Spiral Knights - Catalyzer Charges + Invincibilty Frames in LD

Catalyzer Charges + Invincibilty Frames in LD

11 respuestas [Último envío]

Mar, 08/14/2012 - 21:30

Nechrome

As you probably know, catalyzer gun line charges fire a bomb thing that orbits the target for a snort amount of time before dissapearing, but the basic attack can make it blow up. That way, you can stack them and do massive damage.

You also probably know about the invincibilty frames in LD, which activate for a split second after you take damage in LD to prevent people from dying so fast from weapons that have fast and multiple attacks (Cutter line, autogun line, etc).

The invincibilty frames prevent all the shards of the old shard bomb lines from all hitting an enemy. Only 1 would hit, and the invincibitly frames would cancel out the rest. What I want to know is if they'd do the same with catalyzer charges.

Say you plug an enemy knight with, say, 3 charge bombs, and you detonate them. They'd all detonate at the same time, but would all of them do damage? Would the invincibilty frames allow only 1 charge bomb from dealing damge, or would they all do stacked damage because the invincibilty frames wouldn't be able to block them since they exploded at the same time?

So... yeah. Dunno if you guys can understand what I just wrote up there, but I'd appreciate it if someone could answer my question.

Mié, 08/15/2012 - 09:09

Dukeplatypus

I stand corrected.

Mar, 08/14/2012 - 22:12

Virtuewis

I suck with my catalyzer

I find the shots and charges on my catalyzer to be so dang slow, I can barely hit anything in LD with em... That's an interesting question and answer. It seems that I have even less reason to use it in pvp than before this thread. Thanks!

Edit: spelling... and OCD lol

Mié, 08/15/2012 - 03:05

Zeddy

Duke is wrong

NONE of the orbiting orbs would do damage. The enemy would take damage only from the shot used to detonate the bomb.

Curiously, this was also the case during the glorious invinci-frame free week.

Mié, 08/15/2012 - 09:22

Kuratiustwo

You know, I think we could

You know, I think we could technically report this as a bug.

Mié, 08/15/2012 - 09:30

Sypsy

I did testing of this when

I did testing of this when there was the invincibility bug.

The shot itself will do about 4 pips of damage (maybe less, but this is easily tested, and depends on your damage bonuses.) Each charge will do 0.5 pips of damage. If you got 8 charges on someone, their total damage would be 8. Anyone nearby would get 4 pips of damage. Unfortunately, this is not practical to set up, and it was very difficult to to blow up someone when they were next to their teammate. I was hoping for some big deadly suicidal bomber explosion, but it was not the case. I think this was by design on OOO's part.

Zeddy is correct for normal situations: the invincibility frames mean only the single shot will do damage. In addition, the explosion will cause teammates to be damaged by half a pip (1 charge's worth of damage.)

Mié, 08/15/2012 - 10:18

Tenkii

I'm inclined to side with Zeddy's observation, because I got to try it once or twice during the no-invincibility week and got pretty pathetic damage.

Considering how powerful each charge's raw damage is, each Biohazard charge should hurt at least like a GF slash1, but after laying 5+ charges on someone (wearing shadowsun, which may have affected this adversely), it only did a cumulative of around 5 pips. My normal shots with Biohazard can deal 3-5 on skolvers (no shadow defense), and vs monsters does about 1/3 of the damage of a charge. 1 damage per pip on shadowsun for a charge is unbelievably weak.

But anyway, that's mostly irrelevant to normal play because invincibility frames DO render the charge (even more) useless, doing no damage to the same target because of the normal shot hitting first.

If anyone's gutsy enough to want to test again, there is one somewhat-reliable condition to remove invincibility frames : shock.

If I can land a critical Sudaruska charge (the amazingly powerful result of BOTH charge hits landing!) on a shocked player in the chaos of a regular match, I'm sure someone can do a controlled test with biohazard and storm driver...

Mié, 08/15/2012 - 11:25

Nechrome

"NONE of the orbiting orbs

"NONE of the orbiting orbs would do damage. The enemy would take damage only from the shot used to detonate the bomb"

XP I can't believe I didn't think about that. Derp. That certainly sucks.

@Seiran

Does shock really do that? I'd no idea. Guess it's time to equipt my catalyzer/lightning capacitor loadout and try it out... Hope I can convince my IRL friend to help me with this. :/

Truthfully, I don't really know why I'm asking this question, considering the fact that I don't really use my catalyzer in LD. :/ Sheer curiosity, I guess.

Mié, 08/15/2012 - 13:16

Zeddy

@Sypsy

Each charge will do 0.5 pips of damage.

That is the least sense anything has made all week.

Mié, 08/15/2012 - 13:31

Sypsy

@Zeddy

I know it is, but that's what the tests showed during the week of no invincibility frames. I think it's because I had max damage on at the time. Who knows.

I found my old post here: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/53994#comment-400055

0 charges: 4.5 total
1 charge: 5 total
2 charges: 5.5 total
A lot of them: 8 total

Conclusion:
Biohazard shot w/ max damage: 4.5
Charge: 0.5

Mié, 08/15/2012 - 13:59

#10

Zeddy

I know, right?

Yeah, I'm just saying. I don't even get how that's possible unless every weapon has different damage numbers for Lockdown. That implies OOO actually tried to balance weapons with eachother in terms of Lockdown and are actually just very, very poor at doing this.

Mié, 08/15/2012 - 17:32

#11

Tenkii

@lordofnecromancers

Yes, it does - but only during the shock animation. I heard elsewhere that fire ticks also do the same thing, but shock has a greater window and far more utility, stopping people and all that. It's actually the cornerstone of what's currently my primary playstyle in Lockdown - shock assassinations as a recon gunner. People get shocked, then ricochets and max attack speed do the rest. I've held my own pretty well for what is (for now) a rare playstyle in the game ;v

Originally, I suggested using Storm Driver/Biohazard, but you brought up the shock bomb. That's a much better and reliable choice lol.

Just remember that every charge you tag with a catalyzer only lasts 20 seconds before it disappears.

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Catalyzer Charges + Invincibilty Frames in LD