Spiral Knights - Continuing the progress of the Ember/Ice/Surgebreak Armor series and how?

Continuing the progress of the Ember/Ice/Surgebreak Armor series and how?

30 replies [Last post]

Sat, 09/14/2013 - 07:14

Modicu

Along my time of playing Spiral Knights for almost a year now, I've always wondered about various ways you can mix-and-match armor in the game, and recieve various benefits from each piece. I've studied the behaviors and traits of various armor setups in the game, and I've always wondered if there would ever be a continuation of the Statusbreak series, beyond their 3-star potential.

Let's look at it this way:

- Several sets of armor in the game can be mix-and-matched to provide equal defenses, as well as other benefits such as health bonuses, resistances, and any potential UVs. For example, you can match a set of Cobalt Armor and a Jelly Helm, and the defensive power that each item provides will equal out, allowing for maximum protection, as well as gaining the resistances from the Jelly Helm. This continues all the way through the Azure Guardian Armor/Helmet, and the Royal Jelly Crown/Mail, and carries the same benefits, respectively. This same result can be done with the Almirian Crusader Armor/Helmet and a Dread Skelly Mask/Suit, both balancing out their defensive power and carry over the given resistances, well... except you'll still be more vulnerable to fire due to the armor, unless you have a Wetsome Pendant or a UV that negates the weakness. I also noticed that this can also be pulled from a set of Blizzbreak Armor and an Elemental Hood, as they both balance out in defenses, and the Elemental Hood negates (and even improves) the weaker conditions of the Blizzbreak Armor, while having a supreme resistance to freeze.

- Now, how would we continue the advancements of the Statusbreak series? The Magic/Owlite series will provide the same defenses that would allow the two mismatched pieces to fit together and provide adept benefits, as well. Think about it: There are already several armor sets in the game that can balance each other out for superior defenses, so why not make it carry over to elemental-structured armors, as well?

I was thinking that if the armor WAS carried beyond the 3-star restriction, it would carry a similar effect to the Angelic/Seraphic/Valkyrie series, and have the weaknesses of the armor extended as they are upgraded, but their main resistance would be unmatchable. To put it into easier terms, imagine wearing a set of Hailstorm Armor (4-star Blizzbreak Armor that can be upgraded at level 5 or higher), and the freeze resistance is up to an unusual amount, such as 4 bars worth of the resistance. The weaknesses to fire and shock will be of a medium or high amount to counter this increase in icy protection, which can be omitted with either UVs or a Miracle Hood's resistances to the two elements can omit them. Afterwards, you'll gain an equal amount of both normal and elemental defense, which is probably a rather viable choice, especially considering if you want to take on the Roarmulus Twins, as this can prove useful (defensive-wise, maybe not so much resistance-wise, depending on how it's handled).

I understand that there are other armors in the game that make this look like a horrid choice, but think about it carefully. The 5-star versions of each of the Statusbreak Armors/Helms will provide an incredible amount of normal and elemental resistance if paired carefully with other equipment, as well as having an entire, maximized resistance (the whole resistance bar would be filled) to said status. It may seem like it'll be useless, and I know that there are armor sets out there that'll smear these armors to the wall. The whole point is to circle protection around one central element, while providing great defensive opportunities. The weaknesses of the armors may hold you back, but if you know what you have to face in your travels... then having an ultimate amount of resistance power around that element will definitely prove worth while.

I thought of a few cheesy names last night before I dozed off, so I'll leave them here:

Emberbreak Helmet/Armor --> Firebreak Helmet/Armor --> Blazebreak Helmet/Armor --> Firestorm Helmet/Armor --> Magma Mask/Suit
Frostbreak Helmet/Armor --> Icebreak Helmet/Armor --> Blizzbreak Helmet/Armor --> Hailstorm Helmet/Armor --> Gelid Mask/Suit
Circuitbreak Helmet/Armor --> Voltbreak Helmet/Armor --> Surgebreak Helmet/Armor --> Lightningstorm Helmet/Armor --> Galvanized Mask/Suit

I don't know if this topic was asked before, but I just thought I'd take a shot at it. What are your thoughts if the armor set were to be continued in some way? How would we try to balance it out?

Sat, 09/14/2013 - 07:30

Bopp

pretty good, but here are some comments

Your idea is novel, and your post is pretty well-written. Some comments:

Pretty soon, someone is going to show up telling you to move this to the Suggestions forum. Not me, though. ;)

You call them "Elementbreak" armors, when they should probably be called "Statusbreak" armors. What distinguishes them is the statuses that they protect against, right?

Most experienced players on this forum don't care about any of the sets you've mentioned (except maybe as curiosities). The dominant armor strategy in this game is to go for armor that gives you offensive bonuses: Wolver, Gunslinger, Demo, and Chaos. So I fear that your new armor sets would just increase the number of unused armors in the game. For an extreme version of what I mean, read this thread, which simply recommends Chaos in every situation.

Sat, 09/14/2013 - 07:33

Usevnsevnsixfivfor

Lol get a Magic set and forget about Freeze resist. Easy as done.

Sat, 09/14/2013 - 07:41

Modicu

@Bopp

That thread was definitely an interesting read. I'm one of the players who like to mix-and-match various equipment, for the situations I might be faced with. I may not always favor sheer damage and power at times, but I do go with what I can to maximize my survivability in combat, and this is focused on protection, and having great resistances and other various perks from anything I might have in my questionable arsenal. I've never thought of going with a Chaos set, but I might try it sometime. It does look appealing with its offensive capabilities, but I might try to find something to help match out some of the weaknesses it has.

I do like your thought about the "Elementbreak" armor being referred to as "Statusbreak" armor. You raise a good point, there.

I will also move this thread to the appropriate forum. Thank you for that.

@Usevnsevnsixfivfor

I do prefer the Magic Set, but the problem is that the freeze status problem can be quite a chore to deal with. You may not take the damage that the enemies sustain when the ice breaks, but it does immobilize you, leaving you vulnerable to being attacked by other vicious enemies. When you're adventuring alone, this is excessively rough to deal with, even if you have enough remedy capsules. You never know what'll hit you in the Clockworks.

Sat, 09/14/2013 - 07:46

Little-Juances

The set starts at 1*. No 1* weapon/armor gets carried to 5* due to ragecrafting and fishing for UVs.
End of story.

Sat, 09/14/2013 - 07:56

Bopp

that would be changed

Little-Juances, that's a good point, but it's not hard to change its alchemy tree to start at 2-star. There is precedent; for example, the Haze Bomb alchemy tree has changed dramatically over time.

Sat, 09/14/2013 - 08:05

Battlegrinder

@Little-Juances

Given the change to the the crafting system in the sprite update, I'm not sure rage crafting holds true these days, since it's so much harder to craft gear. Secondly, given that the statusbreak armor is and would be a underused armor (as Bopp pointed out), I don't think that the greater odds of getting a UV on it would have much of an effect on the game.

@OP
This is a great idea. That statusbreak armors are some of my favorite early game sets, and I'd love to see them be progressed up to 5*.

Sat, 09/14/2013 - 11:26

Hexzyle

Unfortunately, as U7654

Unfortunately, as U7654 mentioned, the Firebreak and Voltbreak equipment are made nearly redundant by the Owlite set. The only benefit they get is one additional point of resistance for their star rating, but that's barely useful when the other defensive armors have far greater utility. Nearly every defensive armor has multiple status resists. (The exception being Ironmight, which is in need of a small buff so it's on par with Volcanic)

The elemental equipment with freeze resistance is already covered by Bombastic Demo, Nameless and Heater.

Sat, 09/14/2013 - 12:00

Zeddy

A few things to keep in mind.

Enemies in general do not have status infliction stronger than +4. (Strong)
Status can't be reduced down to below -6. In case of weaker sources, this turns you immune to them, but in case of +4 this just makes the status cap at -6.
-6 is not all that much less than -4, so having more than a total of 8 resistance is not all that impressive except for immunity.

They'd be largely ignored sets of armour. Why get Firebreak when I could get Volcanic Demo? Why get freezebreak when I could get Nameless? Why get shockbreak when I could get merc demo or Gray Feather?

Extended statusbreak sets would need some additional bonus to keep up with other 5* sets. Maybe something like increasing the strength of your own status attacks.

Sat, 09/14/2013 - 12:31

Modicu

@Everyone

I've updated the post a little bit.

What I am getting at is each Statusbreak set is bound around providing you with the best resistance for particular areas of the Clockworks. If we were to extend the reach of those sets to a higher level, they will definitely prove useful in the journey to come.

For instance, let's look at the Magma Mask & Suit I mentioned in my post. Both armors will have a severe weakness to freezing and electrical attacks, but the sheer output in fire protection will definitely prove useful in missions such as Terminal Meltdown and The King of Ashes. The normal and elemental protection granted by the upgraded armors will allow those to survive longer in harsher environments that center their power around one key element. Whether it's fire, ice, or electricity, theses armors have definitely been a reliable set when it comes to certain areas of the Clockworks.

I know there are better armors in the game, but it was worth a shot trying to see about how it would turn out.

As for what Zeddy said, if a bit of coding can be done, then perhaps that would prove useful. I would have also said that maybe the 5-star sets of the Statusbreak equipment can make the wearer completely immune to the status they are designed to protect against. It'd seem fitting, and it might give the armor an upperhand in future situations.

Sat, 09/14/2013 - 12:33

#10

Troll-Lolo

Well...

I do want the Breaker lines to go somewhere, be unique in a special way. Maybe add a bit of offense? Like for the ember line, Increased Fire infliction damage. Meaning your fire line weps shine more. It would be low at 4* and Med at 5*.

Unfortunately, when things start at 1*, they're, by principle of the game, kind of banned from going on to 5*, because of rage crafting. The scale set is an interesting example. It has the 1* counterpart, but no 2*. To prevent a easy shortcut to uvs. If the breaker series goes on, it would need a crafting line revamp. If 2* was cut, then it would be 1*-3*,4*,5*. The recipes could be continued as Basil recipes, or given to Zebulon(the specialist) in the HoH. I wonder about what the developer's original ideas for the breaker series was.

Sat, 09/14/2013 - 13:00

#11

Modicu

That's quite interesting...

Well, if you were to compare the Spiral Scale Mail with the Cobalt Armor, both provide the same defenses, just the Cobalt Armor provides a health bonus, along with greater normal and piercing defenses, as well. I know the Cobalt Armor also can't be directly crafted/upgraded from the Scale Mail, but it was a rather interesting comparison.

As for your idea about the elemental-damage buff of what the sets revolve around, that's definitely interesting. The only thing that might draw this back, is that if you are wearing the Magma set in a Blast Furnace level... fire damage wouldn't be as potent. The same goes for the other armor sets, as well, if they are worn in their respected environments. We could go with having each armor provide a set increase of a specific weapon category, though. Fire could deal with melee/swrods, since you can "spread the love of fire" when you're up close. Shock can deal with range/handguns, because who doesn't love blasting enemies to death with energy-powered handguns. Ice can be centered with bombs, as ice can be quite explosive under the right conditions.

This is just something else, but I know there aren't any 1-star sets that provide protection from shadow damage, and maybe a low resistance to something. Maybe in the future, there might be another set update or promotion, similar to the Ignition Set promotion.

Sat, 09/14/2013 - 13:04

#12

Zeddy

"Statusbreak equipment can make the wearer completely immune to the status they are designed to protect against."

I like this, though the implementation might prove... interesting? So far I don't think even 20-something status resistance has not proven to eliminate strong status, so it would either have to be some kind of hard-coded set bonus, making one piece worthless on its own, or a single piece would need an obscene amount of status resistance, making a single piece overpowered.

Sat, 09/14/2013 - 16:07

#13

Modicu

@Zeddy

Regardless, that could be better and lead to a higher use of the 4 - 5-star Statusbreak armor and helmets. Being completely immune to a status condition is definitely something I'd invest and get my hands on, as would everyone else, too. It may take some odd coding to get it done, but that'll make the equipment live up to their names.

On another note, I've already thought of a few descriptions for the 5-star sets. Maybe later on I'll bump this with some manipulated images and such I made in Gimp, demonstrating some of the abilities the equipment will have and such, as well as their perks, drawbacks, and maybe even designs.

Sat, 09/14/2013 - 16:46

#14

Hearthstone

Lightningstorm

I automatically support this. Besides, now I can properly go RT with Status Break armor :)

Sat, 09/14/2013 - 20:31

#15

Usevnsevnsixfivfor

"You never know what'll hit you in the clockworks."

Of course I do. Look at the mission description, look at the Gate Icon, look at the title of the level, see if there are any message lamp things (such as lichens are no problem solo but are devestating in a group), listen to the music, and look at the background. Also, while Freeze resist is quite useful, Freeze weakness (I use PMoS so I know, so calling me a noob will not send truckloads of chocolate on your front porch) or no Freeze resist is not too dangerous, especially if you have a bomb/driver and a shield or a lvl 25/50 Drakon/lvl 25 Maskeraith/lvl 50 Seraphinx, and even less dangerous in a party. So please, unless you are planning to make Toxoil armor, please graveyard this.

Sun, 09/15/2013 - 10:53

#16

Modicu

@U77654

Your tone is rather aggressive, but hear me out. The sole purpose of these armors are to provide the wearer with incredible protection from a specific element. I know you can investigate what enemies you'll face in the Clockworks from several references. I was making a simple statement about how the Clockworks are described as "always changing." I was not wanting to start any unnecessary quarrels.

On another note, I do have a slight update to what I've been pondering about for the Statusbreak equipment and their further upgrades beyond 3-stars, and this is demonstrated on the "Magma Mask & Suit", as seen below. If you recall from one of my posts above, I said the following:

"We could go with having each armor provide a set increase of a specific weapon category, though. Fire could deal with melee/swords, since you can "spread the love of fire" when you're up close."

Here's what I have defined for the 5-star Magma Set. Please note, these are manipulated images, and they do not exist:

Magma Mask: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/51015211/Equipment-Magma_Mask_Stats.png

"When it comes to protecting your head from scorching debris or fiery storms, this stalwart helmet will surely prove to your allies that when it comes to subduing your scorching enemies... you subdue them with the hottest passion there is."

Magma Suit: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/51015211/Equipment-Magma_Suit_Stats.png

"Not even the hellish flames that burn eternally within the Firestorm Citadel will scorch this mighty suit of armor, allowing the wearer to smother even the most fiery of enemies within the Clockworks, without having to worry about mending any afterburns."

For those of you who enjoy keeping your foes on their toes and in the heat of battle, this set will definitely suit your needs. You get aggressive melee power, immunity to fire, and great defenses. Just make sure you don't travel through a blizzard or venture into an electrical power station with proper gear.

This goes for the other 5-star Statusbreak Sets, as well, with their respected perks and resistances. These armors are designed to be mix-and-matched, but you can wear the set itself to elevate your performance against one key element of nature, and one solid role in combat.

Sun, 09/15/2013 - 11:25

#17

Battlegrinder

@Cyberpony

Out of curiosity, have you considered having the *5 statusbreak armors start dealing out hits from their respective statuses? Something like having the magma set have chance to deal fire damage, that kinda thing. I have no idea how balanced it would be, but its worth thinking about at least.

I do think having the status sets have abilities is a good idea, since it would help them gain popularity with players. However, making the bonuses universal might be better than having them be weapon type specific, since currently a 5* status set would be weaker then the dedicated gunslinger/bomber/swordmaster armors. With a universal bonus, the set could become a sort of mini-chaos with better balance. Each armor set would boost 2 attributes, so that you could still mix and match to get the bonuses you want, but the set would be more useful to both hybrids and pure users. For example:

Fire: ASI, damage
Shock: ASI, CTR
Ice: CTR, damage

That's just my 2 cents.

Sun, 09/15/2013 - 12:13

#18

Inferno-Forum

Derpuraptor Strikes Back

@the post(er) with stats concept art
No, because that would make Vog useless. Plus, if you have to add a new sword set, make the other two gunner-style and bomber-style.

Sun, 09/15/2013 - 12:58

#19

Battlegrinder

@ Inferno-Forum

No, it wouldn't. Vog is more than fire and elemental defense, it's also the go-to ASI booster. the new magma set would only have ASI medium and damage medium, which which make it an alternative to Vog, but it doesn't outclass it. The statusbreak armor would be more of a general purpose set, providing solid utility and defense while still leaving room for other armor to enhance a specific aspect. For example, I wouldn't use magma over Vog, because I find damage bonus less then helpful and dislike status weaknesses, and would prefer a strong ASI boost. In fact (as I implied in post 17), I find the current stats on the statusbreak armor a little underpowered, and think they could use a faint buff (and even then, I don't think they outperform Vog).

Sun, 09/15/2013 - 13:23

#20

Modicu

@Inferno-Forum

"As for your idea about the elemental-damage buff of what the sets revolve around, that's definitely interesting. The only thing that might draw this back, is that if you are wearing the Magma set in a Blast Furnace level... fire damage wouldn't be as potent. The same goes for the other armor sets, as well, if they are worn in their respected environments. We could go with having each armor provide a set increase of a specific weapon category, though. Fire could deal with melee/swords, since you can "spread the love of fire" when you're up close. Shock can deal with range/handguns, because who doesn't love blasting enemies to death with energy-powered handguns. Ice can be centered with bombs, as ice can be quite explosive under the right conditions."

These sets function under a risk/reward style of how they should be used. Each set has their own abilities and weaknesses, making it paramount that the player chooses the correct gear, to maximize their output, while keeping them alive in combat. As I said, these sets can be mix and matched to increase your combat dynamics and protection, but choosing carefully is a wise option.

As for what you said in your previous post, Battlegrinder, I like the ideas you had. They could be more universal, indeed. The Statusbreak armor will provide greater defenses in general, as compared to the other armor types out there, but maybe something can be done to make them stand out from the others, and perhaps used more.

Sun, 09/15/2013 - 16:34

#21

Usevnsevnsixfivfor

"Your tone is rather aggresive..."

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

"The sole purpose of these armors are to provide the wearer with incredible protection from a specific element."

Isn't that why OOO made Jelly, Magic, and Skelly? Pierce w/ stun and sleep, Elemental w/ fire and shock, and Shadow w/ freeze and poison? If you want super-insane-status-resistance, get some UVs and cope with it.

Mon, 09/16/2013 - 17:08

#22

Modicu

You're missing the point here.

I understand, and know, that there are other armor sets in the game that provide great resistances, such as the ones your listed above. Unique Variants can be awesome to have, but acquiring the higher and rarer ones can be rough, and even rage-inducing. But for now, I'll remind you again of what these sets revolve around.

The armor sets I'm discussing here are for specific situations where most other armor sets might prove ineffective, or even unreliable. The Magma Set will help players survive the brutal conditions of the Blast Furnace and the Firestorm Citadel without much stress put on them, and enhancing their melee tactics. The Gelid Set will boast incredible power against the icy depths of the Clockworks, such as the Cooling Chamber or the Heart of Ice mission, while increasing their explosive power. The Galvinized Set will allow the wearer to travel through even the strongest of electrical currents, and remain unaffected, while topping off their handgun damage. These armors are not ones you can wear in every depth and hope to receive nothing but benefits, or flaunt in front of everyone. They can be strong in the right areas, and weak in the areas they are not. They do boast great strength, but also harsh vulnerabilities which can minimize your chances of survival. Now, if you want to wear these armors in an environment they're not suited for, be my guest. I like to mix and match my armor, to attempt to maximize my survivability when on a journey.

That's the point of these sets I'm trying to talk about. They're designed to be mismatched with other equipment, but they can be worn together, in the right place, at the right time.

Mon, 09/16/2013 - 14:29

#23

Battlegrinder

@Cyberpony

So basically, they're going to be the new dragon scale set?

Mon, 09/16/2013 - 17:07

#24

Modicu

@Battlegrinder

You could say that, since these sets are designed for situations where mismatching them with other equipment may prove useful. I've never really used the Dragon Scale Set before, but I do have a set of Silvermail lying around in my arsenal.

From what I recall, the Scale Sets you get from Zebulon are designed to be mix-and-matched with other sets of armor, right? Hmm... I see where your point is leading, in a way.

Mon, 09/16/2013 - 17:16

#25

Battlegrinder

@Cyberpony

Dragon scale is considered the ideal set for Compound 42. Magic line, chromalisk, and silvermail are the most commonly used mix-and-match armors, since they have a wider range of damage and status defenses.

Mon, 09/16/2013 - 17:47

#26

Modicu

Hmm..

I see...

Dragon Scale is maximized piercing and elemental defense, plus the poison and fire resistance, along with a damage buff against slimes (or was it beasts?), right? I rarely see any players wearing the armor, but from what I recall when checking the recipes Zebulon offered, I think those are the right statistics.

Hmm... what are your thoughts revolving around currently?

Tue, 09/17/2013 - 19:06

#27

Battlegrinder

@Cyberpony

Those are the rights stats (and the damage buff is for slimes).

Not sure what you're asking about in your last sentence, but I'll give it my best shot. I think your suggestion is a good starting point for a more general discussion on the current balance of the various armor sets and shields in the game. Retooling the numerous unused armor (and some of the more egregiously over-used ones) is something I hope to see come out of this upcoming expansion/mega-patch.

Also, I have some other suggestions for the names of the 4* and 5* sets.

Emberbreak Helmet/Armor --> Firebreak Helmet/Armor --> Blazebreak Helmet/Armor --> Infernobreak Helmet/Armor --> Firestorm Helmet/Suit
Frostbreak Helmet/Armor --> Icebreak Helmet/Armor --> Blizzbreak Helmet/Armor --> Cryobreak Helmet/Armor --> Hailstorm Helmet/Suit
Circuitbreak Helmet/Armor --> Voltbreak Helmet/Armor --> Surgebreak Helmet/Armor --> Boltbreak Helmet/Armor --> Linghtningstorm Helmet/Suit

This way the armor continues to have the status-break them up until the final upgrade, and when when it gains the offensive bonuses the name changes to reflect that. I wonder if giving the full set a (low) chance to inflict it's particular status would be balanced.....

Sun, 09/29/2013 - 15:14

#28

Modicu

Sorry about the inactivity.

I've been going through a lot of studies recently, from multiple sources, and this resulted in my focus in this thread dwindling off. I do apologize in advance if this has caused a sort of inconvenience.

@Battlegrinder

Hmm... I like your thoughts about the names of the sets. I thought of the names in my original post overnight, so they lacked some construct and thought, despite having Spiral Knight-like vocabulary in the 5* pieces, respectively.

I do like the idea of having a chance to inflict a particular status as you strike at your foes, but that brings up what I said in one of my previous posts, about how this will be made redundant if you're in a location of the Clockworks where you're met with the same opposition that your armor is fortified to protect your from.

Perhaps it could be done that if the wearer takes damage, that the armor (or helm, if only one of the two is equipped) will have a low - medium chance of causing an elemental explosion around the player, sort of like a miniature energy blast, just it lacks the deadly knockback and stun, and instead inflicts the given status on anything caught in the explosion. (The attacker how triggered it will always receive the status infliction, unless they are immune to it.) The blast will deal damage equal to about 50% of the elemental defense of the armor, and like so, the blast will inflict pure elemental damage. The wearer will also still take damage from their enemy, but think of it as a counter attack, in some cases. The damage is amplified if the player has the specific set equipped, and not mismatched. However, mismatching them can lead to a unique array of elemental explosions and an aggressive play style.

Sun, 09/29/2013 - 15:37

#29

Klipik-Forum

I has idear
And they don't need to add an ember gun anymore, they did that.

Mon, 09/30/2013 - 06:57

#30

Zerokken

MANLY ARMOR DISCUSSION

Dragon Scale has a damage bonus against Beasts. I'm not really bothering to check the wiki, because I still remember how it was the Chroma stuff that resisted it.

Search

Continuing the progress of the Ember/Ice/Surgebreak Armor series and how?