Spiral Knights - Adding status effects to normal type guns with specialised counterparts

Adding status effects to normal type guns with specialised counterparts

10 respuestas [Último envío]

Lun, 08/19/2013 - 00:52

Etharaes

If you're wondering what I mean, it's guns which start out as a single damage type, and then branch off into two different branches, one normal typed, the other specialised (pierce, shadow or elemental). If you're still lost, I mean the catalyser, pulsar and magnus lines.

If you choose the specialised option, you get specialised damage and a status effect. If you choose the normal line, you trade get normal damage and nothing else.

This has always seemed a bit out of place to me, especially concerning the magnus line.

I propose:
- Supernova gets a chance of inflicting fire.
- Neutraliser gets a chance of inflicting freeze.
- Iron slug gets a chance of inflicting stun.

The severity of the statuses and the chance of infliction would be identical to the specialised counterparts.

This will probably not be game-breaking, so can we have this? Please?

~Ethanol

Lun, 08/19/2013 - 01:09

Father-Frost

And normal damage shard bombs

And normal damage shard bombs get chance of fire?

Lun, 08/19/2013 - 01:45

Etharaes

Well, ok but

I had a different idea for the shard bombs, which was make it so that there is a shard bomb for each corresponding family, each with one of the six status effects (I am not counting sleep).

Shall I elaborate?

~Ethanol

Lun, 08/19/2013 - 02:04

Hexzyle

-1

I take normal damage weapons so they're useful in any situation. I'd rather not re-ignite/refreeze/shock Oilers/Ice Cubes/Quicksilvers, make Wolvers teleport everywhere or cause Gremlin Demos to crap bombs at triple speed with weapons that are intended to be good all-round, thankyou.
If I want indiscriminate status infliction, I'll take a haze bomb.

Lun, 08/19/2013 - 02:05

Father-Frost

RE: Etharaes

Please do elaborate.

IMO we do have shards for each family (missing undead) seeing as for fighting gremlins, wolvers and constructs I prefer more damage to a status. Adding fire to the normal damage shard would let it be general use rather than just being weaker than any blast bomb unless all three shards connect. (not that reliable DSP)

Lun, 08/19/2013 - 02:09

Father-Frost

RE: Hexzyle

The thing is there are quite a few weapons that are general use by your definition. And none of these were mechanically general use with the possible exception of Iron slug but the addition of stun does not hinder it's use in any situation.

Lun, 08/19/2013 - 03:01

Hexzyle

@Father-Frost

Iron Slug is currently awaiting a mechanical overhaul. I'd rather leave Callahan with the stun: there are already too many duplicate weapons.
Giving Neutralizer freeze would conflict with the Stick & Kick strategy. Although it would make it more effective as a versatile weapon, it takes the skill out of comboing it with weapons like Vortex, Voltaic Tempest and Shivermist to clump enemies together

Lun, 08/19/2013 - 11:14

Project-Vl

Thats imposible

We shouldnt make weps that first have normal then go into shadow peircing or elemental. Its silly. Spiral knights made different weps and damages for a reason. Although it would be cool if weps could have variants that inflict status damge.

Lun, 08/19/2013 - 12:04

Exerpa

As far as I understand it,

As far as I understand it, pure non-normal damage weapons tend to receive a buff to make up for huge damage nerf on resistant enemies. For guns this seems to be acquiring status, except for the needles (longer range, no knockback on charge, damage buff for giving up status). For swords, this seems to be speed and handling (Flourish and the Hammer are turbo-calibur and turbo-troika). For bombs, this means extremely reduced knockback on Dark Briar Barrage - however I don't think the status-less shard bombs have been buffed against the normal damage counterpart.

If you were only going to own 1 or 2 weapons, then the normal/buffed-special tradeoff might be reasonable.

Lun, 08/19/2013 - 21:08

Etharaes

Here comes Hexyle to -1 my thread again...

Can you please explain how fire or stun or freeze makes wolvers and gremlin demos go crazy? They fixed the double attack stun thing so I'm at a loss. Also, is a disadvantage vs a single enemy mean that it's not a good all-rounder weapon? The users of normal weapons generally don't think Volcanic Pepperbox as bad as an all-round weapon because the fire it can inflict may light oilers.

As for the 'indiscriminate status infliction', what about all the other weapons that aren't hazes that have status? Storm driver is considered on par with Prisma by most, or even better, due to the shock which it can inflict, while Hail driver is considered a totally different playstyle of gun due to it's freeze chance. Polaris is said to be good for killing turrets not only for it's damage type but it's shock infliction, and electron vortex is widely considered categorically better than graviton vortex due to shock. The status inflicting shards bombs are considered the lesser of two evils between the dark matter and shocking salt, and deadly splinter vs sun shards.

Anyways, my rough idea for the shard bombs is that since we some shards with a specific damage bonus and a status, why not go all the way? Why not have one shard for every family? The damage bonus would be very high and the status would be fair chance of inflicting a moderate status. My idea was:

- Piercing with bonus vs fiends and stun (keep sun shards basically)
- Piercing with bonus vs beasts and curse (Like cursed ruins in the wilderness or something? Plus least game breaking)
- Shadow with bonus vs slimes and shock (keep salt bomb)
- Shadow with bonus vs gremlins and freeze (darkness = void = cold?)
- Elemental with bonus vs undead and fire (FSC much?)
- Elemental with bonus vs constucts and poison (No real theme)
- We would keep the normal shard bomb as is and increase it's damage by 10% or something

The new shards would all have the damage of the current pure damage shards, because shards have so little damage and they need a bit of a buff.

I understand that the statuses may not fit with the family bonus or the damage type, but shocking salt bomb doesn't exactly work so why not carry on the tradition?

~Ethanol

Mar, 08/20/2013 - 02:31

#10

Hexzyle

@Etharaes

Can you please explain how fire or stun or freeze makes wolvers and gremlin demos go crazy

When wolvers are afflicted by a status such as fire or shock they dodge far more frequently due to damage ticks. I've also seen Gremlin demos perform similarly with their bomb carpeting.

Volcanic Pepperbox as bad as an all-round weapon because the fire it can inflict may light oilers.

Volcanic Pepperbox is bad as an all-round weapon because it's clumsy to use in combat. (that being said, it fulfils a far more versatile role than the Blitz/Plague) The autogun line are better utilized against large or stationary targets, or slow advancing targets that are vulnerable to knockback. The ability to re-ignite Oilers has no effect on the weapon's utility because a single charge will often wipe out an Oiler even if it ignites itself during it.

As for the 'indiscriminate status infliction', what about all the other weapons that aren't hazes that have status?

I'm not saying no weapon should have statuses, I'm saying not every weapon should have statuses. The Drivers are the gunner's equivalent of a Haze bomb, and same goes for the Brandishes for swordsmen. The latter two get higher damage yet with less selection, AoE and chance of infliction to balance it out.

Polaris is said to be good for killing turrets not only for it's damage type but it's shock infliction

Polaris's shock has next to no influence on how well it can kill turrets. The shock's interrupt is easily mimicked with far better reliability by a Polaris/Supernova user who fires two bullets at a time to keep a turret interrupted.

and electron vortex is widely considered categorically better than graviton vortex due to shock

But you wouldn't be saying the same thing it if were poison or fire, would you? Certain statuses have their place, and that one just happens to be perfect for what that bomb is used for. If you were actually dead set on inflicting that status, you'd take a Voltedge, Storm Driver or Voltaic Tempest. You'd keep a lot more enemies shocked doing it that way.

I find no issues with your shard expansion idea.

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Adding status effects to normal type guns with specialised counterparts