P2p Worked hard to get those hammers and payed a good price for it.

He says at the end:

Maybe OOO will lose some of the customers with low self-esteem who loved to cut people down in a few hits and call them noobs, because they cannot use their favorite spam-tool anymore, but overall, I think the effect would be a positive one and would benefit the game, overall.

In other words, he doesn't care. Besides, they nerfed the shadow bomb right after the OCH went live and no one left the game. :3

Okay okay, a LOT of people left the game...because the OCH was P2P content...

@Little-Juances

True

@OP

Actually, I happen to agree. Yes, the others may be surprised, but I think they make PvE too easy, as well. I mean, what kills a Zombie faster than a Hammer? What corner locks Gremlins better than a Polaris? Even if you nerfed the damage of the Polaris, it would still be just as effective. It needs a bit of a smaller radius. (After all, it is too bomb like. <3) The hammer needs to do less damage on the dash, but otherwise it's fine in all respects. (Look at the Skolvers in FSC. They pretty much ONLY dash. That's how much damage it does!)

The point about hammers is that the hammer is a premium weapon. Even though I own OCH, I don't use the hammer often. Because it's a premium weapon, it highly encourages getting OCH for something other than the levels in it: the weapon.

The weapons complained of here are both used in FSC most often. I believe that's why they are asked to NOT be nerfed: They take any touch of challenge in FSC away. Trollaris by corner locking and Hammer by instant killing.

So that makes both weapons the best of both the Clockworks and Lockdown. Isn't there something wrong with this?

(Okay, toothpicks sorta beat hammers, but they don't get so much range.)

EDIT: Haha I type faster than Klipik...maybe...
Never mind....

I'm not so good with a hammer in a Lockdown but I'm pretty good with it in PvE. I die a lot as I use my hammer in Lockdown so that proves that it's just plain skill and it isn't overpowered.

Compare Hammer to SS. The 2nd hit of the SS is risky because it's fairly slow. The Hammer gets a 2nd strike which is faster and dislocates the user, making it a method of dodging if your shield is broken or something.

And still, everyone is talking about PvP. In PvP you can deal with it unless the user is one who is quite skilled, and even then... In PvE, those poor Zombies don't stand a chance. (Ok, they didn't already, but now they can't land a hit. >.<)

EDIT: the point isn't that Pulsars are weak. The point is they can 1) blanket a large area, 2) they give a blast bomb's worth of knockback, and 3) the bullets are slow. (This may sound bad, but being slow makes it worse; it's more time for the bullet to hang around.) Now, you can say that the close range is a weak point, but compare it to bombs. You have to position yourself properly and shoot. With bombs, you have to position yourself (which is usually a bit close to the enemy unless you are kiting), drop the bomb you are charging (and you can't shield while charging), and usually run and/or wind up another bomb.

Because Polaris has AoE w/out charges, this makes it, in many ways, superior to bombs. Usually a user is NOT looking for damage, but knockback. The guy above me said you get a low damage output. Getting 6k or 20k of damage in LD doesn't win the game, point control does. You use knockback to keep them away.

PROTO GUN SHOULD BE NERFED!!
ITZ OP!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111!!!!!!1!!!!!!1!!!!!11111!!1!!!!!!1111!!!oneoneoenoeoneoneone

Hammer and pulsar are actually not that good weapons. Hammer has a lot of damage, but it's easy to kill a hammer user. Pulsar is also a nice weapon, but it's a lot easier to dodge than normal guns since it's a lot slower. So no need to nerf. I paid good money for my hammer man.

I use pulsar line a lot, and it's really easy to get killed with it because :
A. It's slow
B. It gives away where you are
C. Recons/Strikers can easily dodge it and kill the shooter.

I don't use the hammer but:
a. It leaves them really vulnerable
b. It's terrible against 1/3 of the population and ok against 1/3 of the population
c. It makes them really weak against recon/striker

So don't get rid of it.

I liked the part when Warmaster Rocket Hammer was claimed to be OP because it can destroy a Guardian's shield in two combos and that is OP only because it's a P2P item.
Ever heard of these things called Divine Avenger and Gran Faust? Yeah uh... They can destroy a Guardian's shield in one combo.

I uh... I need to talk to you in private.
See uh... I've gotta break it to you, so I'll get straight to the point.
THERE ARE ASPECTS OF SPIRAL KNIGHTS OTHER THAN LOCKDOWN.

I dunno if you have seen yourself, but as far as I'm concerned, staying close to an enemy bomber and shoving a toothpick up their area denying body parts. If it's a matter of a shield, Sentenza takes care of it.

Anyway, if you're complaining about overpowerdness, why do you bother with these two when there are say, toothpicks? You know, those weapons that deal pure piercing damage at the level of medium-slow speed weapons and at the speed of well, toothpicks. They are one of the three fastest weapons, the other two lines both dealing normal damage, one being close to obsolete in Lockdown.

Have you ever partied with a Polaris user in clockworks?
"I got this zombie, dont wait up---err hey! What the heck? why you push him back to the totem radius???!!!"
How about that hammer?
"What the @#$% man? Your charge attack sent a whole battalion of mech-knights at me!"

T3 is mad easy. Polaris, PokeSticks, hammers, Etc do not add to the cause of difficulty.

again foo, "Simply put, i want balanced weapons, noobs want to keep their freakisly powerful weapons."
Balanced Weapons...as in All weapons get balanced.

@thunder um...of course. We all seen it and probably done it. Yet the X% chance of happening, not very likely.
same as in FPS genre. "Camping Noobs arent a problem as you can take them out when there not looking"

I found something on the wiki which will clarify the situation:

When taking damage from shock, monster's defense is briefly but significantly lowered.

In other words, while you are immobile, any damage taken is AMPLIFIED.

(Unless this is outdated. Source.)

Despite the WRH's dash being a mighty fine move, it doesn't make the hammer immensely OP. If you were change it, I'd suggest increasing the time you're vulnerable after the dash, as opposed to dropping the damage and whatnot. If you pulled out the dash, WRH would just be "another heavy sword".

It's been awhile since I've had the hammer out, but I believe the DA does slightly more damage in PvE. If that's the case, the cost for getting a WRH seems pointless.

It tips the balance in the favor of players who may have some more financial backing, and introduces an elitist attitude in LD.
If there's an option to pay, you create that gap. People will pay for weapons that are generally better than the freebie counterparts, but I doubt they'd pay for a weapon that's on-par, or worse, not as good, as the freebies.

On that note, WRH and DR should both be that bit better, as you are required to pay. If you want to be cheap and not pay, don't be surprised that those that do, do better (I'm afraid, that's how the world works).

i died in a matter of 2 full hammer combos by a player who demonstrated incompetency with other weapons
The shield breaks to most "full combos", not just the hammer's. That issue is with the shield, being as weak as it is; not the hammer's strength.

Simply put, i want balanced weapons, noobs want to keep their freakisly powerful weapons.
No. You want the strengths of weapons to be removed, so every weapon is identical in functionality, granting no additional abilities or powers beyond the "jack-of-all-trades" weapon. Complete balancing is pretty much impossible, unless you want a dull game.

Hell, if balancing properly existed in SK, we wouldn't be seeing Skolver clones, and the like. The preferred is the better gear. Anything else is obsolete.

People just want the problematic areas balanced; not the actual game.

Probably the most significant issue found in LD is that universally hated Auto Target. Why not automatically disable it for LD? That way, hammer dash attacks are less reliable.

As for Polaris; all I'd suggest is the removal of the shock, and shift Supernova to Shadow instead of Normal.

This is the suggestions forum, not the complaints forum. You should try to detail not just why you think there is a problem, but propose some attempt at fixing it. I would suggest slightly decreasing the T1/2 hammer damage, or adding a drawback like movement speed decrease. As for the Polaris, I would suggest a reduction in the expanded bullets' hitboxes, and cutting the rate of shock to slight or fair. It is certainly more bomb-like than gun-like, so maybe OOO will apply Radiant Sun Shards logic here...

I’m surprised it took you this long to post this, you've been talking about it every LD game I see you in for the last few months. ¬.¬

Now let me break down your post...
_______________________________________________________________________

"It is an unfair advantage that the pay-to-play players have when with a few swings, they can destroy a guardian shield, and in another two, kill the guardian."

Sealed Swords do this too.

"Aside from this, players are constantly scorned for not having these weapons, as they are considered "noobs" if they don't, and are told that they possess no skill simply because their weapons aren't as good.

No... they're not? The only time I see players get called "noobs" is when they have lower level gear - 2* for T2 or 4* for T3. I haven't even seen that as much in T3, either because I haven't played much of it or because more 5* are actually mature enough not to do that kind of thing. Not drawing a correlation between gear level and player maturity, but some of the more immature and impatient players don't make it to 5*. But regardless, if you have the right star level of gear, you won't get ridiculed too much.

"Or when someone with proto armor and a hammer killed an entire team with one life."

Whoever you were facing, I can assure you they definitely knew what they were doing. Even with how powerful the Hammer+AT combination is, it takes some serious skill to kill an entire team without taking a hit. They probably weren't even using AT, because it would probably hurt them in that situation.

"Or when a kilo-pulsar wielder wore proto armor and killed a bomber, an alchemer gunner, and a Dusker clone in a matter of seconds."

(seconds*)
This is virtually impossible, unless you're talking about a large number of seconds or the opposing team was stacked up in the corner or already injured.

_______________________________________________________________________

I agree that the Hammer could probably use a bit of a nerf. Somewhat. The pulsar doesn't need a nerf per se, more like a change. Like they did with Shard Bombs. *runs away from Zeddy and Oatmonster and Luguiru and Aumir* Same reasoning, too - Shard bombs were too gun-like? Well then, Pulsars are too bomb-like.

BEGIN THE REBALANCING THINGY!
~~

PRH/SRH/WRH
• -I understand that these weapons were unique because of their release as part of a DLC (which I don't like either, but that's a topic for a different post), but "different" or "unique" didn't have to end up being "better". I sincerely hope that OOO's plan wasn't to make these weapons better than the existing weapons of their respective star levels, because if it was then that's just plain bad business that can only hurt them in the end. We'll assume they were intended to be balanced for now.
• The hammer is not the best weapon at anything in PvP, besides (arguably) killing. It's slower than the flourish, more dangerous to use than the SS, and has a less useful charge than the Brandishes. However, its mobility and combo allow it to be combined with the Auto Target system to produce the second-most newbie-friendly weapon in the game, with first place going to the Calibur lines. (Mash buton, slash slash slash. Hold buton, spinny slash. yay.) This allows it to be “spammed” with much more effectiveness than it should have by players who have no actual skill.(See this and this for more of me ranting about spam.)
• The previously mentioned drawbacks (speed, danger, and charge attack) are nowhere near serious enough.
➢ The different speed bars between the Hammer and a Flourish might make it seem like a large difference, but in reality it’s not that big. I’ve been in situations where my TSB(playing guardian) has gone up against a SRH(striker), and my swings have been the same speed or maybe even slower. And that’s from a simple ASI low granted by the Striker class.
➢ The danger of using the dash (catapulting yourself into hazards, waiting enemy players with charges, etc) is minimalized in the case of enemy players by the fact that you can pretty much smash them in the face with the third hit before they can get anything off. As for hazards, only a few LD maps have them and you can just boost back to base and heal or sit and heal off the damage if you’re a guardian.
➢ No one uses the charge attack anyways. And the casting time is so short that it doesn’t really leave you vulnerable for very long.
• In tier 2 at least, nothing can compare to it in terms of damage per hit. In T3, the WRH has the DA and GF as other slow, high-damage specialized swords. Because the SRH in T2 is the only non-normal damage heavy sword, and being pure elemental to boot, it ends up dealing more DPS than any other T2 PvP weapon, even with the correct armor. I don't have numbers for this, but I'm fairly sure you can kill an elemental with a Hammer faster than you can kill a Dusker with a TSB or SF. Unless none of the elementals I've seen go up against a Hammerer didn’t have trinkets. But I think that's unlikely, given how much LD I play. The only other heavy swords at the 3* level are the Troika line swords and the SS. They all have two-hit combos instead of three, and they all do normal damage. And they have worse charge attacks.
• The only thing the hammer would be worse at killing than the other heavy swords would be a Drake Scale user. Do you see many of those?

So, what do we do?

• Make it slower.
• Add normal damage.
• Make it less responsive to Auto Target.

PULSARS
This part is easy.

• 1-shot clip.
• Chance to afflict shock reduced by one degree.

There. Rebalance done. Simple.

Here's a thought.
in Lockdown, weapons are at level 1. Why not change Hammers stat at level 1? heck, why not change most lockdown weapon stats at level 1?
It would make a quick fix for now. Than weapons at entire game could get nerfed/buffed. In the end, the level 10 weapon stat would not change at all.

Pulsar can have one clip. I like that much. but for another idea. Switch the damage numbers around. Pulsar would do most damage at close, and after traveling, it gets weaker. Switcharoo. this, with the first idea that stats would change only at level 1, might work.

People don't call people noobs for not having hammers. I have been called a noob almost ever LD match I play because I use a hammer. I get 6k to 8k damage on average with it in T2 which is normal for the better players and yet I still get called a noob.

I play to have fun and have taken out over 5 people with a hammer and flamberge, dusker set and yet I still get called a noob.

I wrote in detail upon The hammers many faults that can be used to hit the users of it in the achillies heel. and yet I still get called a noob.

I have an extensive arsenal, been through every SL, and yet in LD I still get called a noob.

When do people start respecting me for my skill? The hours I put into the game? The time I spent mastering the ins and outs of the mechanics of the hammer? Never. People troll and disrespect the hammer and blame not their faulty strategy or choices, but rather the other person's weapon all because teenagers hate to admit they have any fault or the other person is better.

Hammers require a bit more skill then your usual sword, it's not a toothpick where you slash, dash, the slash again, hammers have a much slower swing making them less the adequate for going up against toothpicks, heck it's even slower the the GF.

With the hammer you need to master shield canceling, because if you perform the full out 3 hit swing you'll usually end up heading straight towards a hazard or leaving yourself wide open for attack. Pulsars on the other hand ARE your pick up and spam weapon, but with enough skill some mouse/trackpad skills you can easily dodge the spam, plus pulsar bullets are slow, making them easier to dodge then an AP bullet, while they do have a much larger size at long distance spamming them up close doesn't do so good, since pulsar bullets are way weaker up close. Although I have to agree the pure spam these things produce is evil in the fact that people have WAY too much of any easy time getting shock in PVP, not to mention the lag I go through with like 10 of these per LD match.

TL;DR
Hammers are fine, AA+three hit combo spam is easy to dodge, only experienced hammer users are really dangerous in PVP, load outs work perfectly fine for this. Pulsar is laggy, spammy and frankly annoying, I would want a tone down on the animation of it, but not a nerf, it's just annoying not OP.

i say to either take one "block" of length out of the hammer lunge or make the lunge a tad slower and make the vulnerability frames between combos a tiny bit longer to allow people to actually catch up to the hammer lunge, but the hammer user can still retaliate smoothly. (Same damage, slower speed essentially) That would make me a happy player :3

the OP's problem with these weapons isnt beacuse there damage is op its because there funtions make them op polaris has 3 bullet clip, knock-back, and shock(good chance at it too) the hammer on the other hand ill leave alone cause any thing u pay money for deserves to be better but when u look at it it destroys slags like nothing in ld u can zip around like super fast swing slide away swing and its not that much weaker than DA or GF but again u payed for it so its ok

as other people mentioned the toothpicks, actually just FF and BTB, u cant go any ld match with out atleast 3/4 of the palyers using FF or BTB, Polaris, and DA or GF and i mean all of them at the same time (weapon slot 1,2,3) so in theory all these weapons need to be nerfed but i say no they need to be put in a different tier

i propose tier S which would require a cost of 1200 to 1600ce to craft them since when u think about there damage out put isn't that much higher (but is higher) than other weapons and or they have superiority over the other weapons based on functions (statuses, knock-back, speed, clip size, etc.) here a list of weapons that need to be put in tiers S

Blitz
Polaris
GF (increase damage noticably over DA and make it so u can curse your self on all swings (with lowered cursed status of course)
mabye DA
neutralizer(ive seen this obliterate a group of slags it was awsome 400 damage per bullet haha talk about over powered)
bio hazard( i assume would be even more powerful than neutralizer against slimes and grems)

i cant think of any more at the moment add if u can

weapons that need to be nerfed........................................... BRANDISHES!!! they have it all high power, 3hit (6 on charge), decent speed, knock back, and statuses

1: Stop complaining and get balanced gear
2: Run, don't stand there like a sitting duck
3: use something besides striker
4: Stop complaining.

What weapons do you even use in LD?
I use pulsar and boltrand and i get killed all the time.

Proto Bomb deals stun better than the Haze bomb line!

Nerf it!

Shivermist is OP it's freezing me and I can't do squat but die!!!!

NERF IT IT'S OP...

/sigh

Polaris is fine, Rocket Hammer is fine... L2P and get better, we learn more from our mistake than our wins...

It's when you are back against a wall that you put all your might into your soul and start playing. A lot of time I've been back against the wall and just pushed through...

Polaris blocking your way? Drivers them out... Rocket hammer is bothering you? Cover yourself with Tempest/Shivermist...

Play as a team, don't go as lone wolf, you will die and you will rage and we will see dumb comment on the forums about it...

Shaman, read my post.

I dont care about pulsars
but the hammer, along with sealed sword line is a HEAVY WEAPON
meaning SLOW AND HARD HITTING
it is completely fine and insanely easy to counter
and "catch up", the first swing and dash together are just short of regular running speed, its not hard to evade that either