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Is Freeze Actually Underpowered? (Potential Guide)

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Jue, 05/17/2012 - 18:57
Imagen de Pokenuevo
Pokenuevo

I've heard talk that Freeze is one of the weakest, if not the weakest status ailment. I'd like to argue about the drawings of freeze, and if you feel I can do it, I would submit a short guide on using Freeze to the wiki (not saying that I'm an expert or anything). This is a short excerpt if I'd do so.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Pros about Freeze:
-Enemy can't move at all
-Enemy can only attack in one direction
-Has a possibility of small elemental damage when thawing
-Good timer for those affected
-Perfect Crowd Control

Cons:
-Does little damage, if any (depending on the situation)
-Is countered by the famous Skolver a little bit, in Lockdown
-Can lock an enemy, blocking your path if in a corner
-No Knockback
-No Shield Bump
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Freeze vs Shock
These 2 statuses are both crowd control, while freeze doing that job more efficiently than shock. Shock offers crowd control as well as damage. Freeze offers crowd control with damage only on the thaw. They have different uses, making one not better than the other. Freeze is just more efficient at controlling enemies. Fire is most efficient at damaging enemies. Shock is the nice hybrid that one may use.
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Tactics:
-The "Rinse and Repeat" (Preferable to have a CTR UV or Trinket)
This can be done with any freezing weapon, but is probably more helpful with the Glacius. The following description will be of the Glacius, but is viable with all weapons. First, charge up the sword and launch it on the enemy. Now the enemy is completely locked and can not do anything to you, nor move. Then, charge up your sword again, and launch on the enemy once again. Almost always, that enemy shall remain in place. Repeat the process again until they die, whether in Lockdown or in the Clockworks. (Note: This works against Skolvers in Lockdown if you can time it)

-Status Ailment Heaven
Freeze is a great crowd control, allowing for other players to dish out damage. However, one can also fuse status ailments and damage together in order to really fight smartly. (An example of this within the FSC, which I actually used today: I was in a party of 3. We ran into a group of slag walkers, so I charged up my Glacius and froze almost all of them [about 10 of them]. Then, while they were frozen, my teammate took out his Voltedge and used its charge. The enemies were now much weaker, still controlled by the previous shock. Finally, my other teammate took out his Combuster for heavy damage with fire and got rid of the slags quickly. ) This can be done in many ways, with swords, guns, and bombs.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Items with freeze:
Iceburst Brandish and its predecessors
The Iceburst Brandish line, through its charge
Frost Gun
Cryotech Alchemer and its predecessors
Cold Snap
Freezing Vaporizer and its predecessors
Grintovec and its predecessors
Sealed Sword's charge attack (rarely)
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
With a party:
People might think of freeze as annoying, and if used wrong, it very well is. Swordsmans, not using a brandish or sealed sword charge, might find freeze troubling varying on the person. It gives them an easier monster to strike, but it still could be bothersome if the monsters are in a way that their charge/s could become useless. In terms of gunners, freeze is perfect. It gives a steady enemy that is just standing there. No aim is really needed since the target is moving. When it comes to bombers, this status could be very helpful or detrimental. If someone freezes all the enemies in one area. Bombers have a really easy time, and they can be very effective. However, if enemies are frozen in a large span, then bombers can't attack a clump of enemies at once.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Recommended areas of use:
-FSC
-IMF
-Arenas
-The Gauntlet
-Lockdown
-Undead Areas
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
What do you think?

Jue, 05/17/2012 - 19:10
#1
Imagen de Imperialstriker
Imperialstriker
~

I feel like Rinse and Repeat would best be done with Shivermist Buster and a gunslinger partner. No movement and easy alchemer ricochet aiming.

Jue, 05/17/2012 - 19:24
#2
Imagen de Pokenuevo
Pokenuevo
@Imperialstriker

Yeah, I said that it's viable with all of the weapons (Glacius was just an example), but if you feel like that could really help those bombers and gunners, then I shall add it.

Jue, 05/17/2012 - 19:30
#3
Imagen de Imperialstriker
Imperialstriker
~

Oh nvm... I was assuming you were saying it was only most viable with Glacius.

Btw, Hail Driver ftw.

Jue, 05/17/2012 - 19:33
#4
Imagen de Pokenuevo
Pokenuevo
No problems

Hail Driver is nice =3
I admit I don't have as much experience with it, so if someone with the gun wants to add some particular ideas as well...?

Jue, 05/17/2012 - 21:04
#5
Imagen de Traevelliath
Traevelliath
...

Actually, Freeze is the most dangerous status in Lockdown. Strikers rely on speed to counter their low health. Rob them of speed, and they are easy kills. People don't use Shiver because Skolver armor is so popular. However, pull out a Shiver against a team of Vogs or Half-breeds, and you can completely wreck them.

Jue, 05/17/2012 - 21:11
#6
Imagen de Rangerwillx
Rangerwillx

Freeze? Good in FSC?
Balderdash.

Jue, 05/17/2012 - 21:24
#7
Imagen de Jaroche
Jaroche
* Freeze does damage only at

* Freeze does damage only at defrost, while shock and fire deals continual damage.
* Freeze is annoying for parties carrying an Electron Vortex, as the later is unable to break the ice.
* Freeze is a joke at Lockdown compared to a Strong Shock, any hit will break the enemy's ice, while Shock keeps them locked and interrupting their attacks. This is also true at PvE, or why people takes Voltedge/storm driver/VT for FSC instead of freeze status weapons.

Shock > Freeze.

Jue, 05/17/2012 - 22:59
#8
Imagen de Fradow
Fradow
@OP you forgot the main cons

@OP you forgot the main cons of freeze which makes it really hated by heavy swords user : no knockback (meaning they will get hit because the mob stay close). Also, no shield bump.

@Traevelliath yeah, but again most strikers use Skolver or Skolver+Snarby to counter that, making a Shiver close to useless there.

Also agree with Rangerwill and Jaroche. In FSC, the only reason to have Freeze is for Vanaduke, to use the popular Shiver+Blitz combo. Anywhere else, it's a hindrance and you are better off using Shock, which is WAY more effective.

And using a freeze in arenas is VERY dangerous because of the blocking property of freeze.

Vie, 05/18/2012 - 02:57
#9
Imagen de Alice-In-Pyroland
Alice-In-Pyroland
Freeze is a ridiculously

Freeze is a ridiculously powerful status if your party primarily consists of Gunslingers carrying Autogun line weapons; namely Blitz Needle. They have crazy single target dps if their enemies aren't able to move around, and gunners in general are not affected by freeze removing the knockback from incapacitated targets. You're also less likely to trap gunners when using it since they tend to attack from just outside the immediate 'front line'. I also don't feel the need to explain why it obviously works wonders against Vanaduke if your party are equipped with Blitz Needles.

Freeze is an absolutely terrible status if your party primarily consists of swordsmen equipped with weapons that rely on their knockback. Swordsmen often rely on their knockback and shield bumping to keep mobs from hitting them while maintaining a constant dps on their enemy, and the vast majority of good swordsmen will tell you that spamming charge attacks constantly is not a very effective tactic and one of the big reasons the benefits of freeze are less prominent for a swordsman than they are for a gunner. You can easily trap a swordsman amidst a field of frozen enemies (Less likely if you're not using Shivermist, but still) and get them killed because they can neither knock enemies away from them, or reliably shield if they're using more offensively oriented shields (Which most good swordsman will).

Freeze is generally a pointless status if your party primarily consists of bombers, since being able to stack multiple damaging status effects in conjunction with vortex and large aoe dps bombs renders just about all the benefits of freeze obsolete. That being said it doesn't really negatively impact bombers either, outside of making enemy movement unpredictable if AoA/VV kiting.

For all of the above reasons, if your party consists of a mixture of different players utilizing all sorts of different gear, the vast majority of the time freeze is generally a non-beneficial status. It causes more harm than it does good, and especially for bombers there are much better alternatives such as vortex, or any of the other status bombs besides Stagger Storm. Bear in mind however that this does not mean that all freeze-inducing weapons are bad. The vast majority of them have such a limited aoe that they're unlikely to actually cause a noticeable impact on your team. In many situations the only weapon most of this will apply to is Shivermist, with weapons such as a Glacius or Hail Driver you can easily avoid utilizing them in situations in which it will disrupt your team, and instead use them when you're alone or dealing with stragglers or whatever.

Vie, 05/18/2012 - 12:18
#10
Imagen de Shutupnerds
Shutupnerds
Feh.

As a bomber, I think fire is weaker than freeze, since we only have access to the weak version of status effects. Stratum six, and ash of agni is only doing 60-80 damage every 2 seconds once they walk outside of the bomb. Youd need to constantly drop AoA in order for the fire to be fast enough to whittle down enemies at a decent rate, and hopefully hit a few enemies with the initial elemental burst. In the mean time, I could be doing something else like dropping a couple RSS's or dark retributions, depending on the enemy. Only good thing I see about AoA is that your team mates dont have to adjust their play style to compensate for enemies resisting knockback/being locked up and such.

Freeze though? Differences between weak and strong freeze dont matter to us, as all we want from shivermist is to be able to continuously lock up a group of enemies, making them sitting targets for party members. Weak freeze lasts pretty long when shiver wears off anyways. The only problem I can see is trapping a party member in a corner with frozen enemies, and even then a good player would avoid getting into this situation in the first place. Sure, swords that rely on knockback could be difficult to use, but freeze gives these players time to use their charge attacks to rack up some damage anyways. (Im looking at you, sudaruska/DA/leviathan users)

Of course, things rarely ever go as intended, so I often mind myself just forgoing using any type of alchemical haze bomb in favor of DPS.

Vie, 05/18/2012 - 12:36
#11
Imagen de Juances
Juances
~

Ironically, if it wasnt for skolvers, LD would be more annoying. It's either guardian/polaris rush or be stuck forever by a single shiverer.

Vie, 05/18/2012 - 12:42
#12
Imagen de Fradow
Fradow
"Sure, swords that rely on

"Sure, swords that rely on knockback could be difficult to use, but freeze gives these players time to use their charge attacks to rack up some damage anyways."

You may want to note that charge attacks do less dps than normal attacks for most weapons. That includes Sudaraska and DA, especially for DA when mob are frozen, as they will not ride the holo-blades.

Also, I don't agree with AoA being weak. You can alternate it with another status (yeah, I'm talking about Shock here) to do more dps. You'll need quite a few mobs for it to be more effective than just a sword or a gun, but then it is VERY effective. Too bad the end-game boss is fire resistant and there are not that much places with a lot of mobs later on. Waiting for those danger missions Nick talked about ...

Also, not hindering teammates is a BIG plus in my eyes. Like, almost essential. But it may be just me ....

Vie, 05/18/2012 - 13:15
#13
Imagen de Halandin
Halandin
What about a vortex+freeze

What about a vortex+freeze combo, so you could gather a bunch of monsters then hold them in place so the final explosion doesn't scatter them? I don't know how well this would work, sort of a hypothesis.

Vie, 05/18/2012 - 17:35
#14
Imagen de Pokenuevo
Pokenuevo
When I get the chance

I'll add some major revisions, based on comments when I get the chance later :)

Sáb, 05/19/2012 - 10:43
#15
Imagen de Doctorspacebar
Doctorspacebar
SUNSHAAAAAAAAARDS

Freeze is better for lockdown. Everybody bring freeze. Shock does nothing, don't bring Shock.

...Please?

(This has been a Mad Bomber's desperate attempt to avoid being Shocked.)

@Juances: Bombastic Recon laughs at your puny Shivermist.

Sáb, 05/19/2012 - 16:08
#16
Imagen de Pokenuevo
Pokenuevo
I like Halandin's idea

I updated a little bit in the time I had.

Sáb, 05/19/2012 - 21:04
#17
Imagen de Trollingyou
Trollingyou
Hail Driver vs Storm Driver

Hail Driver: The one I prefer of the two. For PVE soloing it is wonderful. In a party it melds well into almost any party setup unless it involves shock or fire status. The trick is to aim at mobs that swordsmen with knockback swords are not targeting, so you won't freeze their mobs. You'll be protecting their back and dealing damage at the same time. With the charge, it's almost a guaranteed freeze on at least one mob. Once that mob is frozen, you can turn your attention to the unfrozen ones. If you take too long to kill the unfrozen ones the ice will thaw and deal damage.

For Lockdown, it is potentially devastating. If it wasn't for Skolver and the fact that your teammates are constantly attacking and may hit your frozen target (with a silversix no less) it would be better. There tends to be too much action to properly utilize the freeze, making it not the best choice for Lockdown.

Storm Driver: Similar to hail driver, except it deals shock (duh). Can deal damage to many mobs if they are crowded together and briefly stop them from doing anything. Easier to use of the two and will do well in solo or in a party. The only downside is that the crowd control is not as strong, the freeze will save you in some situations where the shock will not.

For Lockdown, it is immensely more useful than hail driver, since almost no one stats for shock resist. Not to mention one shock from storm driver can mean death. You can sneak a shot on an unsuspecting swordsman targeting a teammate and turn the tides of a fight. A running striker can be stopped in their tracks with a shock. Recon's shield will break if they take a zap while invisible. It will lower a guardian's shield. It is the bane of bombers everywhere (Sorry Doctorspacebar XD). To top it off, it will not hinder your teammates. Shock is the clear winner for Lockdown.

My two cents on these.

TL;DR - Freeze is harder to use, but super effective when used right. Shock is easier to use and is clearly better for Lockdown.

Sáb, 05/19/2012 - 21:39
#18
Imagen de Pokenuevo
Pokenuevo
@Trollingyou

The Hail Driver ideas will be added, with your name in recognition.
Also, freeze not great in lockdown? I'm not so sure from before? ;) *Freezes you with my Glacius as you use your Hail Driver*

Sáb, 05/19/2012 - 22:03
#19
Imagen de Trollingyou
Trollingyou
@Pokenuevo

That's what I meant about "potentially devastating". XD

It often times does not happen that way unfortunately (or fortunately) due to reasons stated before. If the ice didn't break so easily I'd be using Hail Driver in Lockdown instead of Storm Driver.

Sáb, 05/19/2012 - 22:05
#20
Imagen de Imperialstriker
Imperialstriker
~

Wanna know the underlying reason why Freeze is considered underpowered?

It's a defensive, not offensive status.

The idea behind freeze is that you can basically immobilize a whole room or part of a room to give yourself breathing room and an easier, albeit extended, fight in an otherwise bad situation. The most exemplary model of this is Shivermist Buster, with its huge radius of mist and ability to literally lockdown entire arenas in a flash. Hail Driver is another model, its richochetting allows multitargeting and gives one the ability to slow a horde by picking off enemies and flash immobilizing pieces of the horde to buy time to kill.

However, most people do not recognize this because... well... this is an offensive oriented game. People have always said "this game awards offense more than it does defense."

Seeing as freeze is a defensive status designed to lockdown movement, its obviously overshadowed by its "offensive" cousins, shock and fire.

The thing about freeze is that it cannot be used with an offensive mentality. You'll simply fail due to its lack of damage and inability to even BE offensive.

Instead, one who uses a freezing weapon must go in with a very defensive mentality.

When one freezes, they must think instead of "Kill them all!", they should think "Let's shut this operation down."

To freeze, one must be defensive aggressive rather than damage oriented.

Anyone who uses that sort of mentality will have the highest capability with a freezing weapon.

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