Forums › English Language Forums › General › Suggestions

Buscar

Effective changes that could balance Lockdown and more...

11 respuestas [Último envío]
Lun, 08/06/2012 - 23:59
Imagen de Idham
Idham

Ok, first of all I'm not anglophone, so excuse me for my English.

it's been a while since I played LD, so I don't know if it is unchanged, but from my past observations LD is unbalanced, because of especially the first two aspects of the game I will mention, so imo what should be changed is :

First : the hearts trinkets shouldn't be allowed to strikers, it makes them litteraly tanks that can dash, that's nonsense imo, I think the way strikers should be are glass-cannons that have mobility and high dmg dealers. This way it should leave to guardians their characteristic of being though, tanks, and it would add spice for playing striker, as you know you have to be more focus on not getting hit; also players with skills would be rewarded this way. Just this change would balance a lot the game. Same sort of changes for the other classes, I think you get my point.

Secondly, I propose to put in place a system of nemesis classes : each class should be the class that can kill one the two other classes easily, what I propose for example is the following :

Guardians > Strikers >Recons >Guardians

Guardians should be the nemesis of the strikers and strikers the nemesis of the recons and recons the nemesis of guardians.

With this the pvp will be more strategic, no more full strikers team in both sides lool, each class is more usefull in the field, and have their role, advantage weakness.

Third (Optional) : prohibit auto-aim in LD, I think for this there is no need to add further comments lol, they can leave it, with the two changes I talked about before, it's really not an issue, but I think it would make no room to no-skills play (BTB, FF, APM...If you know what I mean ;)...).

Fourth (Optionnal): Add more specific classes please ! Gunners, Samurai, Assassin, Templar etc...With each having a specific capacity, bonuses etc...Like for example how Guardian can heal, shield etc...And make it so we have to deblock them, this way is more gratifying. But again be careful with the balance lol...

With all this said, in my humble opinion, LD will be balanced, will have a much more strategic aspect to it, and gives a feeling of accomplishment when you succeed with a class.

Hope the developers will take this suggestions into account, if you agree guys, +1 and make it so they consider this seriously.

Mar, 08/07/2012 - 00:15
#1
Imagen de Glacies
Glacies
Although Lockdown is

Although Lockdown is unbalanced, this is not the way to balance it.

1) Strikers aren't really tanks. I only use one +6 Health Trinket with a Snarbolax Set and I die in 2-3 hits from everything. If you have a problem just use something the opponent doesn't resist.

2) No. Besides it's already kinda like this.

3) Meh, this has been brought up multiple times and they're not going to change it. The actual problem with Auto-Aim is that people spam finishers, otherwise it's not that bad.

4) No.

Mar, 08/07/2012 - 00:52
#2
Imagen de Idham
Idham
@glacies

Thx for your opinion, about :

1) If you die easily, that doesnt disapprove what I said. With double penta they do not die with 1 or 2 hits, even with max dmg DA on a skolver striker, already encountered this countless of time, I do played LD with skilled players, strikers are unbalanced with penta-hearts, I don't know if you are new in this game, but before we could craft them in the arcade, it was more reasonable, as a guardian or recon if you succeeded into placing a two hits it was finished, you could do stay alive against strikers, but now with hearts trinkets+dash+dmg output good luck for killing them after you did a two combo against them...Strikers should be glass-cannons and it's not the case.

2) Again I disagree, it's not already kinda like this, it's not at all like this : can Recon kill guardian easily ? Can Guardian, Recon kill strikers easily ? (-> this is a big joke ok). Obviously not, its not the case, when you see in a serious pvp team, that it is mainly strikers that do all the job, ... I know some skilled players that play well as guardian or recon, but is a pain even for them to kill a striker, and you should know it too well if you're experienced enough with LD.

3) Well like I said it's not a big issue, but why allowing the possibility to spam, while you can provide a more gratifiying way of playing with just disabling this ? But anyway like I said the first two are more important.

4) Well on this one it is taste, taste and colors arent subject to contestation ;) , but I hope they add more classes :)

Mar, 08/07/2012 - 00:49
#3
Imagen de Asukalan
Asukalan
If you suck everything will

If you suck everything will be OP for you. Thats the real truth. All those omgz please nerf that nerf that, buff that is just people who suck wanting others to suck just like they suck or people who are good but want to ruing one thing that makes them suck.

Mar, 08/07/2012 - 01:01
#4
Imagen de Idham
Idham
@asukalan and the like (you will recognize yourself)

Honestly I don't suck, ask people that know me :), and I'm modest, I don't like arrogant people. So Don't jump into conclusions. I don't agree with people asking nerf here and there, but let's not generalize and put every argument on the same baskets. If you have a VALUABLE, CLEAR, FACTUAL, argument, with example, put it so we can take benefice from it. If not, you should prevent yourself from posting useless comments. Thanks.

Mar, 08/07/2012 - 01:00
#5
Imagen de Forumchat
Forumchat
1. XXX are OP!!! UNFAIR!!!

1. XXX are OP!!! UNFAIR!!! nerf it!!!
2. after nerfing YYY becomes the most OP in LD
3. repeat step 1 and 2
4. eventually only proto gears are allowed in all tiers of LD, satisfied?

Mar, 08/07/2012 - 01:06
#6
Imagen de Idham
Idham
@forumchat

"satisfied?"

No, cause what I explained will not OP YYY while xxx will be nerfed, I wouldn't like too. Read carefully, seems you didn't even understood what I am saying. You should also read my last comment :)

Mar, 08/07/2012 - 01:22
#7
Imagen de Asukalan
Asukalan
Idham, you dont get it, do

Idham, you dont get it, do you?

THERE WILL BE ALWAYS ONE WEAPON THAT will be considered OP, most of players will be using, it will seem that everyone die from it too fast and too often. You nerf it another one will take its place. Even if change is only about Auto aim or trinkets, removing this things will make people adjust and find another optimal loadout that will be used by most of them.

"First : the hearts trinkets shouldn't be allowed to strikers
Third (Optional) : prohibit auto-aim in LD"
Why? Trinkets and Auto Aim is avaliable for EVERONE. You dont use it, its your loss, you are free to use it.

"Fourth (Optionnal): Add more specific classes please ! Gunners, Samurai, Assassin, Templar etc..."
n/c even now those guardian/striker/recon classes are bit cheesy, if more added they would look just silly and would be almost exact copy of existing ones

Mar, 08/07/2012 - 02:16
#8
Imagen de Idham
Idham
@asukalan

First of all thanks for the effort you putted in this last comment, it is more elaborate, and I appreciate it, let's keep it like this although we will not agree on everything :)

"HERE WILL BE ALWAYS ONE WEAPON THAT will be considered OP"

It's not a question of a weapon being overpowered, weapons, uvs aren't OP in my opinion they shouldn't be nerfed, you need to get uvs thats the way it was done, Skolver with max pierce etc...But you have to take damage anyway, so for me it is out of question to nerf weapons etc...

But what it is non-sense is that strikers are being able to become tanks while they dash, broke your guardian shield easily and walking away from you like you until the dash gauge recovers etc...If you ever succeed into placing a two hits full combo of DA or GF on penta striker with Skolver (no elemental uv) he will still be alive, while you have already have lost the shield and some health....And Recon, lol, as soon you are detected you're screwed. If you aren't convinced take the best striker, the best guardian, the best recon with OP uvs everything you want, and make them fight, it's obvious strikers are unbalanced compared to other classes, its bot about stuff, give the best stuff to a skilled guardian player, it will make no diff vs even less skilled strikers. Normally its not the way the dev wanted to implement the game.

If you suppress penta for strikers, it will not make strikers useless, I play sk for one year and a half, and before we couldn't craft hearts trinkets (there was some players that bought 3* ones from people that dropped them), it was more balanced, you take serious dmg from them, its their advantage yes, but you can also survive the fight as a guardian, if you succeeded into placing two hits, but with penta, the advantage is given to tank strikers. Obviously with same stuffs, advantage is given to strikers, its not question of skill here.

"Even if change is only about Auto aim or trinkets, removing this things will make people adjust and find another optimal loadout that will be used by most of them."

Well list the things they will adjust to ? Give a real example. Like I said I already know about this, cause like I said I played LD before penta was craftable, they cannot come to something more OP than this. Test it and you will see.

"Trinkets and Auto Aim is avaliable for EVERYONE. You dont use it, its your loss, you are free to use it."

About trinkets, I have them, I use them, and I find them the main reason the game is unbalanced...I dont use auto-aim, not that I find it OP, but for me and a bunch of people, we find it this way too easy, like I said it is optionnal, but if you suppress it = more skill oriented game. That's all.

"n/c even now those guardian/striker/recon classes are bit cheesy, if more added they would look just silly and would be almost exact copy of existing ones"

For this one I let the developers to improve the "cheesy" classes we have and use their imagination for the new classes. The way I wanted to suggest it, is that each classe should be different from the others, you can upgrade for exemple recon to assassin with some specific ability toward this, as for what condition, I though about experience, LD grade you achieved to have with each bacis class (striker, guardian etc). But like I said ---> Optional. I count on OOO to surprise us like before, Im so far satisfied with their ideas :)

Mar, 08/07/2012 - 09:40
#9
Imagen de Nurdell
Nurdell
Overpowered striker

Well, you technically can't do anything against his speed - he caps first, has the range advantage in duels and "interrupt all" combo with the flourish swords (while it is the duel winner, it is hard to pull off, so it kind of balances itself with the skill required. I still think such a thing shouldn't exist as well as 2 hit kills and incredible spammability of polaris line but that's a topic for other thread, hundreds of them).

If he was gimped without the boost so that striker and normal-moving recon without cloak come to the really faraway point in aprox. the same time, then they will be normalized capture-point-wise. (the point is where the striker stands when he used the full boost bar and it regens) To do this developers could tinker with boost's speed, length, time and way it refills, and striker's speed without boost. That way strikers can still be beasts in combat, but will not be the best for moving out of combat and recons can catch up to them cloaked if they really want. But recons and guardians do generally cap the point better so that should not be done that harsh.

What LD really lacks is power of guns and bombs in tier 1 - guns do half the bar damage and bombs have such low radius that it leaves only swords.

If you haven't written that you do good in lockdown, I would suggest crafting 3-star set and weapons; playing LD for a week for the time you do your usual clockworking; being a team-player such as sticking to good players, taking notice of enemy's armour, healing and shielding others with guardian, backcapping as recon. and playing defensively as striker. But since you had, I can only wish you good luck in your adventures, wish for implementing my idea one way or another, and return of no-mercy-frames LD.

Oh, and by the way: if they did it right there would be no best weapon so that the choice would be purely by play-style.

Mar, 08/07/2012 - 14:50
#10
Imagen de Trollingyou
Trollingyou
Hmmm

The reasoning behind the idea is good, but the methods may not be the best methods.

1. Yes, striker should be a glass cannon with high offense and low defense. Yes, Heart pendants disrupt this balance when used on this class. I made a heart pendant to see how powerful it really is and yes, only one makes a huge difference. However, restricting heart pendant use would not be fair IMO. They should have the option to TRADE offense for some defense, or just go all out offense. Right now, with the skolver-striker setup you can get high amounts of both, which is where the imbalance is.

Myself and many others proposed many times to increase the striker health penalty for T2 and T3 Lockdown. Whether increase in just the flat amount or make it percentage based so the more health you get, the more you lose. I also think it would be a good idea to take away the sword damage bonus on the striker class and replace it with CTR sword bonus. This way you actually have to sacrifice to gain max damage like everyone else does.

2. This looks like the Bombs > Swords > Guns > Bombs thing. If the three classes were balanced I imagine it would be like this naturally, so no change is needed here.

3. Maybe, though it is nice for new players and if lockdown were balanced it may not be such a big issue.

4. Don't know about this one, maybe add a hybrid class or two for the hybrid loving people but beyond that I'm not sure about.

I do agree with Nurdell that the mercy frames should go, as it messes with how the weapons are supposed to work. Also, balance does not have to mean weapon A is equal to weapons B, C, and D. It just means that weapon A does not outclass weapons B, C, and D. weapon A could have an advantage over weapon B, but weapon C will have the advantage over weapon A, which is at a disadvantage against weapon B. This is an example of balance, does it sound familiar?

Mar, 08/07/2012 - 22:22
#11
Imagen de Idham
Idham
@Nurdell and Trollingyou

Thx for you comments guys. I agree with almost all you said, and yes what I mentioned is one of the many suggestions that we can come up to balance LD, its not THE solution, I thought about allowing hearts and lowering the defense, or like trolling said penalty defense (or health) to strikers etc... Anyway you get the idea I think, we can get to balance the classes, thus the game, without the question of nerf/OP and overall we agree, that's good.

If strikers become glass-cannons like they were before hearts were craftable (I played LD at that time like I said), it's all good, and you will clearly see the difference, strikers despite what some newcomers thinks, will not be useless then, if you play good, using your brain (and have also an optical connection lol) you can get to not be touched at all, and it adds spice to the way you play strikers, also this way gives possibility to other classes to do something vs them.

@trolling :

2/. The way I though about it isn't really sword vs guns etc...but tanks > damage dealers > recon (assassin), and each class could fulfill its role with guns, swords, bombs etc...

3/. Yes agree.

4/. the way I see this is like eden eternal classes upgrade for example, with the ability to do different builds for each class based on your play style. There is raw matter to make LD jewel with this imo, BUT let's balance the game first... hahaha

A thought I forgot to mention : hearts craftable means => CE and CE for the dev means => $, so despite I posted this, I doubt they will change it lol...But I hope they do something, so LD attracts all kind of players (gunners (I pity them really), bombers, defense style, etc...).

Sitio elaborado con Drupal, un sistema de gestión de contenido de código abierto