Dying is the equivalent of healing back to full, it just takes a little longer. If you're on the other side of a big map, and you spent all your boost getting into a situation where you need to retreat, it takes about as long to heal as dying and having a medium-respawn timer.
-1
sometimes 20 second revive times
"sometimes"?!
Ha! I should be so lucky, 90% of my rev times are 15+sec. S'why I'm on the forums so much~
Interesting suggestion though. It's not as if some classes don't already have specific tweaks (such as Guardians being immune to a weapon) so I see no reason why Strikers shouldn't be able to be tweaked as well.
It'd definitely break the confidence of some players who are happy to troll around for damage knowing they can heal up, and probably won't affect average/bad strikers all that much since the majority of them won't heal up unless they're nearby anyways and die more often in larger fighters, rendering this "debuff" less noticeable for them.
May seem unfair punishing a whole class for a select group, but fact is that until LD is balanced properly, strikers could use some punishment.
"(such as Guardians being immune to a weapon)"
Waitwhat? That happened?
What weapon?
"May seem unfair punishing a whole class for a select group, but fact is that until LD is balanced properly, strikers could use some punishment."
True. My argument is based solely on the suggested idea. Never thought of expanding into possibilities.
Oops ^.^'
"That would make Strikers the most useless class, ever." But really, It wouldn't make them useless. I would say that that 1 on 1 full health battle any class is balanced. However the main issue here is the strikers ability to heal quickly and repetitively with no penalty, (some skilled players even wear lesser gear in T3 to off set this imbalance and do fine, I will use them as reference that taking damage is not an issue if you can avoid being hit). Yes recon and guardian players can also use the pads but it results in a large time loss walking back which there in gives the advantage to strikers, and again I reiterate this would not make strikers useless it would just make them suffer the same time loss that recon and guardian players do when they die.
As for not thinking that strikers are OP, I'm not saying they are over powered in the sense that they will dominate every time, but there is a clear advantage.
"Dying is the equivalent of healing back to full, it just takes a little longer."
Which is the issue I propose to resolve. Even on the larger maps at the furthest you can be from your spawns heal pad, it quicker for strikers to boost back and heal, However, it is not quicker for a guardian or recon to do the same.
And when it does come to the top players, who have the skill, have the gear, and have every advantage they can come up with, I have seen recon players and guardian dominate, Pulling 20k+ damage with caps and defends. However given then same conditions a striker will come out on top.
I'd have to agree, this wouldn't cripple strikers at all. I mean let's face it, teh heart pads were there for when you're passing your base, not to be abused by strikers. On most maps you can boost back to base, heal and return to the action faster than it'd take you to die, wait, res then run along, and that's not even considering what happens if the action is at a mid-point!
Slow heartpads and guardians are how you're supposed to heal, I don't imagine it was the intention for strikers to be boosting back to heal as they do, as it keeps them alive and in the game for longer. Mind, strikers were supposed to have low hp and rely on guardians to heal, but w/ heart trinkies and triplemax UVs, strikers can kill a whole team, ignore the guardian and heal, and be back before half the other team has caught up w/ them. It's abuse is what it is in a frank sense.
Also, as I've said in other threads, strikers are OP. Not the players, not the gear, but the striker class as a whole is very imbalanced compared to the others, with high, relevant bonuses, unbreakable power, crazy speed and the ability to heal up faster than guardians. I agree that this'd be a simple way to just allow strikers to die a bit more often. It won't nerf the class in any way so keeps it fair; it'd essentially just prevent a small exploit tat keeps strikers seemingly immortal.
Also, Guardians are immune to vortexes. Completely unaffected by the drag.
"But really, It wouldn't make them useless. I would say that that 1 on 1 full health battle any class is balanced."
True, I think I exaggerated.
Sorry, sometimes my brain puts words into my mouth (Or in this case, hands) without thinking through the full meaning.
I'm weird that way, among others.
"However given then same conditions a striker will come out on top."
I would suppose so, considering they have the damage bonus. A recon would have to be both pretty skilled and lucky to take out a competent striker, given some thought.
In any case, I still don't think disabling a Striker's use of health pads will provide a fix. Making it slower, maybe, although that's probably impossible.
...
Idk, I don't have a better idea, but there probably is one.
EDIT: "Also, Guardians are immune to vortexes. Completely unaffected by the drag."
Cool, but is that a bug?
A recon would have to be both pretty skilled and lucky to take out a competent striker, given some thought.
Or guardian. Guard and Recon powers can be broken by the striker, who can then chase them down w/o givin' them a chance of escape. That's something that the other classes simply cannot do, nor compete with, and never will be able to as long as boosters are unbreakable.
In any case, I still don't think disabling a Striker's use of health pads will provide a fix
Don't see it as a fix as much as a balancing. As I say, it'd just push them to fight until they die and have them off the field for a bit longer. As it is, with them healing when they want, they can remain on the field the entire match. 25k damage counts come from being at high/full hp every time they get into a fight. Ofc, ce revives negate this as well, but it forces them to wait or choose, like everyone else.
Mind also that this isn't just swordies, but strikers. Gunners will be similarly affected, as they do the same thing. Landin' a hit on a gunner is hard enough as it is w/o knowin' that they're full hp every time you see them.
Cool, but is that a bug?
There are a few unlisted bonuses on the pvp classes to give them an edge. People just don't notice them as much because they don't come up so much; vortexes, for example, are rarely used.
First off: I have played guardian a fair bit, and I've never noticed the vortex bug.
I would like to say that I agree with Psychodestroyer: it's not that striker is OP, it's that the skill/money gap between the good players and amazing players is massive, and the current ranking system is appalling.
I really don't see how preventing healing would disadvantage strikers enough, since the best players I've watched in LD rarely need to heal.
Here's what I suggest:
Change the boost dynamic: Instead of 3 seconds of frenetic running, how about just a charge attack that damages everything in it's path and runs in a straight line, only ending when it hits an unfriendly player or a wall.
how about just a charge attack that damages everything in it's path and runs in a straight line, only ending when it hits an unfriendly player or a wall.
Yes, if only Strikers could do that.
On a more serious note, I tend to see some of the best strikers going back whenever the area gets quiet. They don't bail on a fight, but given any opportunity, a heal up increases chances to survive the next fight. The ones that never heal tend to either be absolute mega pros, or just people ready for suicides, or when they know they're against opponents they know they can beat easily. Mind that for strikers it only takes some 20 sec to heal and get back to the action, tops. On 3 point maps it's often faster than revving, excl long maps like Frostbite.
I was thinking more like Alistar's Headbutt
Doesnt switching classes/loadouts in the base auto-heal all your life anyways?
It'll only be a very small nuisance.
The ability to dash back and heal whenever you want is extremely OP, I actually have done some tests to see just how overpowered the striker class is, by playing LD with my normal weapons but in my proto gear. I'm a mediocre player, and with all the bonuses of the striker class, I was able to be not too far behind the rest of my party, and in some cases even have the highest damage, caps, and defends on my whole team while there were no other strikers.
^
Is entirely possible to do even when there are strikers on your team. I've seen folk in T1/2 loadouts (T3 weapons, mind you) taking home highest damage more than a few times.
EDIT: In fact, I know a few folk that run striker in Wolver/Dusker armour all the time. I'm uncertain if they're UVd at all, and they do use T3 weapons, but they play every match like that as a challenge, and perpetually get good scores.
Notice I said somewhere in that text blob I call a paragraph that I'm not too good of a player, I know many people who play T3 with lower star equipment.
Funny story, a few months back I was in a game with Contri, and he was using a fencing jacket and a cyclops cap, and he was doing better than me with my generic Skolver clone gear
Oh, was just pointing it out to anyone else reading to emphasise your point, was all~
i think all classes are the same is just that everyone prefer a fast paced game and doesn't practice with the other classes, also i've never used the heal pads anyway since they're to slow
This suggestion might have some merit if it weren't for a certain silly pay-to-win feature the developers decided to include to prevent PvP from having credibility. All this is going to do is encourage the abuse of energy revives, further increasing the gap between wealthy pay-to-win types and everyone else.
@Aotr:
You clearly haven't been trying out the other classes yourself then, if you have even the remote thought that striker is akin to the other classes.
@Thrillhaus:
I'd rather OP strikers have to throw away their energy to have a permanent presence on the field, than to just trade 5 seconds of their time to do so. Eventually, it won't be worth it, or they won't want to spend their ce on it. Suddenly, when that happens, they have to sit and wait for a rev.
Problem solved! :D
That would make Strikers the most useless class, ever.
Although strikers are made insanely fast by their boosters, the booster does run out. If they're stupid enough to boost all the way back to their base after every pip of damage, then that leaves whatever CP they were guarding unguarded for at least eight seconds at my last estimate.
Regardless, a boosting striker that suddenly runs out of boost will find him-herself very vulnerable, due to the loss of max HP and inability to use defensive maneuvers.
I don't think it's that Strikers are OP, it's that the people using Striker class are the 'OP ones'. They're strong, they have skill, so they screw tactics and just go for the fastest hard-hitting class there is; Striker.
Recon can be equally devastating. Going invisible only to appear in random spots around an enemy is enough to drive them crazy. I've seen one do that with a WRH, it was really disorientating. I died in less than two seconds (Then again, I suck).
But disallowing the Striker to heal is going to completely kill that class. That would mean the average Striker has the life span of two swordstrokes, so pretty much when they get hit, they're screwed.
Although tbh, they could probably just switch class, heal, then switch back.