It seems that the plate items would reduce a ton of damage seeing the bar for normal defence and other defences are really high. Do they really decrease a lot of damage or is the diffrence very little?
Im Getting thinking on getting VP set.
Do The Plate Items Actually decrease a decent amount of damage?
Sáb, 11/10/2012 - 02:37
Sáb, 11/10/2012 - 04:26
#2
Daheck
Its hard to understand this gibberish stuff. I cant understand all these things that anistone wrote
Sáb, 11/10/2012 - 08:43
#3
It's simple ...
Well, I find it to be pretty straigthforward, but here are a few key take-aways :
- there are 2 competing models to calculate how much damage you take based on your defense :
* flat reduction : no matter how much damage you take, it's reduced by X bar
* (edit : this was ruled out by Antistone, thanks Bopp) exponential reduction : you take X% off of the total damage dealt, and that's how much you get off of your health bar.
With his calculations, there is no way to tell which one is the one SK uses, because both land the same values. Let's just use the first one, since it's simplier to calculate.
- based on his calculation, you can see for each gear (in the conclusion) how much bars it reduce, according to the pixel size of the bar.
- you should read one of the last paragraphs : "Take-Home Lessons"
Sáb, 11/10/2012 - 06:39
#4
Instead of playing defensively, you can get a skolver coat and deal enough damage to neutralize any enemy before it even has a chance to attack.
Everyone wears the same stuff for a reason, You can try something new and see if it suits your style but dont raise your expectations.
But if you insist... VP has a great shield for FSC.
Sáb, 11/10/2012 - 08:00
#5
Not all players can rely on
Not all players can rely on offence. For example, bombers can take advantage of defence while being hit mid-charge, especially in LD. I find that the Plate Mail does reduce damage a bit, but doesn't do much to help against heavy hits that kill you in 2/3 hits anyways. Ancient Plate does seem to extend your life quite a bit, but I reckon that's at least equally down to the extra hps.
Sáb, 11/10/2012 - 08:03
#6
also
The note at the top of http://wiki.spiralknights.com/User:Antistone says that the exponential model is ruled out. So it appears that the flat model is more likely to be correct. I haven't crunched the numbers myself.
In the case of plate armors, you lose some of this precious defense with the attack speed decrease, which can really hinder your interrupting, shielding, dodging, etc. I agree with the conventional wisdom (and Little-Juances) that you'd rather have high mobility and strong offense. But maybe you can develop your own viable play style and prove the conventional wisdom wrong.
Sáb, 11/10/2012 - 08:10
#7
I don't think that ASI-1
I don't think that ASI-1 counts for too much in the end, unless stacked with a lot more negatives. I use my UVd plate mail in a number of my LD loadouts and can definitely notice a difference in how long I survive. It's not a massive, game-changing amount longer, but you do grow to become aware of when something would have killed you had you been wearing your offence armour.
But then again, I speak for LD, where pierce/ele is what matters most, and that ASI can be negated easily enough.
Sáb, 11/10/2012 - 08:43
#8
Oh thanks for that catch
Oh thanks for that catch Bopp, I actually did miss that note.
@Darkbrady the problem is not only the ASI-1, but also the fact that there is not any offensive bonus : most offensive armors have the equivalent of 2 low. In some case, it's 3 (Mask of Seerus) or 4 (Mad Bomber). As I said, comparing to a standard armor with 2 low, the end effect for the full set is equivalent to a Max. Do you still find that this doesn't count for too much ?
Sáb, 11/10/2012 - 09:25
#9
Oh no, wasn't meaning that at
Oh no, wasn't meaning that at all. I was meaning that the negative in and of itself isn't that much; it's not a -3 or -4 like Mask or Mad (although I am aware it's essentially a -2, this is easy to circumvent). For instance, using plate mail works nicely as a hazer who won't need the benefit of bonuses from other sets and could use the tankitude.
I'm all for the tank buff discussion, just wanted to throw in that they don't do nothing and the difference is noticeable. Whether it's even remotely worth it or not is really situational and dependant on your build, but I feel that it has saved me more than once~
Sáb, 11/10/2012 - 09:40
#10
we know nothing about the original poster
We know nothing about the original poster --- for example, whether he's a haze bomber, or a sworder, or what. Until we do know something, I don't see how we can give him any more useful advice.
Sáb, 11/10/2012 - 12:32
#11
I wish there was a way of seeing how much these things actually did... like, an option to change it from "Has a mysterious amount of X defense" to "Has 45% damage resistance in X." That would be nice.
Sáb, 11/10/2012 - 12:44
#12
casual game
My sense is: The game is supposed to be casual. It's not supposed to cater to people (like us) who want to quantify and optimize. Everything that could be quantified (health, damage protection, status protection, weapon damage, damage bonuses, vulnerable/resistant damage) is left vague. Frankly I'm surprised that we even have the option of showing damage numbers on hits.
Dom, 11/11/2012 - 21:16
#13
@Darkbrady
Eh, a cumulative -2 is massive compared to a cumulative +4! ASI penalty Med vs ASI or DMG VH? C'mon.
Lun, 11/12/2012 - 00:34
#14
Ok
So will VP set help me or make me bad?
<-----
Lun, 11/12/2012 - 02:15
#15
Wall of text are long to read.
Short answer : make you bad.
Long answer : see previous comments for the explanation.
Lun, 11/12/2012 - 05:16
#16
@Derpules:
I'm just up so
@Derpules:
I'm just up so forgive me if I'm being stupid, but I read my comment and yours like five times and just cannae make sense of it one way or the other. Care to re-word for me?
Lun, 11/12/2012 - 15:53
#17
Let me point something out
EDIT: I heard the volcanic plate has elemental resistance alongside the normal resistance. It's not so bad after all. I apologize for the confusion I might've made.
Lun, 11/12/2012 - 18:33
#18
@Darkbrady Let me reword it
@Darkbrady Let me reword it for you
You can choose Minus Medium ASI (VP) or you can choose Plus Very High ASI (Vog), OR Plus Very High Damage (Snarby/Skolver)
The choice is clear, VP loses.
Mar, 11/13/2012 - 10:11
#19
Oh, just that? I thought I
Oh, just that? I thought I covered that point...
For instance, using plate mail works nicely as a hazer who won't need the benefit of bonuses from other sets and could use the tankitude
As in, sometimes the offensive bonuses can be ignored or are un-needed, which makes a direct comparison irrelevant. For example, my recon bomber won't be worrying about Skolvers +4, so that -2 from Ironmight doesn't sound so bad in that situation, especially when it's a -2 that wilnae even affect me.
Thusly, the negative is ignored and the only thing in question is its defensive value.
Search is your friend. After a quick search with "diminishing returns" (that's what you should worry about when stacking anything) :
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/User:Antistone the most conclusive, well written piece of data on it
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/38367 Additional details 1
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/43477 Additional details 2
Looking at the bars, it seems like the elemental resistance of VP is about the same as Vog Cub. The difference between both on normal is about 2,5 segment, which accounts to one UV : Max according to Antistone table. Considering it's normal and that is already heavily reduced and not omnipresent in T3 (most things have at least half-special), I'm not sure it will be heavily noticeable. It would probably be one bar off of every attack for the full set. Considering dangerous attacks do much more than that, I wouldn't say it's really useful.
Also, it's worth considering, VP have 1 low debuff, while a lot of armors have 2 low buffs. That's 3 low of difference. PER PART. That's a MAX if you consider the full set.
So, I highly advise you against getting the VP set.