I know this has ben discussed ALOT but besides voltech, which one is the best? I'm leaning more towards prisma or shadow. What do you guys think?
Which line of alchemer is the overall best?
Mar, 07/24/2012 - 08:42
Mar, 07/24/2012 - 09:00
#2
FALCON PUNCH!
On
Mar, 07/24/2012 - 09:00
#3
your
Mar, 07/24/2012 - 09:01
#4
FALCON PUNCH!
Opinions.
Mar, 07/24/2012 - 09:11
#5
Lol
lol, well just the best for everything in general.
Mar, 07/24/2012 - 09:18
#6
Ice Ice, Baby
I like my Hail Driver for devilite Devilish Drudgery zones that aren't frost based.
Mar, 07/24/2012 - 09:35
#7
You can't compare umbra and
You can't compare umbra and elemental alchemers. Shadow vs elemental. For the elemental alchemers, you have a choice of status or all damage.
Mar, 07/24/2012 - 11:58
#8
I have storm, nova, magma,
I have storm, nova, magma, and umbra driver. It really depends on the enemies and strata you are in. Nova and umbra do more pure damage while storm and magma do about 15%-ish less damage in exchange for status effects. Though you cant compared umbra to the others since its shadow damage.
Mar, 07/24/2012 - 12:16
#9
Nova & Umbra for PvE
Storm
Nova & Umbra for PvE
Storm Driver for PvP
Mar, 07/24/2012 - 17:03
#10
Umbra: Shadow; better for gremlins, slimes and beasts (although still poor on beasts)
Nova: Best for single target damage VS enemies lacking shields that are not weak to umbra
Storm: Best for large groups of enemies that are close together and move often; works well with magma
Magma: Best for turrets and large groups of enemies that do not clump together; works well with storm
Hail: Best for single targets that shield and healers; works well in conjunction with other ice themed items
(I have all kinds of guns)
Mar, 07/24/2012 - 20:20
#11
There is no best alchemer in
There is no best alchemer in general. Nova and Umbra are pure elemental and shadow respectively and do the most damage per shot. Magma and potentially Storm have the highest possible DPS with their status, and Hail is just plain good utility. Storm and Umbra are best for PvP do to the shock and (usually) unresisted shadow damage. The status ones become a matter of opinion, like Brandishes.
(I have all the guns)
Mié, 07/25/2012 - 10:55
#12
Hail driver is arguably the
Hail driver is arguably the worst, simply because the ricochets will just break the freeze, rendering its primary purpose moot.
As for the other status drivers, personally I think they follow the "jack of all trades, master of none" mindset. They don't do as much damage or status (Strong) as the Brandish line, yet don't have the AoE or duration of the Haze-type bombs.
As for the remaining two:
I don't like umbra driver, just because I already had sentenza, and generally shadow guns are pointless since the two monsters that are weak to shadow are easier to hit with a sword.
As for Nova Driver, this is my preferred Driver, however with elemental guns already being fairly abundant (polaris/supernova, AP) and tons of elemental swords, it's hardly crucial. I mostly use mine against turrets. Incidentally, both monster types weak to elemental are very slow anyway, albeit generally more dangerous up close (lumbers, retrodes, almirian crusaders) than other monster types.
Mié, 07/25/2012 - 12:11
#13
Hail works well for charge
Hail works well for charge spamming as the freeze helps line up consecutive shots.
Storm is great for Kats and LD.
Magma shines in levels with lots of enemies not resistant to fire. Too bad there aren't many such levels.
Mié, 07/25/2012 - 14:41
#14
If you want a gun good for
If you want a gun good for everything, get valiance. Normal damage is always semi-effective. If you want pure damage, get both prisma and umbra. Then throw in a callahan/ blitz, and you'll be set for beasts and devilites too.
Mié, 07/25/2012 - 15:14
#15
No. Valiance is arguably one
No. Valiance is arguably one of the worst guns and defeats the point of even USING guns (status effects, taking out turrets/devilites). If you're going to use guns at all, get blitz needle and Polaris. Polaris is practically a straight upgrade from valiance.
Callahan is great against wolvers/devilites if you use a gunner set, but in my experience DBB is better at beasts and BTB is better at fiends, so I don't really use my callahan much anymore, though it also works nicely on gremlins.
Mié, 07/25/2012 - 15:17
#16
lol
You don't play much LD, do you, Batabii? Valiance is superb there. But it's always good within the clockworks for it's knockback; Polaris is slow, which can be good for circumstances, and Valiance is fast reliable knockback. It's kinda stupid to say that Polaris is an upgrade of the Valiance when they work differently and are for different circumstances...
Mié, 07/25/2012 - 15:16
#17
Valiance is way more useful
Valiance is way more useful than polaris in a kiting situation, where one is low on health and needs to play very safely. Not everyone uses a sword, not everyone uses a gun simply for turrets. In fact, not everyone uses a gun as a sidearm.
Mié, 07/25/2012 - 19:31
#18
-In terms of turret sniping,
-In terms of turret sniping, yes valiance is NOT the best gun
-In terms of knockback, it is debatable between it and Supernova, since Valiance has a steady reliable knockback, whereas SN's blows up all over the place
-In terms of damage (which I intended in my previous post), it works on everything, and is scaary in Lockdown
-For taking out devilites, Callahan (like i said before...)
-And yes valiance has no status. But then, it has 3 shots, and is fast and deals knockback, unlike alchemers/ polaris (which is slow)
Jue, 07/26/2012 - 00:56
#19
-LD is only a small part of
-LD is only a small part of the game. You can't even get a single 4* weapon without going to the clockworks once in a while.
-Polaris may be slightly slower, but the huge, exploding shots more than make up for it, and unlike most other guns, you get the same three-shot clip.
-Guns are not for kiting, bombs are.
-everyone SHOULD use at least one sword. Even bombers can benefit from a little crowd control, you can't charge when you're being constantly hit.
-all over the place? polaris's knockback is just as predictable as valiance's, but better.
-it works on everything, yes, but it works MEDIOCRE on everything. It doesn't even have any status effects.
-it's not THAT fast. And the knockback is very weak compared to polaris (which has the same firing rate, just slower bullets, which doesn't matter)
Jue, 07/26/2012 - 06:40
#20
-Guns are not for kiting,
-Guns are not for kiting, bombs are.
That's where you just lost any semblance of assumed gunslinging experience.
Jue, 07/26/2012 - 06:54
#21
Hahaha
-Guns are not for kiting, bombs are.
Yup, us gunners just stand there and trade blows with the enemy, like any real man should. xD
Jue, 07/26/2012 - 07:48
#22
You don't lure enemies into
You don't lure enemies into bullets. You just stand back and fire away.
Jue, 07/26/2012 - 08:10
#23
Processing Thoughts of You Always
Yes, and then you keep moving so they don't get close enough to attack/hit you with a ranged attack.
Seriously...
Jue, 07/26/2012 - 11:09
#24
Polaris is slower, which
Polaris is slower, which really doesn't matter since anyone can learn to lead enemies into bullets. But the big explosion? That's not predictable in the sense that you can't control it as well as a valiance knockback. If a valiance bullet is to hit an enemy, it will be knocked away from you. Doesn't matter if you clip it on the side, or straight at. It gets knocked away from you. Expanded polaris bullets knocks enemies away from the bullet. And since the bullet is slow, enemies can move slightly to the right or left, and get knocked in a different direction. It has higher knockback, but the shock tends to stop it too. If you want huge knockback, go supernova.
Not everyone should get a sword. I have 3 different loadouts, each spec'd for a specific weapon type. I find that when gunning, I don't have a need for swords. Or bombing, because my shield provides the knockback. But when playing with swords, I prefer to have a gun with me.
You don't gun, so don't talk like you know.Using a polaris does not make you a gunner.
Jue, 07/26/2012 - 11:40
#25
Just because I don't use a
Just because I don't use a pure gunner loadout doesn't mean I don't know how guns work. I have Blitz Needle, Nova Driver, Sentenza, Callahan, Gigawatt Pulsar, and Toxic Catalyzer. I almost always keep at least one gun in my loadout.
Jue, 07/26/2012 - 15:01
#26
Yeah, but you don't seem to
Yeah, but you don't seem to understand how gunners work...
If you just stand there and shoot, and enemy will attack you. You kite by shooting and circling so they stay in one place, and so you can keep damaging them without them retaliating. Just like bombs.
everyone SHOULD use at least one sword. Even bombers can benefit from a little crowd control, you can't charge when you're being constantly hit.
- Bombers are all about crowd control: Shivermist, Voltaic, Vortexes, Nitronome. All crowd control, which does it better than swords IMO. Can't charge cause something's too close? Valiance does knockback at any distance, and Supernova does knockback at long distance
it works on everything, yes, but it works MEDIOCRE on everything. It doesn't even have any status effects.
Most pure gunners have high gun damage bonuses, which helps out a ton. Yes it doesn't have status effects; it has knocback (which alchemers lack, and polaris shock counteracts its knockback)
it's not THAT fast. And the knockback is very weak compared to polaris (which has the same firing rate, just slower bullets, which doesn't matter)
The knockback is less, yup. But its steady, and you don't have to do it over a long distance. Yes same firing rate, but slow bullets DO matter. Especially against, say dodging monsters? Like, wolvers and devilites?
Jue, 07/26/2012 - 16:06
#27
Just like bombs? You don't
Just like bombs? You don't keep enemies in one place when bombing, you drop a bomb then lure them into it. You don't just spin them in circles, you keep kiting them into the damage zone.
By "crowd control" I mean WHEN YOU'RE SURROUNDED. You can't drop bombs when you're being hit constantly or barricaded by hordes of enemies. Swords give you breathing room.
Gun bonus affects ALL guns. So it's still not going to help Valiance be worthwhile. Knockback or not, the point remains that guns have a very narrow width of damage and have reload times unlike swords. Plus shock RARELY happens often enough to "counterack knockback".
Guns are MADE for long distance. And why would you use an elemental gun against wolvers anyway? As for devilites, unless you have Callahan or Blitz Needle you're better off using swords on them anyway.
Jue, 07/26/2012 - 17:09
#28
...
I use mist and vortex bombs to complement my loadouts quite often, but that doesn't make me a good pure bomber.
Alchemers work well at close range. It's easier to land ricochets that way.
Jue, 07/26/2012 - 18:13
#29
When you're gunning...
When you're gunning... they're always in your damage zone, if they're coming after you (not literally; of course they're not in you damage zone if they're on the other side of the screen/ outside your gun range, but the point is by keeping them in a clump, they stay in your range)
Your definition of kiting and mine differ. /shrug
When you're surrounded, you can still use valiance's knockback to force your way out. Shoot > move in that direction. Some swords do it better, but that's beside the point if you're a pure gunner.
I'm not a pure gunner so I can't say much but my opinion about Valiance. But I believe it's more for knockback as a utility weapon, in place of a sword.
When it comes to a gun's damage range/ reload time, when you have 2 alchemers, what you do is take a shot, shield cancel, switch to the other gun, shoot, and repeat. The result is you never have to reload, and the rate of fire is increased. How the damage compares to that of pure swording, I dunno. But swords do that lull after you complete a full combo, and constantly charging in puts you at risk of death.
I don't have a polaris, so I wouldn't know how often the shock occurs. But from what other people say, the shock/ KB thing can be an issue.
And yes guns are made for long distance, but again, if you're surrounded like you said, you can use a Valiance's knockback to get out, while it wouldn't work for Polaris/ SN
Again, yes you generally use piercing guns on devilites and wolvers. I'm just stating the downside to slow bullets (and i forgot to mention gremlins). I meant Supernova, not Polaris.
Jue, 07/26/2012 - 20:15
#30
You only need one alchemer to
Jue, 07/26/2012 - 21:11
#31
Can you do that while moving?
Can you do that while moving? As in, aiming and shooting for ricochets. Personally, I find that I don't have the fingers or the key config for it. I hear that the gun should be bound to a key, in order to maximize switching.
depends