Spiral Knights - Venom Veiler and Stagger Storm

Venom Veiler and Stagger Storm

20 respuestas [Último envío]

Jue, 02/21/2013 - 22:50

Burq

How come I never hear about these 2 haze bombs? Every time I ask around for opinions on the haze bombs, everyone goes "Get Shiver (for Vana and SLs) and Ash of Agni or Voltaic Tempest... hell get both and use them at the same time!" but no one ever recommends the other 2. I get that the stat they inflict isn't that good (and in SS's case, a bit of a pain to get thanks to being a pvp reward) but it seems combined with other haze bombs or weapons that inflict other stats, they would make a really powerful combination, specially in 4 man teams.

As a side question: to people that have these 2 bombs, do you like them? Do you find them great, useful or just simply fun? Any tips on using them you could share?

Jue, 02/21/2013 - 23:03

Zeddy

I have every bomb in the game. Ask me anything.

Venom Veiler is a bit too situational for people's tastes. People like to kill things faster and VV only sometimes help you do that. The rest of the time it just substantially reduces incoming damage. Defence is not very appreciated in this game. Combined with proper defence, the amount of damage you take from a poisoned enemy is pretty low, in SK terms at least. I find the bomb to be absolutely invaluable when there are gremlin healers around. Silkwings are usually taken out easily using Ash or DBB or something, but gremlins menders can heal themselves or others and when there are several of those afoot, nothing saves the day quite like a VV.

There are rumours circulating that Venom Veiler will make healers kill enemies for you. These rumours are entirely true and you should prepare your evillest laugh if you have a VV and see three or more healers around.

Combine with Ironmight Plate Mail if you want to legitimately tank hits in Lockdown.

Stagger Storm is very helpful. Like Venom Veiler, it's defensive and will let you avoid damage much easier. People have spent a lot of time in the game not using Stagger Storm and therefore learned to avoid enemies that aren't stunned. Still, I cannot emphasise enough just how incredibly easy this bomb makes things. It doesn't slow down turn rate, so it's not very helpful on, say, Vanaduke, but you can still slow the crap out of crowds with it.

Combine with Voltaic Tempest and your enemies are pretty much immobilised. I highly recommend bringing it if you're playing on the wrong server and need the extra time to react.

Note that Stagger Storm is kind of replacable with Sun Shards.

Jue, 02/21/2013 - 23:19

Batabii

VV is only really useful with

VV is only really useful with a lot of menders.
SS's stun has too short of a duration.

Vie, 02/22/2013 - 00:04

Feline-Grenadier

...

Tempest's anchors down enemies with shock which also does damage. The shock can go on for a bit...

Stagger Storm just keeps the enemy still, but no damage. Which means that most of the damage comes from the guy who's running into the cloud...

Vie, 02/22/2013 - 01:06

Aureate

...actually

there are quite a lot of times when I would much rather have Venom Veiler than Ash of Agni.
/le shock horror
There are also people who use Stagger Storm instead of Shivermist Buster for Vanaduke runs. I personally find Stagger Storm to be more helpful in general, since it doesn't, oh, say, lock enemies in your face where you can't shieldbump them away.

Vie, 02/22/2013 - 01:46

Orbwanter

If you want to use the Rocket Hammer's charge attack on a big crowd without getting yourself killed, planting Stagger Storm first helps a lot. I assume it'd also pair well with Cutters, if you want to go total hipster.

Vie, 02/22/2013 - 03:10

Terra-Necro

@Batabii Um, wouldn't it not

@Batabii Um, wouldn't it not matter that much since the area and duration of the initial stagger storm bomb would be more than sufficient to render a crowd immobile and allow other teammates to pick them off? I mean, if stun lasted longer, imagine how screwed enemies (and people in pvp) would be.

Vie, 02/22/2013 - 04:20

Troupe-Forums

Many of the ld bombers I play with use the venom veiler murderously, and the swagger storm is a commonly used haze in ld.

Vie, 02/22/2013 - 23:08

Batabii

But freeze LOCKS them into

But freeze LOCKS them into place for several seconds, much longer than Stun. The only reason to use stun is so you can still shield push them, and because hardly anything resists stun.

Sáb, 02/23/2013 - 03:13

Forumchat

one does not simply

one does not simply shivermist a skolver clone

Sáb, 02/23/2013 - 03:31

#10

Krakob

@Batabii
If we're speaking PvP, Skolvers are resistant to Shiver.
If we're speaking PvE, Swagger Storm has the following major advantage: it completely obsoletes some enemies, such as Mechas, Crusaders and uh... I think maybe Kats? Anyway, Crusaders can't attack at all while stunned and Mechas can barely, IIRC. Using stun is also somewhat safer since it can be hard to traverse an area with many locked enemies.

@Burq, Zeddy, Vinnydime, Aureate, and Orbwanter
You're all spelling Swagger Storm wrong. You should learn from Troupe!

Sáb, 02/23/2013 - 04:28

#11

Little-Juances

I hardly see anyone use shivermist outside of Vana or some SL runs either.

Thing is these bombs only provide support to kill enemies easily. But the game is easy as is without them, and you'd do things faster if you just kill everything instead of setting up bombs with fancy effects, sadly.

Sáb, 02/23/2013 - 09:23

#12

Fehzor

Stagger storm is interesting though, in that it slows everything down in an area, which makes it much easier to dodge and hit things, allowing you to do things that you would otherwise be unable to do, like run through enemies dropping more stagger storms. This can be very powerful, if your team is able and willing to kill the things that you're stunning... or it can be very weak, if you have no team.

Venom Veilor helps you in one of the largest situations that you're likely to need help in- when fighting menders. Aside from that, it can be used to make your shield effectively stronger by making their attacks weaker... and it can make you/your party deal a bit more damage. Its main strength is with the menders though. If you run ash of agni+venom veilor, you can switch between ash and venom depending on whether there is a mender or not. Menders can deal a ridiculous amount of damage too.

Feel free to friend me in game if you'd like to see these used.

@Krakob
Actually, they patched it. Stagger storm no longer disables enemies... the stun fix was a huge nerf on stun because of this imo. Sure, you can use it safely now like you're supposed to, but I'd rather be able to nullify mechas etc. with it.

@Zeddy
My problem with using sun shards for stun is that I can't constantly keep them stunned... while stagger storm provides a large area of stun, shards tend to burst rapidly and leave enemies unstunned- constantly stunning and unstunning enemies is dangerous.

Sáb, 02/23/2013 - 13:46

#13

Aureate

@Batabii

If you lock enemies into my face whilst I'm in the middle of them, I will be extremely unhappy. St- Swagger Storm does at least leave the option of shield bumping available, although the movement restrictions inflicted on enemies is generally less.

Dom, 02/24/2013 - 01:09

#14

Batabii

I'm not saying SS is useless,

I'm not saying SS is useless, just that most people just get shivermist and be done with it. I don't see a lot of cases where SS would be a straight upgrade to SMB. The whole "lock enemies into my face" argument is counterbalanced by enemies changing speed randomly as they enter or leave the stun cloud.

Lun, 02/25/2013 - 00:22

#15

Burq

huh, didnt knew stun changed that much

I eventually plan to get all the haze bombs, thou after reading the thread (I wasnt expecting these many replies!) I'll bump the order of the VV a tad up: menders are one of the biggest problems I've encountered when playing all bombs and I'd love to play support more often so the damage debuff sounds pretty neat.

I'm still not entire sold on the Stagger Storm, specially after reading how little the effect lasts, so it will probably be the last Haze bomb I'll get... thou is it true that this bomb is a great choice to bring to UFSC since shiver doesnt work on super vana?

Also another question: what is the best combination of haze bombs (VT and SS, VV and AoA, etc)? Which would be the best for a casual run through the clockworks or a SL? What other bombs do haze bombs pair up great with?

Second also, thanks everyone for all the posts; it's been pretty informative!

Lun, 02/25/2013 - 00:28

#16

Batabii

To be honest, I also don't

To be honest, I also don't like having to grind krogmo coins for a SECOND bomb. If I could just buy the recipe my impressions might be slightly better. For now I'm mostly going by my experience with the 2* haze bomb, other weapons with Stun, and what I've heard about stagger storm

Lun, 02/25/2013 - 00:54

#17

Zeddy

@Burq

I haven't fought Darkfire Vana yet, but I have been trying alternatives to shivermist. Stagger Storm will make Vana attack slower, but VT will make him turn slower as well as stop his dash up at times. Storm is more reliable, Tempest has a reliable effect.

VT and SS makes the enemy practically harmless while AoA and VV makes for dying, harmless group of enemies that can't heal. The latter is great for kiting in arenas but VT/SS is very handy for staying safe in tougher areas.

Vortex+VT is a splendid combination. You may already know that shocked enemies have an area of effect with each tick. Vortex will gather the enemies so that all of them take damage with each tick of each monster. While Electron Vortex does shock on its own, it will not shock every single enemy in the group as VT would. Some people will tell you that VT is not a damage bomb, but I think 50 damage per tick at 3 or 4 ticks per second on a group of about six enemies is pretty respectable. The damage will only increase as you gather even more enemies into the group.

You can use Shiver or VT to prevent the knockback from blast bombs or shard bombs, allowing you to rack up damage faster.

Lun, 02/25/2013 - 17:49

#18

Orbwanter

He seemed immune to Stagger as well on my last UFSC run.

Lun, 02/25/2013 - 19:05

#19

Senorclean

VV=poison to reduce dmg you

VV=poison to reduce dmg you take (mainly for monster that are hard to dodge or hit hard like trojans) and to prevent healing (for gremiln healers) and the extra dmg is just useless for bombs due to the little dmg it does compare to other weps
SS=to make dodging more easier also to immobilize the monsters and use it with AoA to burn and easily plant a VV or something
VT=same thing as SS, but also as another way to add extra dmg if the enemy is immune to fire
shiver=to plant dmging bombs safely and to increase your DPS (gather alot of monster, freeze, and plant dmging bombs like nitro/DBB)
AoA=fire dmg

Combination
vortex+AoA=vortex to gather up monsters, AoA for the fire dmg and vortex for shock, so your getting shock dmg and fire dmg on a group of monsters and is probably pretty dmging if there arent immune to them
VT+SS=both immobilize monsters pretty well, so your like invincible
AoA+VV=VV prevents healing, AoA does dmg
nitro+vortex=vortex monsters, and then nitro monsters into the vortex, so most of the enemies get shocked and shock spreads between the enemies, and also nitro adds extra dmg than just shield bumping them into it and nitro has more knockback anyways and hits more monsters too

Mar, 02/26/2013 - 02:10

#20

Batabii

The only thing I use VT (or,

The only thing I use VT (or, specifically, plasma capacitor) against consistently is Kats and Mechas since they're the only monster families that even flinch from it. Against everything else (except fire themed strata of course) it's like a less reliable AoA.

Also wouldn't it be better to vortex into nitro rather than vice versa? Pull them in, then blast them all at once. And the shock keeps them from getting sent flying so you can chain it again.

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Venom Veiler and Stagger Storm