Spiral Knights - What bombs need.

What bombs need.

14 replies [Last post]

Fri, 07/26/2013 - 14:56

Diamondshreddie

I am here today to stress a balance issue here, so just listen and see with your ears.

Overall, despite how much others may object, the three weapon types are all fairly balanced in their own respect.

Swords) + High damage, reliable interrupt.
- must be close to your target, *may affect your ability to move freely while attacking.

Guns) + Allows damage to be dealt at range, allows the user to keep a safe distance, and concentrate on dodging incoming projectiles
- fairly low damage, may slow (or halt*) your movement while firing, requires a reload for firing a full clip within (X time).

Bombs) + Creates an area of effect within the blast radius affecting multiple enemies, weapon type offers most utility options, sexy.
- Less effective when mobs are few, does not benefit significantly from ASI, limited to charge-attack-only, punishes you for trying to put away a bomb early, has to wait a fuse time before detonation, visually disruptive to party members.

Now, as most of you should agree, bombs have the metaphorical short stick when it comes to innate attributes. Out of all the numerous ways you could possibly balance things out for bombs, I believe the most simple and logical course of action would be to implement a way for bombs to get benefit from ASI. Typically, this should affect the fuse time of the bomb after placement. I know this is a drastic change to deal with, and slightly uncomfortable for some, but after some getting used to, I think that it could work just fine. (maybe then add bomb ASI low to each piece of merc demo? just a thought)

All in all, I think that giving bombs the same chance to be better as the other weapon types should bring them on par in their own niche, and be a considerable sidearm for hybrid players. Thanks for listening, this has probably been suggested more than once before~

Feedback is appreciated, thanks.

Fri, 07/26/2013 - 15:18

Luguiru

Who the liquids is that box

One idea I remember seeing (which might have come from myself, it was an indefinably long time ago in a galaxy far away) for bombs was a new bonus as a replacement for attack speed on bombs: after-effect duration extension. This applies to all bombs that do something other than the initial detonation: Vaporizer clouds, Graviton/Electron suction, Seerus bomb spin time, and for the new shard bombs decreasing the time between the initial detonation to the shards popping. The biggest problem with this is its complete lack of benefit for Blast lines and Barrage line.

A couple simple ideas many have kicked around and left bleeding on the street are fuse time reduction and radius increase. If they want to be able to say they gave bombers something without digging deep. Like quitters.

Fri, 07/26/2013 - 15:39

Hearthstone

Hey! Luguiru posted!

Although I care not much for bombing, I + 0.5 this.

Fri, 07/26/2013 - 15:45

Diamondshreddie

Thanks

Thank you, my box dwelling amigo

Fri, 07/26/2013 - 16:15

Little-Juances

For blast bombs it could give more knockback and for DBB cause enemies to flinch/interrupt their attacks more easily.

Sat, 07/27/2013 - 09:33

Oboron

More knockback on blast bombs?

@Little Juances - Now why would you want more knockback on blast bombs when gunners and swordsmen already complain about it's knockback? It would just increase the hate towards (pure) bombers and bombing, something that shouldn't even be there.

Sat, 07/27/2013 - 09:36

Diamondshreddie

@Fallen-knight

I agree to some extent, but knockback and interrupt is an important thing for bombs. Personally I believe we already have a good selection of knockback intensity options to choose from, but not enough bombs interrupt very well. I think reliable interruption of attacks should be present on a number of existing bombs.

Sat, 07/27/2013 - 17:36

Father-Frost

"I agree to some extent, but knockback and interrupt is an important thing for bombs." As do I.

Sat, 07/27/2013 - 17:47

Waffleconecake

What about users of the DR

What about users of the DR and vortex bombs? I personally don't want either of my vortex bombs or DR to cause any more knock back then they already do.

Sat, 07/27/2013 - 20:26

Zeddy

The thing with fuse time is that it would give virtually non benefit to vortexes, haze bombs and DR. On the other hand. every bomb could benefit from larger radius. (DR would get larger orbs.)

Sat, 07/27/2013 - 20:56

#10

Silverdeoxys

lolz

(DR would get larger orbs.)

now that's what I call over-powered LOL

Sat, 07/27/2013 - 23:07

#11

Diamondshreddie

@Zeddy

Greetings master Zeddy, and if I may, I shall point something out.

I see your point with those bombs not gaining much benefit from fuse time reduction, but frankly, and quite fittingly *ahem* those bombs are particularly not in need of much, if any help.

Sun, 07/28/2013 - 07:10

#12

Zeddy

That's a good point, I must admit.

Sun, 07/28/2013 - 08:39

#13

Waffleconecake

waaait a second you people

So just because a weapon is not needed to be stronger we will not allow it to be buffed? Then why can we get UVs on the rocket hammer, brandish line, florish line, alchymer line, blitz needle, ect.
The arguement of "it doesn't really need a buff" won't work well when you are talking about something that will effect the whole weapon family.
Maybe instead it could be a "Bomb effectiveness" UV that for most bombs effect the fuse time but for (maybe) shards, DR, Mist, and Vortex bombs have differing effects. The DR could get faster/bigger orbs, shard bomb gets larger/more shards, mist bomb last longer, and the vortex bombs have more suction reach and possibly a knock back reduction.

Sun, 07/28/2013 - 10:11

#14

Exerpa

Buff the undocumented

Buff the undocumented attribute.
Pain.

All weapons seem to have hand picked levels of 'pain' and again all monsters have a certain pain threshold.
Consider Iron slug vs nova driver on a gun puppy, the slug will flinch lock it but the nova will not even though it will be stronger. In fact the Slug is a pretty good anti-robot gun at the start of t2 but as you go deeper the robots will become resistant to knockdown and flinching. Applying this to bombs, I find the DCB to be too risky to be fun due low levels of pain (or high resistance) in T3. Scattering zombies about with out at least flinching them is dangerous, if it was a lot more painful then that would change how the bomb feels, hopefully for the better.

I suspect certain monsters have higher pain thresholds than they should, in particular zombies and some robots. I also suspect this might be an artifact leftover from before a zombie/retrode nerf a long time ago, they tweaked some attributes but not all.

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What bombs need.