@Dukesky - you didn't make it to the end of my post (yes I agree that current keys should be x4 with the update)
Generally now people don't solo Shadow lairs because the payout isn't worth it solo - it is worth it if you go in a group. In which case you're splitting the cost anyway and only paying 450CE. So the payout wouldn't have to change at all because it would be the same 450CE to payout ratio.
Players who have already used keys would rage...players who have keys would have to do as Dukesky said.
I've never counted, but I think Shadow Lairs give a pretty massive amount of crowns. Something like 8k-12k per stage (Not including boss obviously). At best, 36,000 Crowns per person. Which equals like 500 CE.
Someone please correct me if Shadow Lair's crown output isn't that amount.
Of course, that's gross gain. With typical ressurecting costs, you don't make much.
~Sev
That payout would be for SFSC I presume - Shadow Snarby for example is only two levels so the payout is much less.
But even at that high payout without dieing your still only at break even (including elevator costs) crown wise. So yes while this would make soloing just as profitable as going in a full group it would not make it any more profitable than it can already be. And that's not including how much harder soloing it is and the extra reviving costs it entails. It's also not really anymore profitable than a regular Vana run or Jelly King run.
Let me make the profitability more clear:
(presume elevator pass and no deaths up front)
1. Let's say you go in a full group (as most people do now). You split the cost and pay 450CE up front. You make 36,000 cr in the run.
2. Now let's say you go solo in the current system. You pay 1800CE up front. You make 36,000 cr in the run.
3. You go solo per my suggestion. You pay 450CE up front. You make 36,000 cr in the run.
One and Three have equal cost to payout ratios while Two is a significantly more cost.
So my suggestion would make soloing as(equal) profitable as group runs but not more so. (add deaths and 3 is probably a little less profitable)
I don't care for this idea, as Severage said Players who already used keys (especially those who used them to solo before the change) would rage and it makes no mention of how Shadow Key drops from iron lockboxes would be changed.
Would you get 4 instead of the 1 with the same rarity?
Would their rarity instead be dropped and turn them into semi-booby prizes due to the fact that you're using keys worth 750 CE to get keys worth 450 CE?
Would they be removed from the list possible items you can get from a lockbox if they haven't been already?
I don't really think that the fact that people might rage is a good counter argument. People might rage at any change OOO might make but to not change anything because of that possibility seems counter productive.
The question stands - is this a better implementation then the current system? If it's better then in the long run players will benefit. And I think you'll find that more people would welcome a change in pricing then would be against it. Also people are used to paying more to be the first to do something (just look at the price decrease on rare accessories).
And I'm pretty sure shadow keys don't drop anymore from lock boxes.
Lol, another topic, "i want something but well, i have to pay for it, please make it free".
Changing it from 1800 to 450? 75% discount? You mad?
Spiral knights is team game, if you plan on playing solo, its your problem, you do it at your own risk where its included dying alone or paying more CE.
Besides your argument that its for ppl who solo SL to make it cheaper.... they want to go solo, they should deal with it.
My suggestion is not just for solo. I play with only a small group of people or I play in PUGs. 1800CE is a deterrent for me because I'll never waste that on a PUG group and when only one or two of my friends are online ( most of the time ) I don't want to spend 1800CE for just two of us. I only use solo in my profitability example to show the extreme example - 2 and 3 person groups are implied to have the same profitability ratio.
Spiral Knights is not implicitly a team game. There are all kinds of players and you'll find a lot of people don't usually run in full groups - especially at the teir 3 level.
@Asukalanforum I'm not sure you read my OP - I'm not asking for a 75% discount. For a team of 4 the price would stay exactly the same (4*450 = 1800). But many people have asked for a drop in price to open the Shadow Lairs to more people - my suggestion is to instead change the system in such a way that each person is responsible for their own traveling cost regardless of party size and at the same time remove a major deterrent for many players wanting to try the shadow lairs. I think there is a huge untapped market of people who want to do shadow lairs but can't get 4 people together - this would allow OOO to tap into that market (and make money doing so) without affecting the price of the current target market of 4 player groups.
Also the fact that OOO has run promotional pricing for Shadow Keys fairly regularly seems to suggest that the price is still being actively thought about and that they haven't quite locked in on the optimal pricing.
think about such trolls as mister A
C: Ok, I put my shadow key. You're next, D
D: Ok I did it. c'mon B
B: Sure thing. here we go
A: Lol I'm not going to shadow lairs after all!
B: Lol so we will go without you. Leader, kick him.
A: I am the leader lol (trololololo x2)
I have been thinking about the dynamics of how this would work. I think it would have to use a mechanism similar to the current CE one. For example a normal elevator is able to determine whether or not someone has enough CE in order to make the trip and even prompts the party to let them know that someone doesn't have enough.
In a similar way when the party steps on the elevator it would check for shadow keys from each party member and subtract them in a similar way to how CE is automatically subtracted now. And if someone doesn't have a key it could prompt the other players to just continue on without them, present an option for someone to use their key for the person without one, or have an option for the person that doesn't have one to buy one.
All these mechanics already exist for CE on regular elevators. The shadow entry elevators would just have to be updated to do the same for shadow keys.
Perhaps 3 people have 1 Shadow Key each, the 4th person doesn't buy one, and they want a full party? There would have to be a "Don't go down after all" prompt if someone didn't have one...
Just listing a possibility.
~Sev
4 people buy one and you can do all the shadow lairs
If theres 4 ppl...if therez 3 ppl.....If if if... Just make TWO types of keys: 1) -PARTY shadow lairs key (1800ce) 2) - SOLO shadow lairs key (450 ce) . PSLK will be droppable from Iron LB. Solo SLK will not. Fus Ro Dah! Im genious!
@Triplescrew Ha. I like it - though it might get confusing with more than one kind of Shadow key.
@Severage Your right - and I like your idea to fix it. I wonder what do parties do now in these kind of situations though? Of course in CE situations there currently is an energy indicator so that everyone can see whether or not you have enough energy to make the next elevator. Maybe add a shadow key indicator when you're in the Shadow lobby so that people can see before getting on a shadow elevator whether or not everybody already bought a key. The shadow key salesman is already there anyway so there should be no problem in buying one.
I haven't played a Shadow Lair yet, so I don't know their payout
(would their loot have to be lowered since there'd be more players soloing Shadow Lairs?)
If this happened: Players with old Shadow Keys ought to receive x4 keys for every unused one they have.