Spiral Knights - Blatantly Overpowered Weapon in 3* PvP

Blatantly Overpowered Weapon in 3* PvP

38 replies [Last post]

Thu, 02/14/2013 - 09:39

Tin-Foil-Hat

Soo ive been playing PvP alot lately, and im in the 3* Bracket.

Its come to my attention after many games already that the Rocket Hammer is Blatantly Overpowered. Are there any plans on nerfing this weapon ? I cant speak for 5* but without a doubt the extra mobility from Shield Canceling, in addition to Speed boost, the weapon is absolutely absurd in the 3* Bracket.

Honestly, i dont want to waste my crowns on disappointing losses because players with the Rocket Hammer can stick to you like glue while dodging near every attack and kill you almost instantly. Id rather just buy Krogmo Coins for 200 crowns each if PvP is going to be this imbalanced, this isnt even including the additional weapon slot and trinket advantages.

Am i really going to have to deal with hammer spam to get another 150 krogmo coins so i can upgrade my weapon to 5* ? :l

Thu, 02/14/2013 - 09:43

Golgomath

There are strategies for

There are strategies for beating the hammers. Yes, the hammers are OP somewhat, but they are manageable.

Thu, 02/14/2013 - 09:46

Iron-Volvametal

lol o look itz dis thred ugen

Thu, 02/14/2013 - 09:48

Golgomath

XD +1 iron

Thu, 02/14/2013 - 10:04

Rpg-Knight

The gap youkai wonders.

Where's the thread? I see no thread here.

Thu, 02/14/2013 - 09:58

Sergeantwrench

+ 1 tooooo

Iron! Winning the common sense quote of this thread!

/clap

Thu, 02/14/2013 - 10:14

Nottheanswer

I just came out of a handful of T2LD games with you, Tin-Foil-Hat.

Hammer absolutely tears apart Guardians. Also people who don't run elemental resist. Also people holding charge attacks.

Seeing as you were playing Guard, running Cobalt Helm + Brute Jelly Mail, and primarily using Grintovec charges, you may want try to switching up your playstyle.

To reiterate what Golgomath said, yes, Hammers are strong. Can't deny that. But there are ways to deal with them.

Trinkets give a large advantage, but aren't a huge investment. Weapon slots aren't necessary.

If your goal is to avoid "Hammer spam" til you get to 150 Krogmos, try Blast Network. It isn't gear based, and there are enough people who play it that you can usually find a game.

Thu, 02/14/2013 - 10:10

Canozo

Brandish>Hammer

Thu, 02/14/2013 - 10:10

Tin-Foil-Hat

Nah you might of seen my gear

Nah you might of seen my gear but thats not what i was doing in the least, Grav Bomb Snaring Grintovec kills. Either way it doesnt matter, someone with hammer shouldnt be able to take out an entire team with it with mediocre skill.

Thu, 02/14/2013 - 10:12

Canine-Vladmir

derp.

i forgot. the 3* hammer is OP in T2.

Thu, 02/14/2013 - 10:22

#10

Gwenyvier

I love how it is always that

I love how it is always that the Hammer user is always either a spammer or has no/mediocre skills. Obviously it was not mediocre skill if they were taking out your entire team. It is actually easier to kill an entire team with a Flourish than a Hammer. The key to beating a Hammer user is to know how the Hammer moves. Either using one a lot or fighting against them a lot (or spectating might work also) can teach you the movements. That and Brandish charges normally will shut down a Hammer user... assuming you hit of course.

Mmmmmmm, you should see a Recon Hammer in the hands of somebody that knows how to uses it. That is nasty.

~Gwen

Thu, 02/14/2013 - 10:22

#11

Nottheanswer

Graviton Bomb is in some ways worse than Grintovec against hammers, since you have no attack without charging and at the same time don't leave a status mist for the Hammer user to lock themself in. If you're set on using a support bomb, try a 3* stun, freeze, or shock mist bomb. Bomber gear wouldn't hurt as well; at risk of repeating myself, being redundant, and saying the same thing over again, elemental resist will help.

The people in our matches using Hammer weren't "mediocre skill". I agree that Hammer can inflate damage, but that's ultimately not really what LD is about.

It basically comes down to this: there'll always be stuff that's strong. There'll always be stuff that's weak. Perfect balance in a game like this is pretty much mutually exclusive with the game remaining interesting (see in contrast the epic competitive sport known as "rock-paper-scissors"). If you want help with T2LD, I'd be willing to give advice and such.

Thu, 02/14/2013 - 10:22

#12

Ezio-Of-Almere

I hate hammers too, If they

I hate hammers too, If they were only elemental damage that would be fine......but that second combo ( boost ) MAKES ME ANGRY !!!

Hammers are OP but puslars are more spamming weapon.

Thu, 02/14/2013 - 10:24

#13

Ezio-Of-Almere

I hate hammers too, If they

I hate hammers too, If they were only elemental damage that would be fine......but that second combo ( boost ) MAKES ME ANGRY !!!

Hammers are OP but puslars are more spamming weapon.

EDIT : sorry that I made the post twice but there might be a bug or something.

Thu, 02/14/2013 - 10:34

#14

Tin-Foil-Hat

Well one of the bigger

Well one of the bigger problems with the Gravity Bomb that i just now noticed, is it isnt even keeping players inside the vortex, which defeats the purpose of even using it anymore. Im going to upgrade a freeze bomb when i get this chance since its clear the gravity bomb is far less superior to it.

Also to address the specific armor type, its hard to even gear up properly when players have FOUR weapon slots. Like i said though thats a separate topic but thats another clear issue in terms of balance.

Why isnt Lockdown set the same "Equal Weapons and Armor", thatd make alot more sense in terms of balance.

And about the blast network part, its boring. If i wanted to play bomberman i would go play bomberman :l

Thu, 02/14/2013 - 10:42

#15

Spicegirls

In my opinion, for something to be considered overpowered one combo of the weapon with only the striker damage increase will kill someone with no trinkets and full type resistance as guardian.

So in this case the attacker is a non-clone hammer striker and the defender is a guardian wearing full elemental set with no trinkets. I believe the hammer satisfies this condition.

Thu, 02/14/2013 - 11:28

#16

Little-Juances

"Also to address the specific armor type, its hard to even gear up properly when players have FOUR weapon slots. Like i said though thats a separate topic but thats another clear issue in terms of balance.

Why isnt Lockdown set the same "Equal Weapons and Armor", thatd make alot more sense in terms of balance."

Actually, if everyone had 2 weapons and a plain amor, no one would spend money on UVs, overpowered sets and slot spaces.
It's a neccesary evil that acts as a crown/energy sink.

Thu, 02/14/2013 - 12:52

#17

Troupe-Forums

Why not make everyone use the same stuff in ld?

Because then LD would lose most of it's fun factor, and then close to 90% of the endgame playerbase will disappear,taking with them their money.

Thu, 02/14/2013 - 13:55

#18

Iron-Volvametal

Don't be silly.

Lockdown was never intended to be fun.

Thu, 02/14/2013 - 13:56

#19

Mohandar

Here are some suggestions for

Here are some suggestions for balancing LD:
1. Remove heart pendants. This is the leading cause of striker overpoweredness. Without heart pendants, the class divisions will become much more even. I suspect it would fix some issues in the other tiers too.
2. Revise the health bonuses. Without pendants, strikers won't need the penalty and recons won't need as large of a bonus. Something like +0/+1/+2 x (tier) for striker/recon/guardian.
3. Make UVs count only as half a point toward status immunity, and scale the level required by tier--T3 might requires 8 points (7 for guardians), T2 might require 6 points (5 for guardians), and T1 might require 4 points (3 for guardians). Haze bomb immunity is a key part of the metagame, but immunity should force you to make compromises. So yes, you can be shock/freeze/stun immune, but you have to wear Shock-UV Ice Queen with shock trinkets.
4. Balance the rocket hammers. Their overall damage needs to be toned down, or split between normal and elemental. Or, give them a drawback like movement speed penalty: Low. After all, you are lugging around a big heavy hammer.

Thu, 02/14/2013 - 14:29

#20

Krakob

You know what's more OP than hammers?

Toothpicks.
Striker class bonuses.
Health trinkets.

You know what isn't OP?
Hammers. They're completely managable as long as you're not facing a wielder who is really skilled, in which case they'd beat you just as hard if they had trained using toothpicks instead.

Hint: if the hammer user is dashing with auto target enabled, just make sure to gain such range that the dash won't hit you but stay in range. Smack them in the face as they dash into you.

Thu, 02/14/2013 - 16:23

#21

Klipik

"Yes, the hammers are OP somewhat"

Isn't that enough reason to fix them?

"They're completely managable as long as you're not facing a wielder who is really skilled, in which case they'd beat you just as hard if they had trained using toothpicks instead."

The problem is that it's a lot easier to get good at hammer than toothpick, and hammer does more dps, is more mobile, has longer range, stronger combo, is better with auto target, and is exclusive to paying players.

Thu, 02/14/2013 - 16:28

#22

Iron-Volvametal

"The problem is that it's a lot easier to get good at hammer than toothpick, and hammer does more dps, is more mobile, has longer range, stronger combo, is better with auto target, and is exclusive to paying players."

Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuullspit.

Thu, 02/14/2013 - 16:52

#23

Zaffy-Laffy

Hammer is so noob, sealed sword is the way to go.

Thu, 02/14/2013 - 17:00

#24

Aquajag

Don't use a Gravity Bomb. The

Don't use a Gravity Bomb. The radius on a 3* vortex is... well, utter crap. They are best at 5*, no doubt, but of course you can't use that in T2 LD. And, even with 5*, players can break out of the vortex before it goes boom. Hard to do, striker boost alone doesn't always do it, but I suspect the hammer boost is a pretty solid guarantee. So, don't use the 3* vortex.

Depending on the gear your opponent is using, try freeze, stun, or shock. That should give you time to get off a charge.

And use brandish if you really want to feel the power.

Also, learn to dodge. It will help.

And remember what Ironskullkid said: LD was never meant to be fun.

Thu, 02/14/2013 - 18:39

#25

Gwenyvier

"The problem is that it's a

"The problem is that it's a lot easier to get good at hammer than toothpick, and hammer does more dps, is more mobile, has longer range, stronger combo, is better with auto target, and is exclusive to paying players."

The people with the highest damage numbers all use toothpicks, so obviously not more dps (remember though, damage means nothing... plenty of pics of 30k+ damage players on the losing team), mobility depends on the user, range I'll give you but it IS a heavy sword so the range should be decent, of course the combo is stronger... they're not using Elemental defense, AA on a hammer is a good way to die horribly, and yes it's only for paying players. Thankfully it's not exactly hard to scrounge up $6 to go to the grocery store to get a pre-paid visa/mastercard to buy it with, I managed to collect more then that when I was in school to blow on stupid things quite easily. So while I will give you your last point it's not hard to fix, even if the person is a kid in school.

~Gwen

Fri, 02/15/2013 - 09:44

#26

Retequizzle

spiral knights LD is a fun

spiral knights LD is a fun game where you swing swords at people and they swing back

and then everybody wins, and then they're happy together

i like to use fancy weapons like the hammer

it's boostery, and when you pull it out, it goes like dis

WHOOSH WHOOSH, FLIPPITY FLOOP WHOOSH FLIPPY FLIP

yatatatatatatatatatatatatata

Fri, 02/15/2013 - 09:54

#27

Iron-Volvametal

Quote: Retequizzle

"spiral knights LD is a fun-"

No, it's not.

Fri, 02/15/2013 - 12:20

#28

Bella-Donna

Hammers

I would do an in depth analysis on how to kill a hammer user, but i don't have the time. look at similar Ld threads where I discuss the various play styles adopted by hammer wielders.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 15:48

#29

Light-Cyborg

HAMMER

i use a hammer its a good weapon HOWEVER after playing PVP the weakness of the hammer might be the flourish in speed stats

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 16:16

#30

Zephyrgon

Health in LD

Okay lemme post something here. Trinkets are only broken as hell in T1 and T2 Lockdown. There is actually a HUGE health debuff for strikers in T3 LD. I tested it.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 17:50

#31

Dragonuity

Even with the recon buff.

Even with the recon buff. Recon hammers are still pretty easy to dispose of compared to strikers with ASI VH on FF and GF.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 17:56

#32

Nexassassin

Don't do it.
Don't say it's fun.
DO NOT SAY IT--

LD is fun. I said it.

Tue, 02/19/2013 - 05:47

#33

Dr-Storm

how to beat a hammer user

1. gang bang with gun
2. gang bang with sword
3. use hammur ( he/she smack you, you smack back)
4. use sf (stab him/her for being slow and clunky)
5. use antigua (yeah this is slow...but you'll be safe while he is dead and annoyed)
6. use polaris ( Spam! Spaam for your life!)
7. bomber combo with friends using lightning capacitor + super blast bomb+ fiery vaporizer mk II+ deconstructor ( make hammer clone says "WTF NOOB!", and stand there like a statue)
8. dance near a trap...(he combo he die :D )
9. alchemer corner shot...(He'll got confuse and feels unsecure as he didn't know where the bullets will go + if he is at the corner and your alchemer is fully charge it will be an instant death to him)
10.whole team guardian gang bang...(the shield is almost unbreakable if all guardians stays together...:D)
11. Ignore him/her, just runaway when you see him/her ( they'll have a mental meltdown if you do that as they will scream noob!NOOB! coward! come back here...please?T^T ....I wanna kill you so I can brag about my damage...T>T)

Tue, 02/19/2013 - 06:11

#34

Raisinfist

My 2 cents

As a hammer and Static Capping Recon in T2 LD, I know what I'm talking about, OK?

-AA is a stupidly easy way to get killed. It pushes you into the person targeted, dealing no damage, upon which they smack you. Aiming to one side of them (works for monsters, too) will ensure hits on the dash.
-The main problem with hammers compared to toothpicks is their erratic movement. I can end up simply going past someone, cloaking, repeating.
-If you get a hit in and stall a combo, the aforesaid hammer user is in the deep stuff. Being mobile is its counter to being slow.
-Best strategy to countering hammers? Get a good, movement-slowing, haze bomb, whether it's Stun, Freeze, or Shock. Bring a buddy or two - you don't need the entire team to go chasing after one player, much as I would like that to happen - then all attack him. Disorganized mobs are easy to escape from, so either focus on killing the hammer user or capping the point. You can't do both or the hammer user will periodically sneak up on you and deal a fair lick of damage.
-Complaining about hammers? STAY AWAY FROM THEM. They're a SWORD. Their worst enemy is anything ranged (the old RSS lines and guns), except Autoguns, which you shouldn't be using in PvP anyway.
-Problems with the Striker boost? Get Striker yourself, or learn how to sneak away as Recon. Guardians are sitting ducks, and their shield is mincemeat for the Hammer.

~Shameless Hammer User

Tue, 02/19/2013 - 14:28

#35

Burntsouls

Play BN or hit someone and go

Play BN or hit someone and go afk.

Tue, 02/19/2013 - 19:56

#36

Klipik

Oh no.

this. Specifically, this part.

Tue, 02/19/2013 - 21:13

#37

Bella-Donna

Hammers

First, I enjoyed tearing teams apart with the hammer. And I played some matches with you and well, TBH hammers are not OP if you learn how to beat them.

Get some Elemantal hoods/cloaks for when hammer users are in play. Note Hammers deal pure elemental damage. Hammer users usually fall into 4 categories I went over in a different LD thread, search for it.

Easy to beat noobs get around 1k or less, harder players who know more of the ins and outs of the weapon get 3-6k damage. I have once gotten 14k damage once in T2 with it but I know SF users who have achieved 16k damage.

Also, guardians are UP, grab a striker boost like everyone else.

Also your jelly armor is UP.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:05

#38

Bella-Donna

Hammer counter

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/75224#comment-654865

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Blatantly Overpowered Weapon in 3* PvP