Spiral Knights - Improved Prize Wheel

Improved Prize Wheel

36 replies [Last post]

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 00:52

Driggan

I don't believe anyone in Tier 3 will contest the idea that, while the Prize Wheel is a fun little addition to the game, it is ultimately pointless. The only thing worth anything at all in the prize list are the lockboxes. Nobody in Tier 2 or 3 cares about an extra 25 crowns when moving from one level to the next costs (at current energy prices) 600 crowns.

It's clear that the Prize Wheel needs to be made more relevant and fun. I have several recommendations:

Crowns should be different at different tiers:

Tier 1: 5, 15, 25, *rare 50* crowns.
Tier 2: 15, 25, 50, *rare 100* crowns.
Tier 3: 25, 50, 100 *rare 250* crowns.

Honestly, the higher crown prizes could be made even higher without ruining balance, especially if the higher amounts were rarer than the lower amounts.

Potions are not very useful in and of themselves. This is especially so since there are so many that your bar will often be filled with them, even if you never end up using them. Winning them in the Prize Wheel results in another useless potion or something that never makes it onto your bar anyway, due to lack of space. Instead:

1.Prize Wheel potions should be single use mega-powerful potions that can last longer or do more damage than a potion of that tier. In effect, it should be useful in a tight situation or boss. This may include extra-strength healing capsules.
2. It should have its own space and hotkey on your bar.
3. If you want to make it even more dynamic and fun, create potions that the player drinks to become stronger or cause status effects with attacks.

Hearts, currently unimportant unless you win full health, so:

Instead of the current hearts, which I believe only heal 3 (at least on Tier 3) let there be two versions of healing. One heals you to full and is more rare, the other heals you 1/3 or 1/2 of however much health you have. This allows it to scale at any tier and Vitapod level.

Other prizes:

Lockbox prizes are fine (their contents are for a different suggestion thread) but there could be a few additional and obviously rare prizes:

1. Mist Tank
2. Tokens, like Forge Sparks. Probably 3 per prize.
3. Jackpot: 1000 crowns or more.
4. A high level mat, depending on Tier.
5. Costume items / Accessories

Certainly you must get rid of things like Grave Dust. I'm already swimming in the stuff, I don't need the Prize Wheel to hand me any more.

Finally, to make the Prize Wheel more interactive and dynamic, there should be two additional mechanics:

1. The ability to forfeit any heat you gained that round in order to gain another spin. This acts as both a gamble and something you can do once all your items are fully leveled.
2. Spend energy to reroll the Wheel. Should only cost about 3 energy (180 crowns per current market). For those searching hard for costume items or for those who just don't like their roll.

Only one reroll should be allowed, since there is limited time between levels anyway.

What do you think?

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 01:22

Evilnut

The real purpose of the prize wheel

It's just there, as a somewhat awkward way, to distribute the iron lock boxes (because if lock boxes are items, only the one picking it up will get it, then players will have to fight for it destroying the co-operative atmosphere).

Other things also on the prize wheel are consolation prizes. Like a tissue. They are not supposed to be great or useful or anything.

If anything, I want the prize wheel animation to go faster... it's still going on after heat's all drained up. Stop wasting time and start loading the next level already!

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 01:56

Madadder

initial thought when reading

initial thought when reading the title "oh great another one"

i said it once i'll say it again, the prize wheel is nothing but a token achievement for completion of the level WHICH SHOULD BE REWARDING IN ITSELF NOT THE WHEEL.

i will admit that mini mist tanks wouldn't be bad to see on a very rare occasion but the crown rewards are too high, tokens should be singles only if anything, and accessories defy the purpose of the lockboxes in the first place

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 02:53

Master-Of

You can also get materials from the prize wheel

You can also get materials from the prize wheel and some materials can be sold for more than 25 crowns.

Also, the whole party seems to get the crowns from the prize wheel (e.g. if 4 players win 25 crowns, everyone gets 100 crowns). However, i can be mistaken here, it's hard to analyze for me.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 05:14

Niichi

Now, obviously as a player

Now, obviously as a player I'm not going to exactly say no to more free stuff, but I would argue against the suggestion that players find the non-lockbox prizes worthless. 25 crowns on its own doesn't seem like much, but that's 25 crowns you weren't getting before and you haven't had to do anything other than finish a level, which you would be doing anyway. Full health when you've just had your butt kicked by fiends is a welcome boon for the next level. Or having it hand you a health capsule is certainly nice. And yes, high level mats exist in there too.

Of course some prizes you get will be pretty worthless, like receiving health when you're going to Basil or an Ecto Drop to add to the hundreds you likely already have. But I feel that is the point - to include stuff that really is outright worthless.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 07:26

Cherubrock

there have been so many games

there have been so many games where I beat vanaduke.../ and then on the prize wheel i get...

- a heart
- a vial
- a capsule

all of these are completely pointless when you make it to the core.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 08:33

Evilnut

@Desouler

"Also, the whole party seems to get the crowns from the prize wheel (e.g. if 4 players win 25 crowns, everyone gets 100 crowns). However, i can be mistaken here, it's hard to analyze for me."

Prize wheel seems to be separately done for each player. I've compared notes with my guild mates when it was first released. Sometimes you get the same stuff (e.g. 4x10 crowns), but sometimes you can get different ones (3x10 crowns, 1 gel drop).

But you may get lucky too - two guild mates and I each got a lockbox on the same level on T3.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 12:15

Driggan

"i said it once i'll say it

"i said it once i'll say it again, the prize wheel is nothing but a token achievement for completion of the level WHICH SHOULD BE REWARDING IN ITSELF NOT THE WHEEL."

Why can't they both be rewarding? Honestly, the Prize Wheel is currently a useless mechanic and, in a game as simple as Spiral Knights, there simply shouldn't be any useless mechanics. It makes the game look unpolished.

The crown rewards are not 'high' at all, considering it costs 600 crowns worth of energy to even see the prize wheel. It's only high if it's true that the entire party gets the crowns when one person wins, which should be changed IMO. The tokens and higher crown prizes should all be rare, much like lockboxes (which I have yet to win).

I was thinking accessories that wouldn't be found in lockboxes, as a sort of incentive to reroll your wheel. Either that, or the occasional and *VERY* rare silver key.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 13:03

Madadder

Honestly, the Prize Wheel is

Honestly, the Prize Wheel is currently a useless mechanic

it's purpose is to cycle lockboxes into the system, nothing more

everything else is you wanting to cheat the system, which OOO won't do, you need to look at the big picture

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 14:13

Heavy-Duty

...

The Prize Wheel is NOT a tool to administer riches among players, even if it is a little bit of crowns. It is never supposed to be a big help and the wheel does not care if you have full HP, the vial it gives you is useless, or you are incredibly poor. The game itself does not care for the individual, but the mass of players (another reason for no lag handicaps), whilst the wheel of uselessness is MEANT to be a wheel of uselessness until you get your favorite vial, a worthy material, or a lockbox, which all are able to get in the current wheel. Be thankful for what you get and earn your way to the hundred crowns while playing, not as a random freebie, which the wheel already gives out. Lucky players could even get Mod Calibrators (Something I got a few weeks ago), but otherwise, just try to EARN stuff. OH and watch out for that Chromalisk!

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 15:56

#10

Driggan

"it's purpose is to cycle

"it's purpose is to cycle lockboxes into the system, nothing more

everything else is you wanting to cheat the system, which OOO won't do, you need to look at the big picture"

Clearly they meant it to be more than that, since they bothered to make it a "Wheel" at all with multiple prizes. It's by failure of mechanics alone that the wheel is rendered useless for anything but lockboxes. And please, it's hardly "cheating the system" to want to change a useless mechanic they put wasted work into.

And who said anything about administering 'riches' to anyone? Who are you to decide it is not supposed to help? Even if you got your 'favorite vial' (honestly, nobody cares much about anything but health capsules and remedy pills) you probably wouldn't have space for it. I have yet to see a 'worthy' material pop up, though I've gotten somewhere around 10 brass bolts and grave dusts.

I'm not going to be 'thankful' for a crappy mechanic, this isn't some god or whatever granting providence.

It's in the game, OOO meant for, and worked for, it to be there, and it currently has no purpose other than lockboxes. I have never gotten anything useful from the Prize Wheel other than paltry amounts of crowns or hearts. So I am NEVER excited by the Prize Wheel. Gambling is supposed to be exciting (moreso if you have something to lose), that's why casinos make so much money.

This is a faulty mechanic that needs fixing.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 16:10

#11

Heavy-Duty

...

WORK FOR IT. It's not a gambling system, it's a very tiny insignificant extra you get for completing a level (useless unless you WANT a vial or bit of crowns). just be happy you got extra, even if it IS insignificant! They're nto going to give you a billion crowns for nothing! It doesn't waste anything in the game besides one second after heat has been added to your items! It's suckish at NO EXPENSE. Be "thankful" for whatever you get. At least it doesn't take money from you. It COULD EASILY be worse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you don't lose a thing, btu u get a tiny something for nothing. "gives you 5 crowns!' 'BOO! I want 150! This game sucks for the game wheel because it would not give me something useful'" TOO BAD!! U LOSE NOTHING!

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 16:22

#12

Driggan

"WORK FOR IT. It's not a

"WORK FOR IT. It's not a gambling system, it's a very tiny insignificant extra you get for completing a level (useless unless you WANT a vial or bit of crowns). just be happy you got extra, even if it IS insignificant! They're nto going to give you a billion crowns for nothing! It doesn't waste anything in the game besides one second after heat has been added to your items! It's suckish at NO EXPENSE. Be "thankful" for whatever you get. At least it doesn't take money from you. It COULD EASILY be worse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you don't lose a thing, btu u get a tiny something for nothing. "gives you 5 crowns!' 'BOO! I want 150! This game sucks for the game wheel because it would not give me something useful'" TOO BAD!! U LOSE NOTHING!"

Anger issues much? You seem to be making my point, while at the same time missing it completely.

You are taking the "OOO works in mysterious ways" approach, like they're some kinda wrathful god that may strike and take away my monies. They're obviously not, they are a game company who should be interested in the entertainment of the players. Every time I get to a new gate I'm reminded just how boring this Prize Wheel is.

Maybe it's not how you like it, but when I play games I am trying to have fun. The prizes I suggest are only more substantial in size because it gives the Wheel meaning, making it more fun. The ability to reroll your prize would be similarly fun.

You're being very silly in the defense of such an 'insignificant extra'.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 16:27

#13

Master-Of

@Evilnut

You got me wrong. What I mean is:

Alice, Bob and you are in a party and the price wheel spins.

Alice wins a Bushy Tail.
Bob wins 10 crowns.
You win 25 crowns.

Alice gets a Bushy Tail and 35 crowns (10 crowns from Bobs price and 25 crowns from your price).
Bob gets 35 crowns (10 from his price and 25 crowns from your price).
You get 35 crowns (10 crowns from Bobs price and 25 crowns from your price).

Thats how it seems to me, but like I said: It's hard to keep track; so I may be mistaken here.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 16:29

#14

Heavy-Duty

...okay....

Look, something's better than nothing. Just be happy what you get. A game is a game, and apparently OOO is toying with it in whatever ways it wants. I highly doubt they'll remove it. Larger prizes take the meaning of working harder away, like if we put the 250 crowns in perspective, we could get 1k with minimal work to get to the other side. I just wanna dodge the economic aspect by putting the 'thankful" and 'work' values into this. Just work, work, work to get the stuff. You win a little. That's enough to keep you trying to plow down entire hordes to scratch out a few crowns. More crowns lead to higher CR4CE prices because more generated crowns need to balance CE economically, whereas more CE in game generated by purchase drops CR4CE prices because the price for Energy has dropped due to more being in the game. More crowns means mroe market inflation. There's a summary.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 18:03

#15

Marazo

Meh

Im sorta starting to like the prize wheel now that i just got a mod calibrator from it. a while ago i also got my first lockbox....ok so after what? 2-4 weeks of levels and THEN i get ONE lockbox!? Anyway new stuff would be cool but, the way it is fine with me.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 21:11

#16

Starlinvf

@Driggan: The wheel is the

@Driggan: The wheel is the application psychology to help shape the response on how lockbox distribution. Traditionally they could had done this using drop tables for the monsters. But the method had an inherent problem with rarity, leading to increased soloing or even in-fighting in parties over it. There is also issues with monster heavy levels having increased chances and incentivise farming those levels even further.

Now its hard to know which idea came first... the prize wheel or the decision to have it at the end of a level, but reasons behind them are pretty obvious. The Prize wheel, while very gimmicky, keeps the distribution a matter of chance but turns the process into a mini-game (people like games). Rather then give a player nothing when they "lose", they receive a consolation prize of relatively low value without upsetting the rest of the game. I still think they made a big mistake by adding crowns into the list, but out of every possible award, its the one players would enjoy getting the most. Having it occur at the end of a level means there is NO optimal strategy to obtaining lock boxes in the wild, so players will simply continue to do runs as they always have.

End result... Lock boxes enter the system without players having to change any of they're activities. On top of that, we get extra crowns/mats on a frequency low enough so it doesn't influence the player markets. Its basically a win/win for us.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 21:24

#17

Electrodoom

@heavy-duty

um, by the the way Heavy-duty, Your pic shows that your obviously a noobie, so you probably don't know that it gets pretty hard when you get to higher tiers. I usually get around 300 crowns per level, and lose about 100 energy, get smashed by retrodes laser, and my reward? A heart. Yay.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 21:39

#18

Marazo

hey electro, fellow guildie!

hey electro, fellow guildie! Btw man, where have you been, ultimate ironclaw munitions factory? T 3 isnt that hard, just gotta have the right gear (ah hem, 5*) You should try FSC with me, once you get the hang of it and you know the place like the back of ur hand, its easy (although the final room is harder due to no more wall hacking...:(.....also if we do do FSC i wanna do it some other people...i feel insecure without some good teamates.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:03

#19

Heavy-Duty

@electrodoom

My PIC is noobie. I'm a T3 knight. I like that pic cuz it's my noob armor- the only set the forum avatars are able to show that's comparable to my arsenal. And oddly enough I make at least 300 crowns in a T1 area :D Dont judge mah book cover/ avatar. I know how you feels getting punk'd by electrodes. I hate them very much. Now my noob armor is Samurai, so it's not even accurate anymore (For samurai, look at the right fig in the accessory update pic)

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 23:33

#20

Epic-Girl

yup

I think it is right to inprove the prize wheel, cos i wait for the wheel and i get 5 crowns a lot. WOW! thats so much....!

That's c**p. It should be improved.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 23:43

#21

Master-Of

Saphirality, so you mean 5

Saphirality, so you mean 5 crowns is not a proper compensation for waiting one or two seconds. I think this demands for a vote :P

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 08:45

#22

Knight-Solaire

My 2 Crowns:

@ Electrodoom
Erm... the fact that you spend 100 energy on one T3 level shows that you're obviously a noobie. You can do all of Strat 5, FSC, and the Vana fight for 100 energy, even with all 4* gear and a team of all randoms.

@TC
Did you complain before the prize wheel was added? No? Then why start now? See above posts for the reasons why it's in game; I just think it's funny that you get something for literally no extra work/cost than before it was implemented, then complain it isn't enough.

My 2 crowns? The wheel should be taken out completely and lockboxes should be distributed some other way. Not because I don't like it (on the contrary, I'm a huge fan of the wheel), but because I'm tired of listening to people like the TC whine about free stuff.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 17:58

#23

Kickthebucket

delete vials (and maybe

delete vials (and maybe pills) all i ask

and please put in tier based mats, i got a GRAVE SOIL!!!! in T3 who in gods name even NEEDS a grave soil :D i can fill my grave with them and then some

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 20:57

#24

Electrodoom

Tlachtli I don't like being

Tlachtli I don't like being called a noobie as a insult, so don't do that. Oh yeah, if your gonna say "But you called Heavy-Duty a noobie!" I did but not as a insult. When I said it, I meant beginner. Also I was exagerating when I said 100 energy. I usually use 30. I'm also tier two (Probably because I don't waste the day on a MMO,) If you have anything else negative to say, I don't want to hear it. Sorry for calling you a noobie, Heavy-Duty. Oh Marazo, long time no see! I was thinking we could post a topic for all of the cyber initiative to arrange meetings and stuff.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 23:16

#25

Master-Of

lol, Electrodoom is noob XD

Fri, 10/28/2011 - 04:20

#26

Shidara

Prize Wheel?

Think about it this way:
There was a time when there were no Prize Wheels.

Moral:
Be happy with what extra rewards you get for completing a level. It wasn't always like this.

Fri, 10/28/2011 - 19:51

#27

Electrodoom

@ Desouler and Shidara

"Lol" your a "Noob" Because you can't even talk in complete sentences, and you waste your time insulting people instead of actually saying stuff revelent to the topic.

Shidara: Those extra rewards are so small, you can get 5 times the exact same a mount from killing any monster, so it's pretty much pointless, which means the developers have just wasted their time.

Fri, 10/28/2011 - 19:54

#28

Madadder

Those extra rewards are so

Those extra rewards are so small, you can get 5 times the exact same a mount from killing any monster, so it's pretty much pointless, which means the developers have just wasted their time.

something is better than nothing doesnt matter how small... its not a waste of time the prize wheel distributes lockboxes that's it's purpose

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 07:50

#29

Ghret

The whole purpose of being

The whole purpose of being for the Prize Wheel is to distribute Lockboxes. Everything else is cream, regardless of the quality of the cream.
Make of that what you will.

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 08:48

#30

Neinhart

Too late, but how about...

I'm too late to join the fray, but how about adding a free paid elevator ride to the prize wheel? (it will be quite rare of course, just throwing it out there guys)

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 21:33

#31

Nechrome

the game trolls me with the

the game trolls me with the wheel. today, i almost got the lockbox twice, but at the last second, the wheel seemed to get a burst of speed and gave me a heart, which was directly after the box.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 07:45

#32

Master-Of

@Electrodoom: wat? i am not

@Electrodoom: wat? i am not noob, i am super oldfag. GTFO :P

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 08:47

#33

Kentard

Hmm..

If anything I'd push for a better crown/item drop rate in the level itself rather than rely on a Prize Wheel to dish out better rewards. And in any case, as a casual gamer who doesn't spend any actually currency on purchasing CE or packs, I'm honestly not too concerned about the stuff it dishes out - ok, maybe except for the heart (which does save me a lot of trouble in reviving at later tiers) and the occasional (and I do mean occasional) Iron Lockbox. But really, I'm just happy that it does give out stuff - what little there is.
I'm actually quite surprised nobody requested for a Vog Cap from the Prize Wheel, but at the rate you guys are going, I won't be surprised if someone eventually does. OOO specifically left the prizes as they are for a reason - so that there is no 'easy way'.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 09:58

#34

Iaena

The prize wheel is meant for

The prize wheel is meant for getting lockboxes into SK -- that is really all it is for.

People get lockboxes, so obviously the prize wheel works for it's intended purpose.

I don't care what I get from it. Though I have received a Mod Calibrator, Bushy Tails and other high level mats. And as Niichi said, I love getting the occasional useful health boost or pill, or curse vial.

Possibly the best thing is the entertainment my friends and I have on voice chat competing for who got the least worthwhile prize...

"25 crowns"
"10 crowns"
"5 crowns"
"...ecto drop"

The ecto drop wins!

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 12:16

#35

Knight-Solaire

@Iaena That reminds me of the

@Iaena
That reminds me of the Charlie Brown Halloween episode. "...I got a rock."

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 18:30

#36

Soleres

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Improved Prize Wheel