As we all know, the recent RSS change was relatively despised. (RIP RSS. :c) But this is only one of 3 purely offensive bombs that bombers can use for pure DPS/LD defense. But let me ask my fellow bombers (I mean pure, not toothpick-status combos,):
Has bombing become obsolete offensively in lockdown?
Well, obviously it'll never be as good as it was, that's like saying Dark Retribution will never live up to it's former glory from when it first came out. RSS was overpowered for a 4* and got a nerf and new set of mechanics. It's not useless, it's decent as a defensive bomb and works alright in crowds, it's just quite underwhelming. It also wasn't "stolen" from you, everyone knew a nerf would come eventually, and you got a 2-3 month advance warning when it did, along with compensation that was worth considerably more than the bomb itself (albeit was a bit crude). Anyone who used the bomb knew they were using (and possibly abusing) an item that was a dev oversight and could be changed at any moment should they have felt it was necessary.
And honestly, the "skill" argument is hokum. I had barely any bombing skill, and I could still land 6+ shards consistently on a zombie after ~3-4 tries when using RSS for the first time.
I wouldn't say it was "that" overpowered. For a 4* it certainly was, but that was only because there was no 5* version. It was more of a grenade than a bomb; it killed few enemies at a time (as opposed to large groups, like most other bombs) which largely changed tactics for bombers. The fact that you could ohko a zombie didn't make it overpowered, it just made it utterly different from other bombs that took 3 cycles, but killed ten zombies at a time.
Nerfing it a bit was expected, but they didn't just nerf it, they stole it. The bomb doesn't exist anymore, the entire concept is gone and replaced with an entirely new, and entirely worthless new bomb (due entirely to the shockingly low dps output), and adding stun onto it just made it even worse, for all the same reasons that nobody uses Haze.
You think? Even when I first started LD and had no idea what I was doing, I could get decent scores with little effort and bad gear. Bombing was incredibly easy to get good scores; RSS was basically a 1/2 hit kill button that was disgustingly easy to hit with.
Damage-wise yes, they have become rather obsolete. All you have to do when you see a bomber is pull out your Trollaris (or some other gun if you feel like being nice at the moment) and they cannot hit you while you pew pew at them.
However, they still have area control, which can be used offensively. No one wants to walk into a cloud of status or Nitronome (not even teamates?). When a bomber is on your side, you can simply walk into the bomb's blast radius and gain immediate advantage in combat. One could argue this is a defensive gain, but it certainly helps with offense.
Now, this doesn't mean bombs are fine the way they are. They should be able to do damage.
From a Tier 3 perspective, it still has its uses. But as a former (yet skilled) T2 bomber, bombing in general has been severly crippled. Shards was THE damage bomb. Why? because with the current radius of all the other 3* bombs, it was the only fast enough to charge at close range. I've kinda stop playing since, so Im not exactly sure how shards work in t2 (especially since the forums are almost entirely T3) but for the most part, bombing is nearly impossible now
Shards have one of 2 uses, and it's the same as all the other bombs.
Area denial, or having more than one effect on the battlefield.
Shards are pathetic in LD. There's almost absolutely no use for them damage-wise... except for when you have a massive group of people battling and you magic your way in the middle of it all.
Oh and with the shardnerf, you can't be a pure-bomber anymore in the CW (when a T1 or t2 player) and still do as good as a gunner or swordie. Both gunner and swordie can hit the turrets across from you in Scarlet Fortress... guess what can't? All bombs.
Thanks for the middle finger OOO.
I am playing with a striker bomber loadout. The best I can do so far is delay several people from capping a point while offering less chip damage then a gunner. Still practicing though.
The shards still have some uses - due to the horrifically unpredictable double-fuse, when coupled with spam, means that you are dropping bombs everywhere that nobody wants to walk into, because there is a fuse going off every half a second.
I kinda like the new Shards. If Wolvers still dodged, or could dodge bombs, then this bomb would be OP. Trap one in the ring and he is stuck.
"Trap one in the ring and he is stuck."
Until you watch them walk out of it with the speed of zombies, taunting you.
Why would you use shards on wolvers? DBB is already the best wolver-killing weapon in the entire game, SSS doesn't even remotely compare.
Currently, I don't really care about Lockdown at all because of my bomb focused arsenal. (shiver is rendered useless with all the skolvers). I will give it a chance again once I finish heating my Faust and I get a Trollaris. Then I can just be like every other LD drone.
That's just how games work, if you don't have the optimal gear, those people with optimal gear and high skillz will b***h slap you every time you they see you with their 2nd set of eyes.
Hard to ignore the majority of weapon nerfs I seen since joining the game have been bombs. Yet I rarely see another bomber.
-5 star mist bombs having their radius reduced and their duration reduced as well
-DR nerfed because it actually could output higher damage than a sword
-RSS removed and replaced with completely useless shard bombs.
Yeah, I guess. Barely see other bombers in LD when I play nowadays.
Purely bombing is far less plausible than purely swording/gunning; but no, bombing is not obsolete, and remains the best means of crowd control. Hybrids will still find a good amount of use in bombs for damage while pure bombers will have to rely on swords and guns as their main source of damage- or will suffer to sub par damage.
Quite an outstanding statement that I'd love to back up, unfortunately it is late and I should sleep.
@Fehzor, I disagree. Brandishes are much better at crowd control and damage than bombs. They have high damage, status, a normal attack, and their charge sends monsters one way. Did I mention they have high enough damage to one charge kill things?
Swords aren't even remotely as capable of crowd control as haze bombs. Not by a long shot, in pvp or CW. If you're going by a control:damage ratio then it's more up for debate, as to whether or not the reduced control is worth the far higher damage, but (unless I read very wrong) that's not what Fehz was saying.
I'm still working on getting my bombs heated. When i get them heated i'm going to work on a lockdown loadout and technique. :D
Brandishes are far more versatile and are entirely a better investment than bombs; but bombs still hold a place in the game- being crowd control over large numbers of enemies. There are times when it is simply impossible to hit all enemies with a single brandish charge; in those situations, a haze bomb is going to be much better. Which is basically what I said.
But that's not really the point. Shards (T2 again) was THE only fast offensive bomb. Blast bombs have a rhythm that is relatively slow and easy to dodge. Haze bombs only serve as area denial. Snarby bomb line is nearly useless due to the high amounts of piercing defence. The new shard bombs (at T2) don't do crap (in terms of damage) and vortex bombs aren't suited for damage at all.
So when the OP asks if offensive bombing has become obsolete in LD, I becomes clear that the most likely answer is yes, bomb can no longer provide a decent amount of damage support wether centralized on to one target or spread out to several targets. (again all of this is from a T2 perspective)
That was in response to Oatmonster, not the OP. My apologies.
In regards to lockdown, bombing can be done offensively- if you run onto a point and drop a bomb. Its hard, but it can have huge payoffs.
I figure I'll input my opinion.
Following the shard bomb nerf, the only real bombs that could produce major hurt on their own are the radius blast bombs. However, they are useless against strikers, as it doesn't take a lot of skill to counterattack while a bomber is charging. They are mediocre against non-gunner recons, and absolutely unsafe to use if your invisible opponent happens to be a gunner.
However, an important thing I've noticed is that blast bombs shine against guardians. When you start spamming blast bombs around a guardian, their first instinct is to shield and hope that they don't get killed. The consistent AoE of these damage bombs takes advantage of a guardian's slow movement speed when shielding, and eventually breaks their shield and kills them! This also takes advantage of the fact that guardians are not affected by knockback. Got a couple of mean looking strikers surrounding a guardian? Sneak in a primed Nitronome and push away the strikers and leave easy prey for yourself.
It's interesting, really, how the lack of reaction to knockback can be a blessing and a curse. A blessing, as they aren't affected by the pull in of Vortex Bombs, but a curse, as their buddies can't help when you've got a clever blast bomber.
In T1, the method of using blast bombs (Firecracker, Cold Snap, and Static Flash) is effective, as there will often be more guardians than strikers (but even then, the 1* Blast Bombs are still effective against strikers). An added bonus is that there are not as many gunners to pester you.
Never did blast bombing in T2, only pre-nerf shards. Not going to comment here except that I'm guessing the radius of the 3* bombs (Twisted Spine Cone and Super Blast Bomb) are enough to keep guardians on their toes and off your capture point.
In T3, the humongous radius of your Nitronome or Dark Briar Barrage is enough to take down large cluster formations of guardians that gunners and swordies would otherwise have trouble with. This can work against a single guardian, groups of guardians, or a guardian and non-guardian mixed group. I've gotten 17k in a Guild Lockdown Match against The Jempire with a pure bombing set, pre RSS nerf. The majority of the damage came from my Nitronome, however, because the Jemps were forming groups of guardian clusters (strikers and recons who were being sheltered by said guardians were affected as well) and the amount of normal damage bars flying everywhere was satisfying to see.
If all else fails, you can use your Blast Bomb Series bomb as a flash bomb. Seerusly, the flashy animation makes a great smokescreen.
(Might add something about the Vortex Bombs later...)
So to answer OP's question: No, not entirely. You'll just have to be lucky and hope a lot of people are guardians in your match so you can wreak havoc on them with your blast bombs. Offensive bombing does exist, but it just fits a pretty tiny niche.
That being said.... RIP, Radiant Sun Shards. I miss you.
~ Lizzi
(Had to copy paste some of this stuff from a LD Bombing Guide I wrote a while ago but never got around to finishing) xD
yes bombing has become obsolete. I saw above where someone argued you could still use bombs to kill things so it isn't obsolete--i think it was Duckyplatty but not sure. But um...you could still cool meat in a barn using blocks of ice and sawdust, but it is obsolete. Meh, i won't elaborate, i think the point is made.
secondly, i don't buy the overpowered argument. EVERYONE who complains about it being overpowered could careless about how strong 5* brandishes or a blitz needle are. RSS was just the RSS. Yeah, it could one hit KO things. Just like OKO swords and OKO guns. It was balanced just fine.
The fact it was a 4* bomb with 5* power argument also falls on deaf ears for me. In the grand scheme of things the 800ce+craft costs are nothing. And again, no one complains about the voltedge being 6* strength for the cost of 5*. Would i be upset if they made the RSS 5* for it's cost/strength...nah. Actually what would have been awesome is if 4* was normal damage, and had 5* variants for pierce,elem/shadow/etc that were the same strength but varied damage type.
So instead, now bombs are the only weapon class missing OKO.
And where are these people's OP arguments in relation to armors? The argument is sooooooo hypocritical. I really don't see how anyone can make that argument. Their high horse is a miniature pony.
The PvP QQ's argument. well...Pvp is nothing but skolver and toothpics/gran faust. And all these people accept its that way. If RSS was TRULY broken in PvP then everyone would be in bomber gear rocking RSS, but they aren't. They are in skolver/toothpic/GF. So why aren't these people crying about that. Just silly.
Let me just correct one vital, key, important, essential thing for you, there:
yes bombing has become obsolete offensively.
It wasn't the bomb...
It was the bomber... for knowing how to get the full charge up without getting hit.
OOO hates bombers. Proof? Here it is:
-No 0* bomber gear
-Only Ele defence for bomber gear
-Lowest DPS AND have to get up close
-Little variety
-MUST be charged to attack
-RSS
Need I elaborate?
-Little variety
I'd have to disagree with that one. Swordies probably have the least variety, having only regular swords (of varying speeds, I guess) and the teethpicks...and WRH. Otherwise, they're all the same, inherently = click, swing. Click, swing.
Bombers get:
Hazes [the varying statuses having different degrees of effect]
Dark Ret
Vortexes
DPS bombs [varying degrees of KB power]
RSS/new shards
Swordies get:
Launch large, piercing projectiles (sealed)
Launch fast, non-piercing projectiles (spur, thorn blade)
Powerful combo (cutter, flourish)
360 swing (calibur, FoV)
Line of explosions (proto, brandish)
Smash followed by explosion (troika, hammer)
Regular combos on top of that.
Mix-and-match dynamic combo system through shield-canceling.
I'm a bomber and think bombs actually have a good bit of variety. What do gunners think?
Well RSS is basically useless everywhere now; as much as we try to use shard bombs to full effect, it'll never compare to how good RSS was, in either LD or CW.
Ofc, RSS wasn't the only bomb to use in LD (forgive me, but I've been out of it for a while), as I did use other bombs that haven't been changed. Even just going in dropping Nitros everywhere was effective, as not only did it cause damage, but the KB of it would cause problems for the enemy team, too. Vortexes worked nicely as well if you have someone nearby to dish damage while you lock someone down with them and/or hazes. I would say DBB is effective, but in my experience too many folk run around in Skolver for it to be worth it.
Point is, I wouldn't say it's become obsolete just because the best bomb got stolen from us. There's still all the others.