Spiral Knights - Should/Could Catalyzer charge attacks set off charges stuck to other enemies nearby?

Should/Could Catalyzer charge attacks set off charges stuck to other enemies nearby?

9 respuestas [Último envío]

Jue, 10/10/2013 - 08:20

Toeni-Sevan

*Don't get me wrong, I love this gun type. It's sub-optimal compared to other weapons, but usable if you're patient. I would not be opposed to hear reasons why not and learn to use this gun even more effectively with suggested arguments.*

The gunner update is coming soon, and although we're all super anxious about the Iron Slug (perhaps even Callahan), there's another gun I want to see become "more of a primary weapon" -patch note quote.
(I was gonna propose that the charge attack wouldn't alert enemies but then I realized that's ridiculous.)

-Would it be overpowered if charges set off by this gun set off charges on another enemy?

To clarify, the catalyzer is a gun line with slow bullets much like the pulsar line. Pulsar's unexpanded bullets do the same damage as a normal catalyzer shot. However, the catalyzer's charge shot is vastly different. The charge shot does no initial damage (however it does alert enemies) and orbits the enemy for about twenty seconds. When struck once again by a normal catalyzer bullet, be it your shot or a teammates' (Unlikely nowadays; catalyzer users you guys rock.) the charge that was orbiting the enemy explodes in a small radius. You can stack charge shots and create a large amount of delayed damage to keep an enemy from healing or retreating. (Biohazard is useful in this respect as it poisons) The hardest part of using this gun in my opinion is hitting the enemy that has the charges orbiting it. Sometimes, not all the time, I struggle to hit the enemy that I've set charges on. I believe the Catalyzer line to be crowd control, bombing targets from a distance. If I could tag many enemies and shoot a single bullet to kill them all in one fantastic explosion as I look away, smiling, would that be too much? I refrain back to the title. "Should/Could Catalyzer charge attacks set off charges stuck to other enemies?"

Things you should know about this gun.
*The charge explosions have less range, but do more damage than most bombs. Neutralizer charges do more than a standard Nitro(d)ome.
*The charge attack has an extremely fast charge speed! You can dish these out pretty fast as long as you're safe about it, then set them all off in a screen shaking explosion. The animation however is as slow as a normal charge, restricting you to about one charge a second. ASI mitigates this a small amount.
*IF you were in a party armed with catalyzer lines (which is very unlikely), the gun can become one of your best tools, no longer being a source of delayed damage and becoming more constant as friends can focus on planting charges or setting them off. This is a weapon that gets better the more a team unifies around it.
*IF you're a badass, you can shoot the charge in-between two or even three enemies and they will all get a charge. 2-3 charges for the price of 1, but you will have to shoot them individually.

I don't know if this proposed change is overpowered or not, but I'm one guy, and I want to know what you think about it. I don't believe it would be breaking, since you still have to shoot the charges in order to get them set in the first place. Would it be too much to allow chain reactions across enemies?

I love this gun. As a bomber starting out when I learned about a gun that shoots bombs I freaked out and got it. I remember being called many things in the training hall for wasting tokens on the Catalyzer when I could have gotten the pulsar. The bullets are slow, and while some say it should be faster, that would be much too powerful. Nowadays I get less flak for it, probably because now people think I'm one of those "specialists" that I'm absolutely not (I wanna be though...). Currently I'm working my Volatile Catalyzer into Neutralizer so I can dual it with my faithful Biohazard. I can live without these changes, but I also think that it would be a good adjustment to a (mostly) underused weapon. I'm suggesting it cause I want it to become more of a primary weapon to everyone else.

Jue, 10/10/2013 - 12:20

Terra-Necro

*slaps Toeni-Sevan*

Gimmeh yo sole. I wannah munsh on eet anh wub eet een yo wittle fase!«

Jue, 10/10/2013 - 12:31

Draycos

I'd use it a lot more if it marked enemies on normal shots and detonated them on charged shots. Some tweaks here and there like a limit to how many charges you can plant on one enemy would balance it out a bit, I think.

Jue, 10/10/2013 - 12:44

Zeddy

Catalyzer charges can set off charges on other enemies, but the explosion needs to hit the orb itself, not just the enemy it orbits.

I think it should, though.

Jue, 10/10/2013 - 13:42

Arilys

"Gizmoooo!"

I think it should. I mean, the only difference is that right now you have to shoot more normal shots to set off the charges on all the different enemies. The Catalyzer guns are supposed to be used mostly for their charge (I guess. Correct me if I'm wrong), so I guess that reducing the amount of "tries" you need to take to set off all the charges would make it fill that purpose better...

That said, I don't mind if OOO does that change or not. If they do, awesome. If they don't... well, the Catalyzer is still super fun to use and surprisingly powerful when used right :p

Vie, 10/11/2013 - 04:40

Midnight-Dj

Here are a few points why people rarely choose pulsar over catalyzers and bombs in general (sorry Zeddy, but the shock pulsar... it is... too much!!!)

-Catalyzer is actaully bad in group, despite what you said Toeni, because one of the major complain I get from cata users is that the enemies they tagged with their charged shots are killed quickly by others who have swords or other guns. The efficiency of other weapons nullifies the effect of the catalyzer, while pulsar's knock back is unaffected in most situations.

-Catalyzer is more crowd control bent than pulsar, and it is 'crowd-control' only when there IS actually a mob of enemies, using catalyzer charge shots to kill individual enemy is a pain. But pulsar on the other hand, can lock down individual enemies and push them into corners, weaken and stagger them, then the user can charge in with a sword for the finishing blow.

-Catalyzer is near useless in LD, you will never see anyone use it. Unless if OOO buffed the bullet speed, that way the gun can be a viable option for recon and guardian. They can use catalyzer to 'tag' enemy skolver clones and deal damage even if they flee the area as the charge shot expire and explode. (guardian and recon: XD)

-Catalyzer is fun indeed, but how long will the fun last as the players are encountered with much more mobile and durable opponents in the deeper parts of cradle? (try to hit a T3greaver with a catalyzer charged shot, it is impossibur!!!) But pulsars can almost keep anything at bay as long as it is properly used.

-Catalyzer is damage takes time, and SK is undoubtly a GRINDFEST(ever tried heating your stuff in non boss level?). If the game itself is already a grind, then there is no reason to extent the suffering for yourself, choose kill efficiency over anything else. Not everybody play a game for the fun, some get addicted and they eventually become a slave to their character's progression and status in the game. This happens to me and to many others, you can't blame us for getting addicted to a game, it is what the game is designed to do. (the mist tank was only thing that didn't drive me insane now that I thought about it. )

-I can see catalyzer as a bomb-gun hybrid weapon, like how winmillion is a sword-gun hybrid. But in SK, the weapons that can perform at their end of the extreme will always beat the 'Jack of all trade' weapons( levi blade < any other sword , even CIV and suda don't wanna hangout with that piece of crap). It is probably the best if a player can get a good bomb and a good gun as supose to getting a weapon that is not much of a gun or a bomb.[Generalization < Specialization] that is the rule of Spiral Knights.

Vie, 10/11/2013 - 08:34

Toeni-Sevan

Midnight-Dj....

You didn't comment about the suggestion at all!

Vie, 10/11/2013 - 21:33

Midnight-Dj

@Toeni-sevan

Yeah...I do go off topic sometimes. But those are just some of the reasons why catalyzer is not prefered over pulsars. You have to realize that until catalyzer is given with some better killing efficiency, or hell, getting an elemental varaint of the gun(with freeze status !!! The ultimate shivermist/hail driver hybrid!), the catalyzer will never be a popular gun. Sure it is fun, but it will get boring and I can guarantee that.

However, I don't see why all the charged shot tagged on different enemies should be set off by one normal shot. The way I see it, change it into, the explosion of a charge shot can set off other charged shot nearby, thus a chain reaction can happen after you tagged several enemies in a mob.

Or extend the charge time, but instead of shooting one charged shot, it shoots out three, and they spread out like shotgun pellets. These shots will then glue themselves onto nearby enemies. Then, a normal shot can set off the charges. How is that sounds? The shotgun spread of the charged shot will decrease the chance of the bullet missing the intended target and can tag more enemies in a shorter interval ( not one charge at a time ), thus providing a crowd control buff to the catalyzer.

Dom, 10/13/2013 - 04:26

Dagunner

Catalyser chain bombs + 1

Catalyser chain bombs + 1 it would make the gun actually useable. Also having the orb lets explode on monster death be useful as it would make it more of a support weapon, causing a slight amount of cover for swordsmen.

Also as midnight Dj said, generalisation

Dom, 10/13/2013 - 04:28

Dagunner

Post always gets half cut off @_@

Also as midnight Dj said, generalisation < specialisation! the neutraliser and super nova are almost never used! most likely due to the other lines dealing powerful status effects, so they should be given their own status effects, nova fets fire, nutralyzer gets ice? The chain bomb freeze be a very useful support weapon, not as good as a shivermist in terms of freezing but more damage.

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Should/Could Catalyzer charge attacks set off charges stuck to other enemies nearby?