For several junk collector reasons, I'd like to know which one has better overall damage output against Fiends, counting the fire. I'm not sure which one is better while battling them as the Fiends are weak to piercing, but FOVs fire is stronger and the chance to set something aflame is higher with it. On the other hand, the FFlamberge has piercing damage, and as you should know fiends are weak against it, but smaller chances for a smaller fire.
Damage output v. Fiends - Furious Flamberge VS. Fang of Vog
Thu, 09/12/2013 - 05:49
Thu, 09/12/2013 - 06:09
#2
Derpuraptor Strikes Back
I have both FinF ad BTB, each with a different UV. I just feel like fire might be fun to use this way. I don't like throwing vials or Mist Bombs to be honest.
Thu, 09/12/2013 - 06:54
#3
First of all, you should know that every specimen of the fiend family have a +5 resistance against fire, so using fire to fight them in the first place is not the best of ideas. It'll work, it'll kill them; it just won't be the fastest way to do it.
In fact, no enemy weak to piercing is simultaneously weak to fire (wolvers have 0 resistance, which is honestly kind of blargh as far as killing things with fire goes). Gremlins, neutral to piercing, are also highly resistant to fire (+5), and only one undead is particularly weak to it, (Zombies have -5) while the others are either neutral (Howlitzers) or highly resistant (Kats).
I'm not sure sure whose bright idea Flamberge was in the first place. Is it supposed to be a general-purpose sword?
Thu, 09/12/2013 - 08:14
#4
Derpuraptor Strikes Back
@Zeddy Hmm, okay. Thanks for the info. Guess I'll try to get a FOV (first???) then.
Thu, 09/12/2013 - 09:25
#5
"Great fencers can carve their name into their opponents. Legendary ones brand it there." - Description of the Furious Flamberge
That's honestly one of the only reasons I made one. If you're working vs fiends, I'd still say the Flourish-type attack pattern is way better than the FoV. It may not seem like it, but a FoV is significantly slower than most 3-swing swords, like the Caliburs or the Brandishes. The wide swing of the Flamberge is just easier to hit with.
The Final Flourish though will almost always be the better source of damage.
Thu, 09/12/2013 - 09:46
#6
Fang of Vog first
Inferno-Forum, Fang of Vog is one of the best "inessential" swords. Its charge attack is really powerful. Exploiting it requires you to equip fire armor and keep an eye on your health and remedies. So it influences your tactics strongly. And there is no other sword like it, unless you "incorrectly" got Levi or CIV first. So it's strong, interesting, and fun.
In contrast, Furious Flamberge is identical to Final Flourish, which you already have, except for fire and decreased raw damage. It's not going to be surprising or especially fun. And it's certainly not especially effective. The chance of fire is not impressive. If I recall correctly, Furious Flamberge was my 16th 5-star sword. That's roughly the priority you should attach to it.
Thu, 09/12/2013 - 11:14
#7
Flamberge vs Flourish vs fiends. Let's map it out, shall we?
I did this thought experiment in a different thread with alchemers. We're going to swing our sword 100 times, only using the first hit. This is depth 25. We've maxed our damage bonus, and with the Flamberge, every time an enemy catches fire, we change target to optimize our spread of damage.
With Flourish, we inflict a total of 100 x 415 damage = 41,500.
With Flamberge, we inflict a total of 100 x 360 damage = 36,000. Then we add the fire. Fiends have +5 resistance to fire, Flamberge inflicts +2 fire, making for a total of -3 fire strength. At this strength, we get 3 ticks of 53 damage. Flamberge has maybe a 15% chance of infliction.
15 x 3 x 53 = 2385. A total of 38385 damage under the most optimal conditions against fiends.
I just don't see a reason for this weapon to exist. With Magma Driver and Pepperbox you can set fire to lumbers, jellies and zombies for great amounts of payoff, but Flamberge just suffers from an identity crisis. It's a special-damage weapon with a status that's incompatible with its specialized targets.
However, it might have special application in Lockdown against Chaos Clones...
Final Flourish vs Chaos with no piercing UVs: 100 x 385 = 38,500
Furious Flamberge 100 x 330 = 33,500
+ 15 x 5 x 95 = 7125
= 40625
Still kind of rubbish, honestly. The damage advantage is far too small to justify it being so delayed and so rare. Keep in mind this is against an opponent with a massive weakness to fire.
Edit: I just realized that by using max damage bonus, I was minimizing the difference fire makes. My bad.
Thu, 09/12/2013 - 13:24
#8
I got the idea to make a Flamberge from LD actually, because there was a particular Striker that was using a Flamberge to troll around. I play Recon, and when you're on fire as a recon, you basically could not go invis without your cloak breaking. (The weapon description motivated me to finish upgrading the weapon)
Of course this is different now with the buff to Recon's cloak. Also, I learned that if you want someone on fire, you're better off dropping an Ashes of Agni. If you're dropping an AoA, you're usually better off dropping a VT or a Stagger.
Thu, 09/12/2013 - 14:54
#9
Fang of Vog vs
Fang of Vog vs FurFlam:
FurFlam-
Costs:
-Weak fire
-Low chance of Fire
-2nd and 3rd hits difficult to aim
-charge is decent against single enemies and clusters, but not great
Benefits:
-Fast
-Wide first hitbox
-Easy shield cancelling
-Piercing damage
Fang of Vog:
Costs:
-Slow normal attacks
-Self fire is extremely deadly (needs about 14 pts of fire resist to comfortably use charge)
-Smaller hitbox
-Harder to shield after attacks: more vulnerable
Benefits:
-Strong fire chance on each hit
-Charge is wicked powerful (hits 4 times and does around 1500-2000 dmg if all hit)
-Slow speed helps prevent misses due to lag
-Knockback can help in critical situations
In my opinion, get FurFlam. Less dps, but more safety. Personally I would (and have) used FoV against fiends. The damage is honestly amazing, but the charge and attacks leave you wide open for the quick fiend attacks. Excellent against fiends and trojans, but devilities require a little more finesse.
Thu, 09/12/2013 - 22:26
#10
I don't really see how you can even compare the two. They both have a chance of fire. That's where the similarities end. Heck, it's not even the same LEVEL of fire.
Fri, 09/13/2013 - 01:21
#11
@Batabii
They both have a 3 hit combo. They both inflict specialised damage, although one inflicts purely specialised damage.
Fri, 09/13/2013 - 03:36
#12
@Batabii
Actually, the combo of both swords inflict moderate fire.
If you don't believe me, take your FoV to a training hall and set a bag on fire with the combo. Then set another bag on fire with the charge. See how the damage is higher for the charge's fire?
Well, the base damages of these swords are listed on their wiki pages. The guild Lancer Knightz has detailed data on the damage of these swords at many levels of damage bonus. In this thread, Zeddy has a detailed table of damage arising from fire. To use it, you need to know that Fang of Vog inflicts moderate fire on its regular attacks, and strong fire on its charge attack.
To completely answer your question, you also need data on the chances of fire. Don't trust FoV's "good chance" description; that might be talking about the charge attack. I haven't seen detailed, reliable data. Personal experience suggests that FoV does ignite monsters more often than FF does, though.
I must point out that there are considerations other than damage output. With piercing swords, one often uses just the first stroke against fiends, because it is wide. FoV's first stroke is not wide, so it may be harder to use against fiends. Also, as Lancer Knightz show you, piercing swords swing faster than FoV.
If you want to beat fiends, I'd suggest Final Flourish or Barbarous Thorn Blade. But if you're a "junk collector" then you probably already have one of those?