I mean come on.
Elite mode Vanaduke should be immune to shivermist
Dom, 08/11/2013 - 11:42
Dom, 08/11/2013 - 12:40
#2
It should get bigger orbs to physically prevent it's use. Not a big change, it's already on the edge.
Dom, 08/11/2013 - 12:43
#3
Have some resist on phase 5. GREY NUMBERS EVERYWHERE. Well, except for the people who uses normal weapons.
Dom, 08/11/2013 - 12:44
#4
-1
No ? Vana isn't a ice enemy, so he shouldn't be immune to ice. I think we got the idea of a "ice vana" somewhere in an other topic that suggested boss levels with different themes, such as poison, ice, fire....
Dom, 08/11/2013 - 12:48
#5
+1 or larger orbs.
congrats blitz you noticed that vana is not an ice type mob. He is a fire type. What melts ice again? fire. What does he have circulating him for roughly half the fight? Balls of fire.
Dom, 08/11/2013 - 13:01
#6
How about when you shivermist Vana, he only freezes for 1 or 2 seconds. xP
Dom, 08/11/2013 - 13:06
#7
Because shivermist reaplies the status every 2 seconds?
Dom, 08/11/2013 - 13:20
#8
How about adding that and
How about adding that and making shiv a useless weapon ? great addon
Dom, 08/11/2013 - 13:23
#9
Pistol is best weapon in TF2
@Blitz: Useless? You kiddin'? Shivermist makes Devilites into sitting ducks. You can just walk up to them and poke them.
Dom, 08/11/2013 - 13:25
#10
...what
that's like saying that being able to turn machines with the omniwrench in FTB is op. i mean come on.
the more negative ideas you express, the more likely OOO will make this game worse and worse and worse and worse and it just goes on.
especially since orbs and sparks got nerfed.
Dom, 08/11/2013 - 13:28
#11
@Doctorspacebar
Do you know anything about bombing ? removing this would make the blitz needle less useful too
Dom, 08/11/2013 - 13:34
#12
Whether Vanaduke having freeze resist makes sense or not, you really can't argue that Shivermist pretty much breaks him.
Sense < enjoyable gameplay.
Dom, 08/11/2013 - 13:48
#13
So, it breaks him because he
So, it breaks him because he can't move ? That's the ice effect. Don't try to fix something that isn't broken.
Dom, 08/11/2013 - 14:15
#14
It breaks him because it
It breaks him because it turns the most accessible endgame boss into something that is easier than jk and snarby. That's broken.
Dom, 08/11/2013 - 14:43
#15
.
But the heck load of HP gives him some time to take down, and during that time he can annoy you with slags and that fire stream attack. Not too easy if you ask me.
Dom, 08/11/2013 - 14:59
#16
No. Just no.
Vana lobbies are already like ''Got a strike? No? Ok, have you got a shiv? hmm...'' Then you get kicked! Unless the party leader and members are generous enough to let you stay as you can still have the watering job.
But if this is implemented, all you'll hear in elite vana is ''Blitz or GTFO!''...!
@Waffleconecake - congrats blitz you noticed that vana is not an ice type mob. He is a fire type. What melts ice again? fire. What does he have circulating him for roughly half the fight? Balls of fire.
Hmm... Let me check... What does ice turn into when it melts...? Oh yeah, water! What puts out fire...? Oh yeah, water! What do use to douse the fire orbs and the shadow fire...? Oh yeah, now I remember! It's water!
Dom, 08/11/2013 - 15:08
#17
Fallen, Shivermist is to facilitate using a Blitz Needle, since it completely removes any risk in using one. Reducing the effectiveness of Shivermist will make it more difficult for people to use a Blitz effectively, so you'd probably just find people that don't care what gun you're using as long as you're able to deal decent damage.
We might even see an influx of Callahan users, which I'd love to see. That gun needs some more recognition.
@ "freeze is doing what it's supposed to, vana doesn't need any changes"
This kind of mentality is exactly what I hate. Think.
Dom, 08/11/2013 - 15:17
#18
+1yo
@Fallen-Night I've hosted many pugs for FSC and only a small percent of the parties ask if anyone has shiver.
I always tell them, ""
Plus... Shivermist cancels out Electron Vortex.. It really annoys me when someone spams that crippling bomb when I'm trying to herd the zombies with EV..
Dom, 08/11/2013 - 16:40
#19
Who needs a shiver
Who needs a shiver anymore.
Just bringing any sort of gun makes you useful enough to not be useless.
Dom, 08/11/2013 - 17:04
#20
You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!
He he he...
You do realize that...
DARK FIRE VANADUKE HAS MAX FREEZE RESISTANCE AND NONE OF YOU GUYS EVER BOTHERED TO WHINE ABOUT THAT?
You're saying it wouldn't be harder, HMM? I haven't tried the fight, but the devs obviously wouldn't have given him the resistance if it didn't help make the fight harder.
+1
Dom, 08/11/2013 - 18:42
#21
@Fallen-Night
water evaporates, the heat of the place alone should be enough to get rid of most water but doesn't for game play. If van was near an ice block it would just melt and evaporate. If the ice is on vana him self then how would it affect his orbs?
Dom, 08/11/2013 - 19:57
#22
Pistol is best weapon in TF2
Hmm... perhaps using a Freeze-related weapon could damage the Fire Orbs, destroying them somewhat slower than water, but still destroying them? THAT would be nice; people would love Shivermist without it breaking Vana.
@Blitz: I happen to be a full time bomber. Yes, I know it would be worse on Vanaduke. Vanaduke is not the only monster in the game.
Shiver would continue to be useful, especially against all of the following due to putting out Fire or preventing movement/turning:
-Oilers (and Toxoils)
-Trojans
-Deadnaughts
-Devilites
-Kats
-With a little bit of circle-strafing, Turrets
-ANYTHING (except freeze-immune monsters), when your party is using certain weapons well (Catalyzer comes to mind)
Dom, 08/11/2013 - 23:46
#23
my 2 cents
EFSC is just meant to be the same but harder. I vouch for better AI but not something that would make the Shiv useless.
If we are at it. Make the DA stop after 1 hit at RT, no DR/EV/Graviton at JK and Snarby is unshield-bumpable, no EV/Graviton too.
If we apply for 1 then let's do them all shall we? ^ ^
Lun, 08/12/2013 - 00:46
#24
"No ? Vana isn't a ice enemy, so he shouldn't be immune to ice."
He won't be immune to freeze, only minor freeze, just like Darkfire Vanaduke already is.
Furthermore, the man is gigantic and constantly on fire in a room that's very, very hot. It makes very little sense for anything to stay frozen there in the first place.
Thirdly of all, I'm only asking of this for Elite mode. People who looking for an easymode Vana fight are free to turn the difficulty dial down.
@Shamanala
I don't entirely disagree. Instead of shiver immunity, Vana could have some moves ready for when he's frozen, like starting to smash the floor randomly and wildly, spawning fire tiles and such.
Lun, 08/12/2013 - 07:53
#25
The problem is that the
The problem is that the current elite is just for loot
Lun, 08/12/2013 - 08:06
#26
Elite is intended to make the
Elite is intended to make the game more challenging you dunce and rewards you with more loot for beatting it.
Lun, 08/12/2013 - 15:48
#27
+1
That is all...
Mar, 08/13/2013 - 04:21
#28
I'm sorry but... -1
So, first off, why are people argueing about the logic in Vana melting ice with his Fire-ball-things. Or that the room is hot enough to thaw him out quicker. Does that mean we should make Slags immune to it too? I mean, they're ON FIRE. and they sometimes BREATHE FIRE BREATH even when frozen. No. Just no. They Freeze, Vana freezes. They all Freeze. Freeze freeze freeze.
I tried doing Vana with a party of 4 on Elite, we were all seasoned players. One of us brought a Shiv (as well as Blitz) and the rest of us brought our Blitzes along as well. What happened? Only one of us didn't die, two of us had to use an SoL and the last had to use an emergency rev. We killed the Slags, we did everything as normal. BUT WE STILL DIED (with the esception of the guy who was sitting back, Watering, and killing the slags). How? We froze Vana, so CLEARLY he was weakened, right?
The thing is, Vana (as well as the slags) gain a lot of power with the Elite Difficulty. And when someone tries to go around Vana to avoid Shadow Fire from the front and Vana decides he's going to switch his aggro to that person, shielding won't help that much. Especially because the person who's trying to get behind Vana has usually charged their Blitz, leaving them vulnerable. It still takes time to kill Vana, even if he's stuck in Ice, and there'll almost always be deaths caused by the pesky Shadow-fire-which-spawns-on-your-face.
On a side note, the Almirian Royal Guards that spawn in the third phase are specifically designed to target and kill Shiv users. They can't be frozen unless their back is pointing to the center of the Shiv's blast, and most people who use the Shiv like to stay in one spot, as to not get hit accidentally by a flame orb. Taking these guards out is hard due to their high health unless you have someone on them, but even then they're a nuisance for the first bit. And don't say anything like "But after you kill them the threats's gone" because that's just obvious, some people don't kill slags, others do. It's tactics.
I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with this. Vana gains a health and damage buff from Elite already, we're rewarded with more Loot. But the difference from Vana's room in terms of Loot isn't even that much. We don't get any more Tokens than regular, we get a higher percentage of rare drops but... It's still not extremely high. To some, Vana in Elite is still not worth it, even though the Elevator's free now. Giving Elite Vana a buff will just reinforce that idea.
I want to go through an Elite FSC killing hard to beat Slags and Trojans and NOT be left alone at the very end to fight a boss that can't be held in place and Blitzed safely.
Mar, 08/13/2013 - 05:22
#29
usually there is no shadow fire when you freeze vana becuase you stay out of his sight so he doesn't swing. and if he doesn't swing he doesn't damage.
royal guards take only 2 steps to kill: make em charge into shiver, then blitz.
elite difficulty only buffs damage and hit points of monsters, but vana remains harmless if you stay behind him while frozen.
one last thing: using blitz should not be safe. it roots you in place, and in exchange you do lots of damage. that's the trade.
Mar, 08/13/2013 - 05:36
#30
Well tbh it's easier with four Blitzes than with three Blitzes and a Shiver.
@Ember
Go play a non-action MMO if you want your fun served on a silver spoon.
Mar, 08/13/2013 - 12:12
#31
+1 to elite monsters being I
+1 to elite monsters being I dunno, more elite?
Mié, 08/14/2013 - 02:05
#32
@Ember-Break
Being able to not find elite mode worth it is the exact reason why difficulty selection exists in the first place. I wouldn't be asking for this shiver thing if the update simply said "increased the health of every monster by 50% and increased loot by 15%" instead of "added difficulty selections which changes monster health, damage and loot". Playing Elite is a choice, and it should be a choice you make because you want extra challenge, not extra loot. The extra loot is just to prevent Elite from being less effective than just spamming runs on normal.
It sounds like you haven't quite got the hang of the shiver/blitz tactic, here's some tips:
- Have the shiverer get used to staying directly east of Vanaduke. If he stays there, he'll be able to instantly freeze the right slag guard when it spawns.
- Have every blitzer informed that they should never fire upon Vanaduke unless they're directly behind him. If they can all stay together, Vanaduke should never attack, and therefore never spawn shadow tiles.
- One or the blitzers should take care of regular slags before finishing off Vanaduke. If they wait until at least one blitz charge has been unleashed by someone else at Vana, the slag-cleaner will never be attacked by Vanaduke.
- At the start of the final wave, have two blitzers stand west of Vanaduke, ready to instantly kill the slag guard spawning west. The east slag guard will be frozen by the shiverer and and the two slag cleaners are free to take their time setting up a charge on that one, too. If the last blitzer shot Vana in the back at the start of the wave, the slag cleaners will, still, have no aggro and need not fear being attacked.
Yes, it requires a bit of setup, tactics and coordination but the fight entirely ceases to be a challenge once you figure it out. You might as well replace Vana with a static block puzzle. I think Elite mode should demand more than that.
SHUSH DON'T GIVE THEM IDEAS ;_;
...I like my shiv ._.
I don't want it to have less purpose.
Like the AP.