Spiral Knights - Monster PvP (Players vs players AS Monsters)

Monster PvP (Players vs players AS Monsters)

17 respuestas [Último envío]

Sáb, 08/03/2013 - 07:16

Negazero

Okay, first off, if this has been suggested before, sorry, because I don't look into threads. Second, if this idea does well I will make a more elaborate thread explaining it. This thread is just a nutshell version.

So, my suggestion is to add players facing against other players as MONSTERS. Like slimes and zombies and such. (If anyone has played Versus mode in L4D, it's similar.) There is a lobby of knights. (Maybe like 8-10 players) The game randomly chooses a monster type and status type for the next game. (Such as shock zombie, or poison beast.) Half of them are chosen to be the monster team. Monster selections revolve around what monster type was chosen. The main goal for the knights is to survive. The monsters goal is to kill the knights. Each "wave" is about 5 minutes long, with 30 second intermission. At the start, all knights start with 0* gear. As each wave finishes, they get full 1* gear more than the last. The gear that they get are randomly chosen, or if you have some "special item", you can choose from 3 different randomly chosen gear. Monsters are T1 when knights have 0*-1*. T2 for 2*-3* gear. And T3 for 4*-5* gear. For monsters that have special attacks or more, that will be posted in the separate thread. The monsters will try to kill all of the knights with the CPU monsters. Players are randomly chosen to be what monster they will spawn or respawn as. (Stationary enemies are optional to get that out of the way) Knights are not able to revive each other. They are able to go and search for items around the map to survive. To make it fair for player monsters, they have x1.5 health and damage, and x1.25 speed for the slow monsters. Monsters are able to choose where they spawn, but restrictions include: 1. Can't spawn to close 2. Must spawn out of view. Special areas for monsters only, such as like small alcoves to sneak attack a knight trying to get an item. Elite monsters are randomly chosen in the middle of any wave. (Such as like a Trojan) Knights will have to work together to defeat it. Knights win if they survive up past 5* wave. Monsters win if they kill all knights. Winners are awarded crowns and krogmo coins.

Okay, if you have any constructive criticism for this idea, please share. More elaborate monster explanation will be in another thread. I really want to know what people think of this!

Sáb, 08/03/2013 - 07:21

Mtax

-1

Sáb, 08/03/2013 - 07:37

Waffleconecake

Oh hay, this suggestion again

Oh hay, this suggestion again -flips over a table in anger-

The reason why this would be a waste of coding time is that this isn't the type of game this would work well with, we don't have a game like L4D. The only similarity are that you CAN have 4 people working together at the same time AND there are things that should be dead walking around.
We would have to code the attacks, how they are used, new keys maybe even.
-1 Try thinking what will need to happen for what you are suggesting to get in the game before you waste everyone else time with telling you why it is bad.

Sáb, 08/03/2013 - 08:27

Klipik-Forum

-.-

@Waffle: just because something doesn’t exist doesn’t mean it can’t be created. Just because an idea is repeated doesn’t mean it’s bad. Just because something would take time to code doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be considered. Not every suggestion has to happen right now.

Sáb, 08/03/2013 - 08:28

Klipik-Forum

And now for the feedback!

First off, being lazy is no excuse for re-creating an idea that has been suggested many, many times. http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Suggestions_Forums_guide

Alright, now that that's out of the way, on to the actual idea. The "random gear" thing is weird, it would probably be better if knights could choose any gear from their arsenal at the appropriate star level. The leveling-up part is kind of strange too, especially since the knights would win after only one five star level. The same way that monsters are basically the same for stratums within a tier, this PvP mode should skip 0*, 2*, and 4* stages and have T1, T2, and T3 instead. The cap should be higher than only six levels, and there should be some kind of reward, but not too much.

As waffle mentioned, there is nothing in the game remotely close to controlling a monster. Monsters in SK are dumb and weak, their only counterbalances are strength in numbers and an outrageous number of abilities in later tiers. For example, a T3 Alpha Wolver can use its chain bite, burrow and teleport, dodge bullets, and use attack buff. A trojan can slam attack, dash, and buff its attack. Giant Lichens can tackle, shoot spikes, grow spikes from the floor, and dash. So it seemed this would prevent knights from accurately controlling them... until last tuesday.

What happened last tuesday? Battle sprites! And what do battle sprites have? Abilities! Three of them! Those keys could be used to control monster abilities in conjunction with the standard attack button, as I don't believe any monster has more than four abilities. The standard attack would be your "attack" command, and abilities like attack buff, teleport, dash, spike shot, etc would be activated from the ability keys. So that's that problem mostly solved. The only thing that remains is that monsters are incredibly slow to attack, and there's no telling what would happen when you put someone with an actual brain at the controls. (Also, please don’t make an entire separate thread just about this, just discuss it here.)

On to monster spawning. Spawns should be chosen at random from a predetermined set of spawn areas, which would only be applicable for spawning if there was not a knight nearby. That’s fairly simple, not much can go wrong there as long as there are more spawn areas than knights.

Victory conditions: Same as standard versus zombie survival mode. Monsters win if they kill all the knights, knights win if they survive until the end. But, since this is a team based game, and you’re supposed to be able to help your teammates, health sharing revives should be re-implemented for this mode only. I say this because you can’t realistically be expected to survive 10+ waves of monsters, especially not player-controlled T3 ones, without dying at least a couple times. Sure, emergency revive even once per wave is ok, but realistically you’ll probably end up dying more than that. Paying 50CE/revive in a PvP gamemode is fairly ridiculous.

Dom, 08/04/2013 - 07:51

Negazero

@Klipik

Thanks for those points. I was going to save this for the other thread, but I guess I'll trash that. I thought that the monster "abilities" (such as like zombie breath or slime spike) could be used with the block button, which acts like a secondary attack button. They could choose what abilities they wanted to use with the mouse wheel. But your idea seems to work well to. Also, like I said, when I mentioned the speed multiplier, I also meant attack speed. Don't forget the cooldowns too!

Controlling, nothing like some good coding couldn't do.

For the spawns, yeah, I agree. Good idea.

For reviving, also a good point. No manual revives, a teammate must help you. If the timer gets to 0, (like if you don't get revived in time) you "die" and are unable to be revived by a teammate. You have to spectate a teammate that is alive.

Hope this cleared up some.

Dom, 08/04/2013 - 08:16

Negazero

Also,

Choosing what gear you get could get very OP. I mean, just get your Polaris and go crazy at 5*. How bout some spam charge from that divine avenger huh? You liek my electron vortex? Also, what if someone doesn't have any 5* gear? What would they do, use their fists? By preset gear, I meant like at 1* you get a bolted blade, 2* you could get wolver coat or cobalt helm. 5* could a Aegis. It would prevent the monsters getting spam killed by weapons that would be considered "cheap."

Dom, 08/04/2013 - 08:04

Juances

SK would be a very hard game if monsters were smart.

Gremlins and trojans could be simply unkillable if they corner up appropiately so you can't damage them.

Dom, 08/04/2013 - 08:40

Negazero

@Juances

If anyone was a Trojan, they would be made to turn slowly, therefore making it if someone was being cornered by a player Trojan, another knight could come and smash its back. The Trojan would have a decision to make. Either continue hitting the cornered knight, or hit the other. Or if another monster saw a friendly Trojan in a situation, it could go and take out a knight. It's about using your team to your advantage. If you stay bunched up, a Trojan could easily smash them all. Staying in small groups around the map could be a better tactic. And Trojans would only spawn in at about 3* and up waves, and it would depend on what monster type the stage became. Everything about the monsters depends on the stage. So a Trojan won't spawn in on a slime stage. If it made people happy, Trojans would be like Arkus. Simply have it to where they have no front invincibility, but where damage is very small. And gremlins could be pushed away with the sheild for breathing room. Gremlins are kind of wimpy with the right tactics.

Dom, 08/04/2013 - 09:44

Frudious

This has been suggested many times

Which doesn't make it bad. With what was said in the first post and what Klipik said, this sounds pretty fun.

@Waffle
"We would have to code the attacks"

That is the worse reason for disliking a suggestion I have ever heard. Seriously.

Mar, 08/06/2013 - 11:44

#10

Negazero

Like pros...

Le bump. =3

Mar, 08/06/2013 - 14:41

#11

Tgfbn

i like this idea

Mié, 08/07/2013 - 01:28

#12

Terrty

@juances

It is indeed impossible for a a trojan being controlled by the smartest person in the world [or me not to brag :D] to apropriately corner up without being able to get attacked by anyone unless it was on one side all indestructible blocks and other side empty space where no one at any angle could touch them without hacking. And as for gremlins the blitz [mabye plauge too] shots will go through darkfang sheilds [the one gremlins use]

Vie, 08/09/2013 - 19:51

#13

Martial

Monster Play

This is exactly like Monster Play in LoTRO.

Sáb, 08/24/2013 - 07:54

#14

Negazero

Bump

Sáb, 08/24/2013 - 09:08

#15

Waffleconecake

I swear to Nick....

What I think is still the same regarding this suggestion but here is some words from the agitated.

1. Stop saying in the start of every Nick damn thread you make, "please forgive me for reposting old ideas with nothing new to the concept of it" and just +1 necro the best one you find if it isn't a new idea or take on the idea of the thread.
Example good: I think dual wielding could work as a cosmetic effect like for the magnus and cutter.
This is an example of a good "repost thread" as its bringing a new twist to the basic consept of "dual wielding".

Example bad: I think I should be able to dual wield at the cost of my shield.
This is an example of a bad "repost thread" as it is just like all the others.

2. If you are going to "bumpdate" as I call it, at least list the changes made to the OP in the bumpdate post so you don't look like a lier trying to get away with bumping.

Sáb, 08/24/2013 - 10:14

#16

Axetime

OMG

worst idea TOO LONG COMENTS IS SO HARD 2 READ

Sáb, 08/24/2013 - 10:24

#17

Thunder-The-Bright

my dear troll axe, we know what you are talkin about. please sit down and take your injection. ty.

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Monster PvP (Players vs players AS Monsters)