the weapon that matters it's how you use it. I got the Troika line since I needed a way to mob in arenas since my Calibur series weren't that well for the last wave of the final arena. And I have no regrets, I love my mobbing sword and oh how it has saved me the trouble of wasting massive energy on my fainted teammates indeed! No to mention that it makes up in RANGE!! Troika line is all good.

Sat, 11/19/2011 - 14:20

#12

Kitty-Softpaws

Small rooms and a mob of

Small rooms and a mob of monsters. Range and a mobbing sword. Master your timing when making swings/combo.

Sat, 11/19/2011 - 17:03

#13

Coldtart

The thing with the troika

The thing with the troika line isn't that it's not as good as the SS lines, it's that it's utterly hopeless compared to the SS lines. The initial hit of a DA or GF charge comes out faster and does more damage to resistant foes that the troika charge does with its single hit, followed by extra damage from projectiles and high chance of curse if it's a GF.

The real killer is that the levi blade, another neutral alternative to special type swords, is better than its rivals against neutral targets and has a charge attack to die for, while the suda/trig are worse than their rivals against neutral targets with normal attacks and have a contender for the worst charge attack of any weapon.

The only reason to use a troika at all is because it looks badass. If you have four weapon slots you'd use the BTB DA GF doom combo and if you have two and want a neutral primary weapon the levi makes it a far harder question than it should be.

Sat, 11/19/2011 - 20:19

#14

Tsubasa-No-Me

Well if they would just...

Try giving the 4 & 5* SOMETHING besides its ridiculous amount of knock back ( <3 ) it might make it worth while... like adding a ripple effect to the charge that doesnt do any damage OUTSIDE the hitbox of the strike. The ripple would do something like knock them down of give a status or (Gasp) both! :D i t would need to be timed so that they dont get knocked into a freezing ripple (Triglav) or get stunned again...

Actually, wouldn't you LOVE to see how Awesome the charge looks with ripples knocking down the foes near you? It would defiantly add to the whole "Mountain 'O Doom" thing they have and it would promote the Suda/Triglav up to a in-a-pinch/status/team weapon. Also making it a viable choice against the Leviathan...

Sat, 11/19/2011 - 20:44

#15

Nechrome

Yes. Troika line need a big

Yes. Troika line need a big buff. sort of.

I have the KHorovod and the Jalovec, and I'm pretty good with them. But I feel that they need an upgrade, or something. The only things that I feel they are really good for are smashing fiends (yes, fiends. the troika line is actually incredibly awesome for fiends), constructs (especially with the charge), and Gremlins. and beasts. and zombies.

basically, anything but slimes and kats. lolz.

I read in a thread like this that the reason the Troika line does less damage than the other swords is because, in return for safety (the knockback mashes enemies away from you to some extent, preventing them from hitting you), you lose doing more damage.

also, THe Jalovec has a chance to cause freeze on its 2nd combo attack hit, but the Khorovod doesn't cause stun. The least they could do is let it do that.

also related to the above paragraph: WHen I use my Jalovec in Lockdown, I noticed that the freeze on its 2nd hit never ever happens. Bug?

Sat, 11/19/2011 - 21:36

#16

Turbie

Khorovod

@Lord I think khorovod able to cause stun if charged. I remember doing it once tho.

Sat, 11/19/2011 - 23:50

#17

Tsubasa-No-Me

There is a bug...

The 2nd hit of a jalovec or khorovod wont cause status... its a pain... just one more reason to upgrade the series~! :3

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 03:41

#18

Fehzor

Oh look

Another thread about troika for me to post my agreeance in. +1.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 07:54

#19

Tsubasa-No-Me

This is the only kind of thread i will bump endlessly....

Yay! Another supporter! And @ lordofnecromacers, i havent quite got feinds down... but i can help you with slimes and kats! ;3

Slimes: with the slow attack speed you have to keep a good distance with normal attacks (Not recommended) and/or use your charge only, aiming where they will be, and watch them learn to fly! >u<

Kats: the trick with kats it to start attacking before they charge, so when they get to you, they get hit. DONT USE YOUR CHARGE!!! O.O

any-who..... Lets get more supporters!

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 08:21

#20

Draciusen

Make it seem like an actual "heavy" weapon

You know how those lumbers deal a crapload of damage, but slowly? That's what the Troika should do (Albeit a bit faster, since Lumber-speed would practically kill you 100% of the time).

-Every hit should have a large damage and AoE that knocks monsters quite far back (And even make the Jelly King flinch a bit).
-And what better charge attack for a mountain of a sword than a freaking EARTHQUAKE?
-The ice version (Not good with names), should have avalanche as its charge.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 16:51

#21

Tsubasa-No-Me

A-hem!

It already has the marks of a mountain.. a REALLY heavy mountain: it is THE slowest weapon in the game, the charge takes the most time to hit, and has the most knockback with normal hits AND charge attack....

Again, the only thing i want to push for is a slightly bigger hitbox OR a "ripple" effect outside the charge hitbox that knocksdown/interupts only for 4* & 5*...

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 22:48

#22

Tsubasa-No-Me

Man! i really have to...

Bump! >.> C'mon! Comment, help improve suggestions! Make Troika's a Competitor with the Leviathan! XP

Mon, 11/21/2011 - 00:42

#23

Knightrails

Honestly, all they really

Honestly, all they really needed to do for the troika is A) increased damage, B) large AOE for the charge attacks at 4* and above.

Mon, 11/21/2011 - 06:50

#24

Kraanx

AND rocks.a sword that heavy

AND rocks.
a sword that heavy banging into the ground and no shockwave-like thing coming out is kinda disapointing.
that doesnt mean i wont stop using her as my beloved default sword, but still.

Mon, 11/21/2011 - 07:36

#25

Tiagolima

In my opinion, troika was

In my opinion, troika was made to be a zoning weapon, so it should have more range than a SS line weapon ( i never used it but i think they have the same range ) and also win in status, because most swords only hit with the status with the charge, so why not sudaruska with stun on 2nd hit. The damage need to be better on charge too, because i hate to see leviathan's users spamming it when they are about to die, and it does alot of knockback too, plus serious damage.

BTW, going to get a grintovec now just for the lulz :P

Mon, 11/21/2011 - 08:50

#26

Alpha-Stevo

I was a bit disappointed to

I was a bit disappointed to see that, a weapon that hit so hard that it can cause the earth to rise up, cannot cause a measly shockwave from the force of it hittin' the ground so hard.

I, for one, am goin' with Tsub's suggestion of earthquake mountain swords. So +1 to that.

Mon, 11/21/2011 - 13:51

#27

Tsubasa-No-Me

Woot!

@Tiagolima:
I agree, (If zoning means dealing damage/status to a large group ;) because, already, they're not damage swords, they are Knockback MASTERS! so the charge at 4*+ should do something to a MASSIVE area... and it doesn't have to be damage, because it already does more damage than a gun... just knockdown/interupt...

And BTW, The lulz for a Grintovec are hilarious! charge SMASHING people in Lockdown, laughing at them while their frozen, then smacking them from behind! X3

@Alphastevo:
Thanks for the +1! :D try to get your Troika loving pals to comment if you can ;3

Mon, 11/21/2011 - 15:22

#28

Hijadestone

i have considered geting

i have considerd geting troika but have decided snaral barb all the way

Mon, 11/21/2011 - 16:11

#29

Tiagolima

zoning means you can attack

zoning means you can attack safety, in a zone, and also sudaruska should have stun possible on 2nd hit. I am making grintovec right now. Wish me luck with UV's ^^

Also, i support you with the earthquake charge, since the emotion does like a crush and i think rocks come off the ground, it should hit too, not just to look cute ..

Mon, 11/21/2011 - 16:16

#30

Tiagolima

sorry for double post, my

sorry for double post, my mistake.

Mon, 11/21/2011 - 18:53

#31

Nechrome

@Tsubasa-No-Me Actually, the

@Tsubasa-No-Me

Actually, the 2nd hit of the Jalovec's 2hit combo can cause freeze. but never in lockdown. =P

Thx for the help with kats and jellies!

for devilites, just ry to dodge/ shield the attacks or run around so they can't get a target lock, get in close, then POW.
Works every time.

For Greavers, before they swarm you, begin you 2 hit combo. if you time it correctly, the greavers should be whacked away by the 2nd hit of the combo. repeat. works for me.

silkings, just kill them. but try to clear away any enemies near them first.

Trojans, just be careful. I assume you already know how to kill one.

anyways, something like this stuff.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 00:34

#32

Tsubasa-No-Me

Hrm... perhaps i need a better shield...

Why cant jalovec and the like freeze in LD??? :C

And... i have been testing the khorovod's hit box against the Sealed Sword and they might have fixed the range a bit for troika series... but i need a confirm.. :/

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 13:25

#33

Tsubasa-No-Me

KIIIIYYYAAAA!!!!

I REFUSE to let this thread die! >n<

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 00:34

#34

Tsubasa-No-Me

bumpity

bump bump....

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 05:01

#35

Kraanx

*le bump*

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 22:53

#36

Ewbte

bump for justice!

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 04:14

#37

Kraanx

we need new commenters....

Sun, 11/27/2011 - 05:48

#38

Ewbte

bump

Sun, 11/27/2011 - 09:58

#39

Kickthebucket

ok free bump then... make it

ok free bump then...

make it a weapon that's actualy usefull (compared to the SS lines) and i'll craft it, untill then i'll use my SS for normal damage

Sun, 11/27/2011 - 10:46

#40

Ufana

Troika needs a boost. -

Troika needs a boost.
- Guaranteed or better status effect on second swing hit would be neat.
- Maybe bigger range.
- More dmg.
- Don't care much about attack speed.

I've been running around with sudaruska for a while now - it's just inferior to most other swords in any way.

Sun, 11/27/2011 - 21:04

#41

Slayzz

Here's what I think would be

Here's what I think would be a decent upgrade for the Sudaruska. Keep in mind that the DA/GF are boss rewards, so they should remain slightly better.

Basic attack: Fair chance of stun on BOTH hits, or good chance on 2nd. (Same with freeze on Triglav)
Charge attack: Chance of stun: AoE = size of cold snap.
**This would mean that the Triglav would he a sword version of hail driver, where the charge could keep the enemy in place, yet keep doing DMG.

I think these upgrades would bring this crap sword line up to par with SS and Brandishes.

Sun, 11/27/2011 - 22:34

#42

Fehzor

Add attack canceling on the

Add attack canceling on the second hit. I noticed many of you forgot about that one... DA/GF will cancel monster's attacks on the second hit; suda will not.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 01:54

#43

Ufana

Oh... thats awful. I actually

Oh... thats awful. I actually noticed that using sudaruska I had to "pay with HP" every time I wanted to do the second hit into a vortex full of zombies... but I thought that was just due to lower damage? Isn't cancelling damage-dependant? Many other "weak" weapons (callahan, DBB etc...) often seem mostly to cancel in the first half of any tier.

Anyway - yes, this is a big drawback. It means going solo, some mobs take up to three times the time to kill with a troika line 5* compared to the "neutral" sealed sword (p.E. GF against beast / construct) - unless you can afford to get hit once for every 3-5 enemies you encounter.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 03:44

#44

Kraanx

well, it depends a lot on

well, it depends a lot on skill, but that attack interruption thing HAZ to work.
at least grintovecs and kamarins are way better than SS in t2 lockdown.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 12:29

#45

Alpha-Stevo

Attack interruption on hit is

Attack interruption on hit is definitely gonna stop the enemies from maulin' you as you whack them to death with a mountain on a stick.

Which is the way it SHOULD be with a weapon this slow.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:54

#46

Nacho

Youre all right

to be a heavy weapon its kinda weak, i dont think it is supossed to be faster because it is a heavy weapon you know.
Something that is really annoying about the triglave series is that when it freezes it has no knockback so the enemy still can hit you ad it looses the whole point.

Just more damage and more area no more speed it wouldnt make sense, and add a knockback when it freeze.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:05

#47

Dando-Real-Ita

The radius on attack ad

The radius on attack ad charge should be increased ( a lot on charge, best if it matches the vortex fuse radius, to balance how slot it is to perform and how much it leaves open ).
In PvP, the radius is even more nerfed, the first hit of a flourish reach further than that of the sudaruska

However, I don't expect anything balance-related to ever happen in the game.
Let's face the truth, balancing doesn't increase OOO income like accessories, shadow keys or elevator passes do.

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 06:46

#48

Ewbte

bump

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 16:23

#49

Kraanx

BUMP.

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 06:40

#50

Kraanx

@dando. flourish and SB both

@dando.
flourish and SB both have an increased attack distance bug in LD.

Search

Troika line should be improved.