Forums › English Language Forums › General › The Arsenal

Buscar

What T3 sword to get first?

25 respuestas [Último envío]
Sáb, 05/19/2012 - 16:29
Imagen de Pelakas
Pelakas

As the title says, I need advice on what T3 sword I should upgrade first. Here's my current setup:

ash tail cap
ash tail coat
bristling buckler

nightblade
sealed sword
calibur (uv asi med)
snarble barb

antigua
pulsar
blaster
cryotech alchemer

freezing atomizer

I also have the recipes for the avenger, cryotech alchemer mkII, twisted targe, and dark thorn shield. After I upgrade up to the dark thorn shield, I'll have T3 clearance, but I was wondering which sword I should get to 5* first. I'm going sword/gunner build, going to upgrade to vog cub set. Once I'm T3, I'm planning on just farming whatever levels/missions pay out the most (whatever those are). For those who are currently T3, please make three suggestions:

a. assuming I'll have 2 slots, going sword/gun, with no trinket slots, which sword should I get first if I plan on doing T3 farming and just in general?
b. assuming I'll have 3 slots, sword/sword/gun, no trinket slots, which swords should I get (in order) for T3 farming
c. when I have 4 slots, would DA/BTB/Acheron/Polaris be a good setup? The trinket slots would probably be used to max out ASI. How useful is a shivermist lategame, in terms of soloing and party support?

If it helps, the gun slot will either probably be something on the polaris line or the freezing atomizer. Either case I'll have an elemental weapon on hand.
I think this is everything, hopefully I've given enough info for you guys to help me out. Thanks!

Sáb, 05/19/2012 - 16:41
#1
Imagen de Alynn
Alynn
a)Well, for now, definitely

a)
Well, for now, definitely upgrade that Calibur to Leviathan Blade. With its ASI med UV, it will make an awesome weapon to have. Considering you will only carry 2 weapons, a normal sword for all types of enemies is preferred.

Later, when you get Vog Cub set, upgrade your Sealed Sword to Divine Avenger.

b)
For 3 slots, get Divine Avenger, Barbarous Thorn Blade, and Argent Peacemaker/Polaris. Just make sure you have at least ASI med to boost the speed of DA before using it :)

c)
Yes, DA/BTB/Acheron/Polaris is very good. I would recommend the trinkets to be either dmg or CTR, considering you already have ASI VH from vog, and MAX ASI isnt going to make much difference.

d)
Shiver is good for parties ONLY if your party isnt full of bombers/hack-and-slash only swordies. With gunners and Sword charges, shiver can make many maps easier. Bomb spamming makes Shiver essentially useless, and close range swordies can get trapped/attacked by immobile enemies that they cant knock back. I would give it a 7/10 overall.

Sáb, 05/19/2012 - 17:16
#2
Imagen de Pelakas
Pelakas
@Alynn

Thanks for the input. For the DA/BTB/Polaris combo, how useful is that T3? Would I be missing out on the lack of shadow damage, and would I be disadvantaged if I didn't have ASI med? I would already have asi high from a full vog cub set, but I"m jw. I already have some knowledge of 2-swing sword technique (shield cancelling, etc).

Sáb, 05/19/2012 - 18:47
#3
Imagen de Alynn
Alynn
The DA/BTB/Polaris combo is

The DA/BTB/Polaris combo is very good in T3. Without any shadow dmg, the only enemies you would be dealing normal dmg to would be Slime and Gremlins. Slime can be taken out easily by DA/Polaris, so no problem there. Gremlins can be taken out by BTB, but takes some practice to do, since thwackers mobs tend to combo you/stun you when you get close to them, and it is easier if you had a Gran Faust (knock them back) or Acheron (attack them from a distance using the charge attack). But spamming the BTB charge also works, just a bit slower.

Without ASI med, you would put yourself at a disadvantage/risk when using DA. Shield Canceling without ASI is pretty slow, which im sure you have experienced already, and may get you hit. However, the disadvantage is not that significant, but I would definitely recommend you to get 1 piece of Vog just to be safe.

I was in the same position as you a long time ago, and this is what I did:

1. Ascended Calibur -> Leviathan Blade
2. KW Pulsar -> GW Pulsar
3. Ashtail Coat -> Vog Cub Coat
4. Sealed Sword -> Avenger
5. Ashtail Cap -> Vog Cub Cap

Using my T3 entry loadout (Ashtail set, Ascended Calibur, GW pulsar), I was able to solo FSC from D24-27 without any deaths pretty effectively (took around 40 min)

I put FSC farming as a priority when I was upgrading my gears, because once I can farm FSC, the rest of the gears can come faster.

Sáb, 05/19/2012 - 19:26
#4
Imagen de Pelakas
Pelakas
Ah I see. After you got all

Ah I see. After you got all your gear, how useful is the levi blade? I can't imagine it being too good when you have swords of every damage type, but I guess it would be good to have one incase you switched builds.

What's the payout on FSC? I've been doing JK runs to fund this, and so far I can make 2.3-3k cr in 20 minutes on 30 energy. It's meh, but it's gotten me pretty far. Also, I hear people talk about Vana and FSC as 2 different things, what's the difference, and what's more profitable?

Sáb, 05/19/2012 - 20:02
#5
Imagen de Alynn
Alynn
Well.......

Levi blade is very good for soloing, and I use it often in T3, even when I have all other dmg tpyes. Normal dmg does not equal bad. Plus, the charge decimates mobs when you are soloing. In parties, you have to be careful so that you dont fling stuff across the map at your team mates.

Payout of FSC (D24-28) is between 10-11kCR. This is because pre-Vana levels (D24-27) offers between 7-8kCR, and vanaduke himself, offers you 3kCR (if you use 30 tokens to get Ancient Plate items, and then sell them to vendors, you get 30kcr per piece, which equals 1cr per token. you generally get 3 tokens if you have played at least 3 previous levels (D25-D27))+ boxes at the end.

FSC=Firestorm Citadel, all the levels between D24 to D28 at its appropriate gate. FSC includes Vanaduke
Vana = Lord Vanaduke, the final boss of FSC

If people say "oh lets farm vana", then they mean lets do FSC from D24/25-28
If people say"Oh, lets farm FSC", then it may mean farm pre-vana levels (D24-27, boss excluded) OR do the entire FSC (D24-28, boss included)

not really the same, but not that different either. Depends on the person saying it.

If you want, you can add me ingame (Alynn) and I can take you there on regular basis

Also, it may interest you that my highest FSC payout was 259Kcr (got a Scary Skelly Suit AND a Graviton Vortex during 1 single run :D )

Sáb, 05/19/2012 - 21:48
#6
Imagen de Bopp
Bopp
disagree

I have a sword guide, which discusses swords in detail, including sword+gun setups. I recommend something like a piercing-sword-elemental-gun setup over a normal-sword-normal-gun setup. I'd recommend you upgrade your Nightblade, Snarble Barb, and Antigua (to AP) or Pulsar (to Polaris).

Sáb, 05/19/2012 - 23:36
#7
Atacii
Get an elemental sword for fsc.

Get FSC friendly gear first. So one piece of armor upgraded to vog and an elemental sword, then either blitz or shiver. I'd upgrade shield next, but after that, it doesn't really matter.

A normal sword is helpful for FSC, but not really useful anywhere else.

Having pure vog is kinda depressing. I would suggest upgrading the other piece of armor to snarby if you're able. Kats/devilites are the only enemies that pose any real threat, so it's a good idea for general pve too.

Shivermist is mostly garbage. Almost always a bad idea in general clockworks. In FSC it is useful for freeze-locking vana and slag guards, and placed once before stepping on most party buttons. Vortex does a better job for the latter though.

Dom, 05/20/2012 - 00:13
#8
Imagen de Pelakas
Pelakas
I know what I want...

...but I want advice on what order to get it in. I've already decided on my endgame loadout, but I wanted advice on what sword I should get first. So far, what I've gotten has made me lean more towards DA. Would this be a wise choice as my sole sword while I farm, or should I keep farming until I can afford 3 weapon slots and do avenger/dark thorn blade/polaris line?

Or should I upgrade my snarble barb (still 2*, no 3/4* recipes) first, then run 2 weapons (DTB/polaris line) while I farm, as per Bopp's suggestions? Keep in mind I would farm FSC to fund the rest of my gear. Bopp, I've read your guide and it's pretty good, and it's partly how I decided on my endgame setup. But I wanted some more personalized advice, given the lack of funds for me to do everything at once.

Dom, 05/20/2012 - 00:35
#9
Imagen de Pelakas
Pelakas
Gah didn't see Atacii's post

@Atacii "having pure vog is kinda depressing" - Elaborate please? I was planning on going full vog set, I do like a base asi vh. Bopp's guide also recommends a vog/skolver split. What are the pros/cons of going full vs. going split? The first 5* sword and armor set I get will be for crown farming, which looks to be FSC. Fire is a prevalent status effect there, so wouldn't having the full vog set give me the best protection there while I farmed? Also, I highly doubt I'll be able to go on shadow lair runs any time soon, so snarby armor is out of the picture, and I just don't see the uses for any of the defences of the skolver set, other than for LD, which I don't really play heavily.

I disagree a bit on shivermist being garbage. I'm told there's a noticeable difference between 4~5*, and my freezing atomizer really helps in certain situations, where I need to cc mobs. On any level with freezable mobs and I'm low on health I can just spam my bomb and let the freeze or my teammates kill them. It may just be that my bomb is uv ctr low, but I like it.

@Bopp "Skolver's damage bonus amounts to somewhere between two and six unique variants on each of your swords." - I'm not sure what this means. Do you mean that the combined skolver cap/coat damage increase is equal to 2-6 ticks on the low~max uv scale?

"Sworders should consider getting Ash Tail Coat/Cap, and then upgrading one piece to Vog Cub, and then upgrading the other to Skolver" - Why do you recommend this? Just for an asi/damage balance, or for something else?

Dom, 05/20/2012 - 03:52
#10
Imagen de Fradow
Fradow
If you intend to farm FSC,

If you intend to farm FSC, take a DA first, as it has bonus damage or neutral against everything there, except the few oilers/wolvers which are not much of a problem anyway. For FSC as well, full Vog is advised, for the fire resistance. Also, DA benefits a lot from Vog's ASI.

On Shivermist, I have to agree with Atacii. There was recently a thread on freeze, you can see a lot of arguments against it (including mine). The expanded area of 5* doesn't change much things. Though, if you want to farm Vanaduke, it's great to have the Shiver + Blitz Needle combo (which have the best time/difficulty ratio).

What Bopp meant that if you take DMG on your weapons instead of your armor/trinket, those DMG will be family specific, that's why you really want to have DMG bonus on your armor/trinket. ASI and CTR are universal whether you take them on your weapons, trinkets or armors.

Dom, 05/20/2012 - 06:49
#11
Imagen de Bopp
Bopp
sorry

Sorry; I didn't understand that you just wanted to know what to upgrade first. Here's what I'd say:

* sealed sword: upgrade this to DA soon, to handle undead and constructs, particularly for FSC
* snarble barb: upgrade this soon, to handle fiends and beasts
* nightblade: upgrade this slightly later, to handle gremlins and slimes
* calibur: never upgrade this (normal damage)

* pulsar: upgrade to Polaris, or upgrade Antigua to Argent
* antigua: if you have Polaris, then upgrade this to Sentenza
* cryotech alchemer: don't upgrade any time soon (some people like Hail Driver, but I find it hard to use)
* blaster: don't upgrade this any time soon (normal damage)

* freezing atomizer: Shivermist is extremely useful in last two fights of FSC; otherwise, use sparingly

Dom, 05/20/2012 - 06:53
#12
Imagen de Bopp
Bopp
defense

Pelakas, I can clarify what I say about armor in the guide.

I recommend a split armor set because it offers more diverse defense against damage and status. But other people disagree with me; they suggest that you just get Vog Cub, because it's most useful in FSC. That's reasonable, but I find it pathetic when players have gear optimized for FSC, and then perform really badly in other scenarios (e.g. fiend levels).

Vog Cub's ASI bonus is like having ASI: Medium on each of your swords. That's nice. But Skolver's damage bonus is like having Damage Bonus vs Slimes, Gremlins, Beasts, Fiends, Undead, and Constructs: Medium, on each of your swords. Depending on whether you use each sword on two monster families (just its vulnerable monsters) or all six monster families, this means somewhere between two and six useful bonuses on each of your swords.

Skolver's damage bonus also works against Vanaduke (who doesn't fit into any monster family) and against other players in PvP. You can't even get UVs on swords that give you these bonuses. This is another reason why a blanket "damage bonus against all targets" is so powerful.

Dom, 05/20/2012 - 07:22
#13
Imagen de Alynn
Alynn
@Bopp

I didnt recommend him a normal sword, normal gun setup. I recommended a normal sword, elemental gun setup. With your setup, a piercing sword, he is going toh ave a hard time with slimes and constructs, which he will need to spam ploaris for. I want people to avoid spamming polaris as much as possible, you now why, and having a normal sword helps. Levi is definitely NOT a bad weapon, and you can take on fiends with it, not that hard. Normal sword is needed if you only have 2 slots and 1 of them is a polaris.

Dom, 05/20/2012 - 07:35
#14
Imagen de Bopp
Bopp
still disagree

Alynn, sorry for misrepresenting your post. You and I agree that spamming Polaris is undesirable. I was hoping that he'd go for piercing sword with Argent Peacemaker. I strongly recommend that over normal sword with Argent Peacemaker. Piercing swords work insanely well against fiends and beasts (although the latter are not hard anymore); they also work surprisingly well against gremlins and undead. Cheers.

Dom, 05/20/2012 - 09:25
#15
Imagen de Pelakas
Pelakas
Alright, here's what I've decided...

...as my upgrade path:

bristling buckler > 3* > dts (for T3 clearance)
sealed sword > avenger
snarble barb > 3* > dtb
pulsar > 3* > gigawatt pulsar
weapon slot upgrade (so I have 3 slots)
full vog set
then upgrade all my 4* weapons to 5* whenever I get the recipes

Would this be viable? The order I do them in is more important atm, given that I probably won't be able to move between upgrades quickly. Thanks for all the help guys, it's been really useful.

Dom, 05/20/2012 - 10:17
#16
Imagen de Bopp
Bopp
yes, it's viable

Yes, that is viable. The order of upgrades doesn't matter much to me; I think that's why I haven't quite "gotten" what you've been asking about in this thread. Anyway, if I've helped at all, then that's great. Enjoy. :)

Dom, 05/20/2012 - 10:23
#17
Atacii
One suggestion. Ditch the

One suggestion. Ditch the barb and pick up a flourish. Not that the flourish is better, but you can buy the recipes for flourish in hall of heroes, which saves time or money.

About the snarby armor, while fire resistance is more important than shadow defense, elemental defense is almost useless in FSC. That and damage bonuses are always more desirable than attack speed increases. But if you aren't planning on doing sl's, full vog works fine.

Dom, 05/20/2012 - 10:49
#18
Imagen de Fradow
Fradow
"elemental defense is almost

"elemental defense is almost useless in FSC"

Fire tiles, shadow fire, flamethrowers and mask bullets do elemental. Compared to zombies and trojans, which do you think have the most chances to hit you ? Sure, there are a lot of zombies. That doesn't make them that much dangerous, and their attacks are slow (and you can see Trojans attacks coming too). I wouldn't be so fast to discard elemental defense in FSC.

"damage bonuses are always more desirable than attack speed increases" My DA and GF dare to disagree. I can do fine without any damage bonus. But without ASI, I'll have trouble using the second swing and even shield cancel fast enough the first swing. And you shouldn't charge that much those weapons, as normal swings can generally output more damage.

I have Snarby armor, but I wouldn't use it in FSC. It's simply outclassed by Vog there. Especially with BTS + damage trinkets (and on the top of that, a Med ASI on swords).

Dom, 05/20/2012 - 10:51
#19
Imagen de Bopp
Bopp
elemental defense not useless

The fire traps in FSC do elemental damage, and then inflict fire status, which goes on to do the special fire damage. Also, it appears that the fireballs in the Vanaduke mask phases do elemental damage. So elemental defense is definitely not useless in FSC.

I agree that damage bonuses are usually more valuable than attack speed bonuses, but I don't agree that they're always more valuable. Attack speed can help you shield and dodge rapidly, so it's good for defense, which is helpful to a novice. Furthermore, if the original poster is just starting to work on FSC, then he's probably not ready to do a Shadow Lair, so the merits of Snarbolax armor are probably not relevant.

Edit: Fradow beat me, and I agree with him. Like him, I prefer Vog Cub over Snarbolax armor in FSC.

Dom, 05/20/2012 - 13:44
#20
Imagen de Alynn
Alynn
Moo~~

Long live Vog :)

Dom, 05/20/2012 - 15:54
#21
Atacii
Floor hazards don't count. -.-

I said almost useless. The only exception is the mask's bullets. Zombies are easy, but mobs of them are still more dangerous than immobile hazards and flamethrowers.

But just to make sure we're on the same page, I was suggesting a Vog/Snarby hybrid. I myself use either Mask/Shadowsun or Volcanic Demo/Snarby.

ASI makes heavy swords easier/safer to use, but I still think ~14% more damage is better than being ~8% faster. Also, I only know a couple decent players who still use heavy swords. Once the OP gets better he will probably switch to a Brandish as most do, so I wouldn't suggest investing early on in trinkets and armor intended to support it.

Dom, 05/20/2012 - 16:14
#22
Imagen de Bopp
Bopp
floor hazards

If you're laggy, then floor hazards are serious. If a trojan slams you into a fire, then the fire is serious. This happens all the time to me, when my teammates lure a trojan into attacking me. But otherwise I agree about floor hazards.

Dom, 05/20/2012 - 16:24
#23
Imagen de Alynn
Alynn
@Atacii

Snarby is not an option. He doesnt have T3 clearance yet, and SL for him is too hard/expensive.

I believe there was an old thread that proves ASI give you more DPS, AND makes swords safer. Too lazy to dig it up right now, but will look for it later.

Fire protection in FSC for FSC beginners is a must. With Fire protection, fire hazards become a minor inconvenience. Without fire protection, it becomes a major set back.

Dom, 05/20/2012 - 16:32
#24
Imagen de Bopp
Bopp
not more DPS

"I believe there was an old thread that proves ASI give you more DPS, AND makes swords safer."

Hmm. As Atacii said, each level of ASI is about 3%-4%, while each level of damage bonus is more like 5%-8%. So damage bonus should increase DPS more than ASI increases DPS. But I agree that ASI makes swords safer, by making canceling/dodging/shielding faster, and I agree with you otherwise.

Dom, 05/20/2012 - 18:52
#25
Imagen de Alynn
Alynn
@Bopp

sorry, by "DPS" I meant damage over a period of time, which i forgot, that the tester did. I will try to find that thread.

But you should also know that whether its ASI or DMG, most of the time, it still takes the same number of hits to kill something, thus making ASI more useful.

Edit: k, nvm, i cant find it anymore. say what u want about asi vs dmg.

Sitio elaborado con Drupal, un sistema de gestión de contenido de código abierto