Spiral Knights - Why doesn't OOO ever respond to Suggestions threads?

Why doesn't OOO ever respond to Suggestions threads?

27 respuestas [Último envío]

Sáb, 09/07/2013 - 20:31

Draycos

Seriously, it's driving me insane.

"We look at the threads"? Right, why can't you tell us what's on your minds? Why can't you promote discussion instead of looking at what people post, discussing it internally, and then deciding from there?

Just look at Warframe's devs; they offer an amazing amount of feedback and they actually respond to their community. What's stopping you from doing the same, learning what the players are thinking and then responding to them and giving your reasoning for doing things and what you're working on and how you intend to do it while being willing to change your plans?

Dare I bring up the old Sun Shards and how much feedback (or the lack thereof) that got, even with how much attention the players themselves gave it?

Sáb, 09/07/2013 - 20:39

Ustrinaferalthorn

Well...

They do, but just not as much as we'd like. I think part of it has to do with the age of their general audience. They don't expect many 10-y-o's to come up with an idea that could change the game. Of course, the forums are mostly occupied by teenagers & young adults. There are quite a few silly threads here that wind up burying the good ones, but if everyone would just leave the bad threads alone and only comment on the good ones, we may see the devs get more involved in the suggestions thread. I really would like them to... There are so many ideas that I'd love to see implemented, and even if they wont do it, I'd like to know why.

+1 Would like to see more involvement from the devs.

Sáb, 09/07/2013 - 20:40

Khamsin

It is just their way. People

It is just their way. People might be hurt if they believe 000 "plays favorites".

Sáb, 09/07/2013 - 20:44

Draycos

Forget people who think they shouldn't because they might play favorites. Some feedback, ANY feedback, is better than "oh we're working on it" and "we've thought about this before" and other shallow comments that neither contribute to anything or spark any other discussion.

Sáb, 09/07/2013 - 20:48

Ustrinaferalthorn

@Khamsin

What do you mean play favorites? How is getting more involved with potential clientele playing favorites?

Sáb, 09/07/2013 - 20:51

Draycos

I think that means something among the lines of people getting mad because their thread has no dev posts but someone else's does.

Which I personally think is ridiculous.

Sáb, 09/07/2013 - 20:53

Khamsin

"Oh, the developers posted to

"Oh, the developers posted to THAT guy's thread! My idea was just as good! Oh, and he's commented on another thread of his earlier too! Those developers don't care about anyone except for their inner circle of buddies!"

That sort of thing. Not that I agree that is a legitimate reason to stay away, but it is possibly a reason. Anyways, my feeling is that if a thread gets a high enough post count, it'll draw developer attention even if they don't directly comment.

Sáb, 09/07/2013 - 21:03

Draycos

I really hope they don't sift through suggestions by post count. A lot of good suggestions don't get any posts on them because the only reason for anyone to say something is "+1 I agree because X and Y". A high-post-count suggestion is either controversial or utterly massive, sometimes both.

Everyone loves to pick apart a "pls give me this" thread, while nobody wants to post in the totally-perfectly-100%-true-add-this suggestions, because there's nothing to add and nothing to argue.

Sáb, 09/07/2013 - 21:02

Ustrinaferalthorn

Okay,

So at the very least, we're all on the same page.
@Draycos that's true, I hadn't thought about that... I actually am a bit disappointed in the petition thread I created earlier. I thought that would have taken off pretty quickly since so many people have asked for it... I don't know, maybe it wasn't as good of an idea as I thought.
Anyways, I don't know if OOO has the patience to sit down and muddle through all the posts to find the good ones, though I wish they did. I've seen so many good ideas in here that I'd love to see in-game!

Sáb, 09/07/2013 - 21:08

Draycos

I wish they do find the patience because there's a lot of stuff they can do with Sprites to add a lot of depth to the game, and a lot of gear-balancing advice, etc. Discussing it with the players and saying "what if we did this, how would you feel about that" would be massively useful.

Sáb, 09/07/2013 - 21:11

#10

Ustrinaferalthorn

@Draycos

I hope so too. I'd also like to see some new gear and enemies added to the game as well!

Dom, 09/08/2013 - 04:56

#11

The-Mighty-Potato

I believe that they only post if they think an idea is REALLY good and possible, like the Changing your Knights Eyes was a suggestion which was then later implemented into the game.

Dom, 09/08/2013 - 05:22

#12

Hexzyle

@The-Mighty-Potato

And that's why they don't comment on threads, is because people develop an attitude like yours towards their comments.

Another reason is that developer input tends to shape and restrict the parameters of the idea instead of contributing. The community stops coming up with new ideas, and instead just tries to make the suggestion fit exactly what the commenting developer brought up. Developer input often destroys brainstorming, not promotes it.

Dom, 09/08/2013 - 07:19

#13

Draycos

Only posting if an idea is 100% perfect is pretty lame, honestly.

"Another reason is that developer input tends to shape and restrict the parameters of the idea instead of contributing. The community stops coming up with new ideas, and instead just tries to make the suggestion fit exactly what the commenting developer brought up. Developer input often destroys brainstorming, not promotes it."

I'd say that's only when the input is a statement rather than discussing the topic thoroughly with the players. Answers with reasoning backing them are constructive, though.

"I'd like to see this in the game!"
"Nah we're not doing that/we're working on it."
"Alright guys, we can't ever post about this again because they said they're not gonna do it."

"I'd like to see this in the game!"
"We can't do this, because X and Y/we're figuring out how best to do this and would like your input on what we have so far."
"Another way to do this while still following X and Y would be blablablabla. / Well, I think this and that."
"Yadayadableebloop."

Just a couple examples of how I feel better answers offer more info + discussion over another.

Dom, 09/08/2013 - 12:57

#14

The-Mighty-Potato

@Hexzyle

Develop an attitude....pardon?

I like to help people out with gear recommendations and in suggestions, I usually post to try and improve the idea, but if it's just plain stupid I.E Shotgun petition I just think that people need to be more realistic.

Dom, 09/08/2013 - 13:18

#15

Draycos

Here's a response I got from Hyperion:

"Generally, we find that player discussions are more productive and can lead to

more interesting things if we don't; otherwise, players tend to think "yes!

They like this! It's going in!" (and get disappointed when it's not in the

release) or "Aw, they hate this and nothing good will ever come of it." Either

way, discussion tends to stop, which isn't good. Sometimes you guys come up

with really interesting things that aren't necessarily the same as original

posts, and if we'd interfered the discussion would never have gotten to that

point."

So how about the posts that aren't in the "generally" section, or how about telling players what you have in mind for gear balance and the like so they can discuss that?

Dom, 09/08/2013 - 17:27

#16

Autofire

You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

I would prefer more feedback, but not on the suggestions forums. Something like a monthly "Ask the Devs."

Mechwarrior Online does it weekly, but they have a team of 40+, soo...

Dom, 09/08/2013 - 20:33

#17

Imtn

Not sure if perfectly applicable here, but

In one of the previous games I used to play, the admins would appear in the game after every update to answer questions. This would allow the players to ask questions about the current update as well as what direction the game would be going in.
Usually, though, the admins would only be available in that place/level for one day only: the day following the update.

Dom, 09/08/2013 - 23:33

#18

Hexzyle

@The-Mighty-Potato
I believe that they only post if they think an idea is REALLY good and possible
There are no criteria to fulfil to cause a developer to post on a particular thread. Sometimes they just feel like saying 'hey'. Sometimes they're thinking about a particular idea and a thread happens to cover that exact idea that they were thinking about. Sometimes a thread goes over something that was discussed in a previous development meeting and the developer wants to give a bit of trivia on it.
Just because a developer posts on a thread, doesn't mean it's GOING to be added into the game (very rarely this is the case: 99% of the time when a suggestion is added into the game, there is no developer comments on the responsible thread)

@Draycos
"We can't do this, because X and Y/we're figuring out how best to do this and would like your input on what we have so far."

This is what the testing server and associated forum is for. Anyway, say they do find a suggestion on the forums they like. If it has issues, they discuss it among themselves, and come up with a refined idea from it: they don't need to comment on the thread because the suggestion has served its purpose: sparking an idea. Of course, if a person puts more legitimate and possible detail on their thread, it is more likely that their suggestion is added into the game the way they wanted it. But don't be so naive to think that developers are unable to think up solutions to problems and crutch on the community entirely to do all their thinking for them.
Anyway, if developers started actively commenting on threads, on the threads that develpers don't comment on, people would get frustrated and discouraged.

Lun, 09/09/2013 - 03:02

#19

Blaackblue

Devs in cognito

An alternative idea would be to have developers or admins make accounts with no discerning qualities to it (it would look just like any other account) and post with that without saying that they are devs. this way, they can provide feedback on posts without hampering community free will like Hexzyle suggested. This wouldn't really solve the problem of the community feeling that devs dont care about them, but we would be able to see more community ideas refined and implemented in game, or at least given a clear reason why it wont come in-game above the usual "this idea is stupid, i dont even need to give a reason why that is"

Lun, 09/09/2013 - 07:18

#20

The-Mighty-Potato

@Hexzyle

"There are no criteria to fulfil to cause a developer to post on a particular thread."

I know.....I never mentioned anything about any criteria.

P.S I don't need some random person saying that I develop an attitude. I think that's a pretty pathetic thing to do on the internet.

Lun, 09/09/2013 - 08:52

#21

Draycos

I know they don't need players to do all the thinking for them, I'm saying I wish they'd ask anyways before changing something. In other words, concerning weapon balance/Sprite balance/enemy changes.

Big examples being buffing Brandishes when they were already strong, totally redesigning the Shards (they announced it but weren't open to suggestions, even when people said not to change them, IIRC), removing tracking from many monsters (which was admittedly a pretty broken mechanic with how easily enemies turned, but having none at all is worse [wolvers]), lowering the Dark Retribution rotate slower instead of just dealing less damage (making it really frustrating to use on gremlins), and most recently, Drakon getting nerfed on the testing server before he went live (about a month or so ago).

Some of those were even tested on the testing server and still went through even when people said "don't do this it's a bad change", which is sad.

I also don't think that we should only be able to give feedback after something has been worked into the game already, hence this thread despite the testing server existing.

Lun, 09/09/2013 - 10:56

#22

Oboron

Hmm....

I find this strange too. I mean the suggestion threads that get recognised by devs seems to me to be those with hundreds and hundreds comments. I've seen many threads that suggests useful things, whether big or small but they don't get commented on. I think they look at threads but just don't comment on most of them unless they feel the need to or want to. That would explain the reason why some small threads get commented on.

Lun, 09/09/2013 - 12:36

#23

Hexzyle

@The-Mighty-Potato

I don't need some random person saying that I develop an attitude

Dunno why you're getting cranky, "develop an attitude" is not synonymous with "get upset". To develop an attitude means to form an opinion or an automated response to a certain criteria, so whenever said situation comes up, the person always reacts in their predefined way, instead of considering the whole picture first.

I never mentioned anything about any criteria.

they only post if they think an idea is REALLY good and possible
The word "IF" is always followed by a criteria, a condition, a circumstance, a cause, a situation.

Lun, 09/09/2013 - 13:11

#24

Dekuinanutshell

+1 @ autofire

I agree with autofire on this one. And +1 to the thread in general, having feedback from devs would be awesome and does show that they're actually paying attention.

Mar, 09/10/2013 - 08:42

#25

The-Mighty-Potato

@Hexzyle

I'm not getting cranky, but who wants someone over the internet to say that they are this and that?

Mar, 09/10/2013 - 09:43

#26

Hexzyle

Hmm. Perhaps I have overstepped my ruling on how I compose my arguments. I guess I targeted you without provocation.

Mar, 09/10/2013 - 11:25

#27

Deleted-Knight

This thread is like an oxymoron

You're posting a suggestion that OOO respond to suggestions. Well, chances are they won't be responding...

Buscar

Why doesn't OOO ever respond to Suggestions threads?