Forums › English Language Forums › General › Suggestions

Buscar

Spiral Knights Novel II- On The Arcade, The Selling Point at Spiral Knights

32 respuestas [Último envío]
Mar, 12/10/2013 - 14:52
Imagen de Fehzor
Fehzor

Introduction

First and foremost, the purpose of this small book is to detail what I would like to see in the arcade, and how I would like to see them. Before I start however, I would like to outline some basic expectations that I feel would define the arcade as it is meant to be:

0. Players should be able to change the arcade depending on how much they play.
1. Players should not be motivated by any outside factors when editing the arcade.
2. There should be motivation to build new levels and hunt minerals, or other items required to edit gates. Specifically, to hunt items, play certain levels, or as part of a guild objective.
3. Players should see their contribution to the arcade when they make it.
4. The arcade should be an interesting, almost infinite, experience.

To fulfill these points, I will split my OP into two distinct parts- ideas for fixing the arcade, and ideas for furthering the arcade.

Ideas for Fixing the Arcade

These ideas could prove to be invaluable to the success of the game as a whole, if randomly generated elements and the concept of a "rogue-like nature" are to be utilized as a major feature. They are both what people come to expect when they see the arcade, and what I believe you the developer have hoped to create.

0. Create An Unbiased Means of Building the Arcade

This means that you should NOT have battle sprites eating the same things that go into creating gates, and that paying the players to deposit into the gates isn't going to get you anywhere either.

Doing either of these things will remove the power from the players, creating gates completely at random and denouncing minerals into nothing but small monetary gain.

A better idea would be to have something like the following, though there could be some kind of variation to suit tastes:
Step One: Collect Minerals (which cannot be used for ANYTHING else)
Step Two: Use Minerals to vote on themes- without receiving ANY crowns; this would be exactly the same as the old construction but without crowns, and clear cut categories to vote for. For instance, deposit purple+red into the "fiend box" to raise its count.
Step Three: If you win the vote, congrats! If you don't, you get your minerals back in the mail. A gate only needs minerals of the winning types.

1. Allow More Control Over Arcade Construction

Allowing additional methods of building gates would be, while not entirely necessary, a huge boon for the game as well. For instance, think of the concept of "world cores", a single level held within a core that would create a level sequence when placed into a gate. Here's how:

Step One: Acquire a world core. These would be hard to acquire and would likely be crafted from a large number of minerals and the likes.
E.G.
Heart Of Ice Core:
2000 crimsonite
2000 valestone
1000 dark matter
1000 moonstone

Step Two: Place the world core into a gate toward the bottom.
Step Three: Players looking to vote on levels would have the original boxes, as well as your special level.
Step Four: If your special level wins the vote, it would be placed into the arcade.

Really, there are many many ways to go about this, and what I've suggested my not be so plausible as I think it would be.

2. Make Certain Items Require Certain Content

In much the same fashion as the items that come from the bosses, it would be much appreciated if we had specific items set aside from normal use. To do this, I would like to see the items divided into two larger groups:

*0. Core Items
These would be things that players use on a common basis, and should be able to purchase with ease. They are things like brandishes, final flourish, haze bombs, alchemers, valiance, things that are the crux of the game. Reliable, sturdy, and over used.

These items would be given out in the hall of heroes as recipes, just as they are currently.

*1. Oddities
These would be things like the graviton bomb, winmillion, iron slug, cautery sword and shard bombs. Things that fewer people use, things that provide a challenge. Things that can prove clutch in certain scenarios, but which make terrible starting weapons.

The game is, to a large extent, already divided up in this manner. What I suggest however, is to deviate much further from the standard formula of "Grind crowns/whatever, craft items, rinse and repeat" that gets dull quickly.

Take these recipes, and make them rarer in the arcade. Make them require special tokens from a particular brand of levels, or make Underworld Drip sell some of them. Make basil offer some of the specialized recipes after danger rooms or add them in as secrets in compounds levels. They shouldn't be impossible to find, but they shouldn't all be sold to you in the hall of heroes. Its just... so dry, to do that.

And this shouldn't stop at this- making a few re-skins of costume armor to place into the arcade would be a great way to kick off a promotion... The event last halloween, prior to the obsidian event, was a grand example of what I'm talking about. Make a new set of costume armor, even a dull re-coloration type thing, and then send it out into the arcade... then make a sold set of boxes to go with it! The new armor could be placed anywhere from inside of random boxes on specific content to the ends of danger missions to only on compounds.

Blatantly reskinned things that would easily sell well:
-Kat-Hats that match popular styles- Surge, cool, shadow etc.
-Halos of any sort- "leafy", "flies", even the normal styles of heavy, fancy, etc.
-Shadowy version of the "guardian" armors sold with the guardians pack
-existing proto gear, doesn't even need reskinning
-groundbreaker- not the traditional gold, but take off the beta sign and you can make it look however you'd like.

...And then, you make a few exclusives. For instance- "Costume expansion!" would have some combination of the above placed into the arcade. Then, special commemorative boxes would be sold for CE, or directly given to players for purchases. These boxes would contain some of the new items in the arcade, but would also contain special event only gear.

This wouldn't be hard at all, and could easily be loved.

3. Provide Incentive For Helping Newer Knights -or- Accelerate Guild Recruitment

One of the most common complaints about the game is that its a ghost town... now, we all know that this isn't true- but the first few levels of the game are often empty and completely void of life. The party finder was a good start, but there are still not enough knights going on the early-game missions- what if you awarded players prestige for going on missions with newer knights, or gave them additional rewards for helping knights through a part of the game for the first time? These rewards would likely be aimed at players that are on the same level as those knights that they would be helping, and would most likely consist of crafting supplies for 2/3* gear.

Another idea would be to accelerate guild recruitment. That is, to induct players into willing guilds early- so as to keep them in the game and give them a group to play with. What could be done, would be to allow a posting board for guilds, and to advertise this board to newer knights. You'd have an area, probably on an interface... if a new knight is having trouble finding people to do say, the first mission involving devilites, then she should see something along the lines of- "Join a guild to-day!", which would pop open the "guild recruitment interface". Doing so would show guilds which the knight could simply click "sign up" on, as well as descriptions of each+links to their guild halls if open. Guild masters would be able to sign their guild up to receive knights, and would provide a description, rules, etc.

On a scale of 1-10, I'd rank this at about an 8 in terms of importance.

4. Freeze Paths in the Arcade.

If there is a randomly generated level, like clockwork tunnels or compounds, then it should have one instance per go around. Currently, the game gets old and we run through every single iteration of clockwork tunnels and compounds every single time we play the game.

The purpose of doing this is to enhance the exploration aspect of the game, allow for reproducible results on runs, and give motivation for the creation of new levels. If I want new levels, I'm going to have to generate them for myself to explore. If there is a cool scenario room on that generation of the level, then we've succeeded, and will come to appreciate such a thing. Levels loaded into missions would also be frozen.

Reproducible results on runs would also allow for things like time trials in the arcade as well as competitive daily missions- rather than being entirely biased towards whomever the RNG chose.

Ideas for Furthering the Arcade

By no means are these necessary- but by all means would they be AWESOME. These are the things that I feel could really be useful when furthering the game as a whole- not just keeping up with expecations, but claiming a spot on the market, putting the spiral knight down as an all star, in Sonic's eyes. Fulfilling what was started. So without further ado-

0. Allow Branching Paths In The Arcade

Currently, if I'm going down, I have to wait for twenty minutes if I want to rotate the arcade gate to a specific point to do a specific level. This is both bad game design, and could be utilized better- certain levels with branching paths could easily incorporate multiple exits and thus multiple paths.

Pivotal parts of the arcade would hold branching paths going down- these would lead to totally separate levels- one side of the CT level I'm on might lead to 2 compounds levels and an arena. The other might lead to a concrete jungle sequence. Both would then conjoin after the same amount of time to either a new level type, or a subtown/midsection.

Under this system, levels would no longer rotate, and outcomes would be statically tied to elevators. It might be challenging to code, but it would allow for many, many, new possibilities within the arcade.

1. True Giants

What I am suggesting is to add in much larger monsters as a sort of danger room type scenario. These larger monsters would have special stats, and would be mostly reworked versions of existing enemies. Each family would likely get one to boot- things like a giant version of the lichen colony or even the jelly green giant, or a larger, blown up version of the griever that would move slowly and cause massive AOE damage. Think vanaduke big, but existing monsters.

They would appear like danger rooms, but would offer an escape. There should be a good chance that knights will not be able to win against them. It would likely cost energy to get to them, and beating them would offer many boxes as a reward- I would place them on compounds, as the "danger room" for that set of levels.

2. Level Variants

Lets say that I'm going down to a bland level, like an ice themed undead clockworks tunnels. In T2 and T3, this would have a chance of being hijacked by phantoms! There are so many variations that could happen, and it would be an awesome addition to elite/advanced modes in particular.

List of potential variations:
-Phantoms would spawn, as if it was a graveyard level. Random bits of graveyard level would be added into the generation.
-All normal blocks become monster cage blocks.
-All pot spawners have a 50% chance of spawning a monster cage instead of a pot.. you'd still be able to get pots out of it, but slowly. +1 to gunners.
-All enemies would be replaced with 2-3 minis (like on compounds) each.. dead gremlins would litter the floor- as if minis took over. Would benefit bombers.
-Two categories of enemies would be switched; for instance, healers and elite enemies would be swapped out.
-The status theme of the level would be split between 2 or more statuses/monsters- shock+fire+construct, Gremlin+beast+fire, something like that.
-The level would be swarm infested, and would contain some elements from the void.

These types of events would occur around 10% of the time in Tier 3, or 5% of the time in T2, so it would be somewhat uncommon to find them... a nice surprise, unless you're scared of phantoms, minis, and large quantities of grievers. I think that it'd be quite exciting to encounter them, and would really add a lot of replay-ability to the game.

Adding additional elements to boss levels, like ice or shock to the royal jelly levels, or changing firestorm citadel to include a portion of shock themed monsters (randomly) in addition to the usual fire would be a welcome change as well- it'd really mix up the strategy, and would fit in with the lore as well as the shadow lairs do. Changes could be specific to the levels being altered- FSC could be made to have half beasts, or even grievers instead of slags at times, while the royal JELLY palace should stick to being JELLY cubes- with ice variants, or blast cube variants. Changing the sub theme of construct on it would be nice, however- jellies+...wolvers or jellies+...gremlins would both be welcome.

Keep in mind that the original bosses in the missions would remain intact.

3. Allow Lower Tiered Bosses To Spawn in T2 and T3

The idea here would be for lower tiered bosses, like the jelly king, to spawn in T3. Higher tiered bosses would NOT spawn before they are due, but lower tiered bosses would have a chance of spawning later on, so while T1 knights couldn't find themselves with fang of vog, T3 players would end up with a brave new challenge to face- the snarbolax.

The levels themselves would not change with the tier whatsoever- except for the difficulty of the mobs within. Shadow lairs would still be challenging beyond normal difficulty, and there would still be one boss per gate. Since players can now challenge bosses at ANY TIME in their correct stratum, this shouldn't be much of an issue.

4. Add a Level Editor

EDIT: I recently had a much better idea than what is written below, found here- http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/108247

A level editor, where players could edit level segments and have them added to the game via some sort of rating system, would drastically increase the amount of replay-abillity in the game as well as reduce the workload on the level designers... in fact, a level editor would probably be the best possible feature to add into the game.

The way I'd see this, would be where players could make "player segments", that would be tested by players and rated on the following:
-[Difficulty]
Which tier is this?
How much should it pay?
-[Style]
How much did I enjoy this?
Was it creative and fun?
-[Length]
Did it take forever?
Was this an entire level?
-[Theme]
Is this a shock level, like it claimed to be?
Or is the level creator a massive troll?
-[play-ability]
Was the level a legitimate level?
Was the level impossible and terrifying?

Players would earn either some trivial amount of currency for testing this, in krogmo coins, crowns, or otherwise, and the level segments would be split into segments based on how they were rated... before being added into a player level segment of the arcade. Player levels in the arcade would be balanced with clockwork tunnels, and would not replace the entire game- not all player levels would be added either. Another option would be to have player made gates.

But really, this could be added in any number of ways. All of which equally amazing.

Mar, 12/10/2013 - 15:14
#1
Imagen de Mushy-Bucket
Mushy-Bucket
---

All very good Fehzor!
One of the most comprehensive posts I've seen in a long time!
+1
_________

The only thing I'd add, would be for OOO to make a tool similar to Spiral Spy, but made in such a way that the work is easily implemented, where players good in game/level design can produce levels that are submitted and then reviewed by someone at OOO. If it's not a level full of boxes and is actually good, then they could add it easily because said tool makes the files in whatever format they need. Lastly, to make it so they don't get a flood of junk, make the tool irritating like Spiral Spy, so only people with plenty of time to think about it (serious people) will submit works.

I suggest this as a way to add to your diversifying the arcade.

Mar, 12/10/2013 - 15:16
#2
Imagen de Fehzor
Fehzor

I was wondering about putting a level editor on here. I think I really should, now that you mention it. I wasn't sure if it'd fit... I guess it'd be in the 2nd section- which is meant to be a bit more far'fetched.

Mar, 12/10/2013 - 15:19
#3
Imagen de Mushy-Bucket
Mushy-Bucket
---

I could always make a separate post about it later on, with more detail, so you can keep this masterfully-crafted (it really is!) thread strictly about in-game business.

Mar, 12/10/2013 - 15:28
#4
Imagen de Bobby-Tortilla
Bobby-Tortilla

I like this post a lot. Not only did you post a lot of interesting suggestions that would make this game so much more fun, you did it without bashing OOO, which the forums seem to like doing right now.

+1

Mar, 12/10/2013 - 15:59
#5
Imagen de Fehzor
Fehzor

Added. And yes, this is something that I would legitimately like for the developers to see and read- not a suggestion to the community, though it does function nicely as that.

Oh man I am tempted to add this somewhere in my OP:

2. Let's add weapon at Spiral Knights.

I wanted to add weapon at Spiral Knights.

But I won't. Now back on topic, don't comment on the strange thread about adding weapon at Spiral Knights.

Mar, 12/10/2013 - 15:59
#6
Imagen de Mushy-Bucket
Mushy-Bucket
---

"Let's add weapon at Spiral Knights."
That thread is so hilariously vague :o

Mar, 12/10/2013 - 16:36
#7
Imagen de Aplauses
Aplauses

2. Let's add weapon at Spiral Knights.
I see what you did there..

Mar, 12/10/2013 - 17:24
#8
Imagen de Fehzor
Fehzor

I knew I shouldn't have done that...

If anyone posts anything below this point regarding the ridiculous thread about "add[ing] weapon at spiral knights" I'm going to graveyard this thread+repost the OP. Please stay on topic. :)

Mié, 12/11/2013 - 00:05
#9
Imagen de Qwez
Qwez
Spiral Knights' weapon multiplication? :3

I shall grill you like I grill'd some Luguiru before. hehehehe long posts are fun.
0) Hypothetically if minerals are not used for Spiralmon foodies, what is going to be used? If minerals are returned on a fail change of theme, so that means that no crown payouts for minerals? If either of these come to fruition many people are likely to skip getting minerals... :( Minerals just for changing the Arcade will not make it worth it in the eyes of many.

1) How long does such a "world"thingy stay in the CW? Only the week or so of time? That's terribly short... Are you perhaps suggesting that one would create a permanent level that is circulated throughout the life of the game? o.o

2) So, you want to make all the lesser-used, "less powerful" weapons harder to get? Logically speaking to me, it'd be the other way around... OP general use weapons are hard to get, but the derpy weapons are easier to get.
I have no comment on the re-skinning... I do not partake in that practice.

3) I feel that all they need to do, is to add options to the Party Finder, such that one can search for certain types of parties to help random noobs, blah blah and whatever. Adding Prestige would add some incentive to go and help new players, but I feel that is not in the spirit of helping others. I believe one should not get material return for something that should have been done out of kindness or something.

4) I feel like this would make Arcade a lot more interesting, as all the missions would become boring to repeat. THOUGH. 90 Prestige missions will be hella boring to do... I used to do them because they were readily available missions that were different every day. Maybe in the Arcade and regular Missions, we can have frozen paths, but it really takes the fun away from the 90 prestige missions if every time, it's exactly the same every couple of days................

0) +1, but probably won't be too difficult to code. The majority of the problems would be in the map design that allows people to take different elevators for the different paths, how the elevators are visually different from each other such that the player can distinguish the paths, and some other stuff like that.

1) eh... sure, as long as they're cool like Tortodrones.

2) Make that variance tied to the Difficulty of the run, it'll be much better than tying it to the Tier.

3) Maybe instead of having actual boss fights, make similar substitutes such as the Jolly Green Jelly and use these instead. I feel that this would fit much better.

4) The staff that would be required to sift through the troll and true suggestions is probably more than what OOO can handle at the moment. Not to say that this is a bad idea, but that it'd be highly difficult to handle.

Eh... don't have much to say... Mostly because you're mostly suggesting possibilities and not actual suggestions with defined details, which I can char nice and black.

Mié, 12/11/2013 - 08:13
#10
Imagen de Fehzor
Fehzor

@Qwez
0. Shards could be used in place of minerals, or other options could be put in place... Like scrap metal or something.
1. It would be timed the same as gates were, but with more control still being polled.
2. Think of the dark fang shield- its hard to get, and people want it... but its a 4* owlite shield. These things are curiosities, and should be noted as such. They can be good if you apply them correctly, but should not be given to players under the notion that they are on par with things like brandishes.
3. That would definitely help- though I often see new players and avoid their parties. I speak of the T1 players, of course.
4. The 90 prestige missions would still be randomized every time you played them- which is important as it guarantees some new random content... it would however, augment the gates.
--
0. The challenge would be that it isn't in the game right now- the map design would require changing a few algorithms and inputs... and complications could be costly.
2. If gates are frozen then yes. If not, then no. But overall, the idea of it would be quite wonderful.
3. Exactly! Not bosses, but just large monsters. Meaning no intricate fight, yes huge mob.
4. This is why it is rated- because players should manage to distinguish between awful levels that are spam and levels that are playable and amazing. This is also why it wouldn't stop official content.

This is also why I don't suggest things like that- I think that it shouldn't matter, the fine details of what all things are/have/do. These are, in my eyes, the important issues that should be addressed with the next "arcade reconstruction" patch, and considered for future patches.

Mié, 12/11/2013 - 13:41
#11
Imagen de Mushy-Bucket
Mushy-Bucket
---

To fix the problem of OOO getting a lot of junk/troll level designs, make it hyper annoying, time consuming, and difficult to use like SpiralSpy. I'm excellent with the program (I have pictures if you, for some reason, require proof), and I'm all to familiar with how it is incredibly hard to master. If OOO made it hard to use, only dedicated players would likely submit work, as trolling is generally only fun if it is quick to achieve.

Simply make it have an absence of UI and make it solely based on knowing your way around the files like Spy. Basically, just set up the program like Spy, but make the files something usable by OOO, and obviously remove the Wall. Beyond that, making it to where we can paint large amounts of tiles would be useful, just make that hard to find at the bottom of a mountain of drop-down menus.

Jue, 12/12/2013 - 16:55
#12
Imagen de Fehzor
Fehzor

^I feel like that would kind of take away from the experience of using it though... and would limit the "good levels" that got through. A rating system should easily win out.

Jue, 12/12/2013 - 19:05
#13
Imagen de Mushy-Bucket
Mushy-Bucket
---

True.

Jue, 12/12/2013 - 22:02
#14
Imagen de Waffleconecake
Waffleconecake
How do I what do? /watch?v=3iJAet5p450

Note: I have not read any of the posts due to some feels going on personally, sorry if you answered any of these questions already.

Few things I just think should be addressed as currently I don't quite like this idea.
1. Why are we making the unpopular weapons (aka, the weapons you listed to be made into only random finds in levels) harder to find then the popular ones? This would just cause the underused weapons to be used even less. I doubt i would have ever built the magnus line if I would have to find the recipes in random levels.
I'm not against adding rare, special items to the game, but I am against making an entire weapon style being only a rare event. What I mean is lets the devs made some cool new bomb that was awesome but balanced. Then they made it part of a 1 week event once a year. That would be awful. You know what I would like though? Special, nothing new, reksins being these "oddities". This way the actual weapon, as in how the type works, is easily available but special, cosmetic variations are available for those who want to work for them.

2.Why not instead make minerals back into being the arcade gate manager and then have the shards be used in pet food instead? I think your current idea for arcade moding and pet feeding is a bit unnecessarily complicated. From what I could tell the point of your suggested change to reduce biased in arcade altering but you end up just building a guild bias in your idea. People who chose to go guild-less would have even less of an effect on arcades then they had before.

3. On the subject of making bosses over all more fun to play, I think the actual levels that are themed around the boss that you play before the final battle should have variations. This way you could get the current first level, Sticky banquet (think big castle banquet hall) then a moving dungeons (dark, wet, dungeon that imply that the walls are all one big slime.) then the big slime himself.

Vie, 12/13/2013 - 08:18
#15
Imagen de Warp-Master
Warp-Master

Honestly, Fehzor, I'm surprised that you still bother with this. It's obvious that the developers don't care enough to improve anything about this game, let alone actually read feedback. Still, good ideas. Maybe we should make our own MMO that's like Spiral Knights, only made by people who actually care.

Vie, 12/13/2013 - 09:41
#16
Imagen de Fehzor
Fehzor

@Warp

I've had my ideas put in game before (party finder, which I feel was a good start to the problem of an empty level-set), and I have been responded to. I have a feeling that if this gets enough popularity and is kept up long enough, that it will be seen and like all ideas, considered. I don't expect 100% of it to make it in game, but I think a lot about these things, and this is a list of things that I would REALLY like to see discussed and perhaps implemented into the game. They wouldn't be easy to implement, not all of them at least, but they would be awesome and are what I consider to be actual progress being made in the game's development.

@Waffle-Cone
"Why are we making the unpopular weapons (aka, the weapons you listed to be made into only random finds in levels) harder to find then the popular ones?"

No no, its not like that. I'm all for fixing these, but I think that right now and even if they were fixed, that they fill niche play styles. Think about it this way- if you were a 2* knight, would you want to start with the following plan for success:
-Dread Skelly Mask
-Radiant Silvermail
-Iron Slug
-Deadly Shard bombAdding additional elements to boss levels, like ice or shock to the royal jelly levels, or changing firestorm citadel to include a portion of shock themed monsters (randomly) in addition to the usual fire would be a welcome change as well- it'd really mix up the strategy, and would fit in with the lore as well as the shadow lairs do. Changes could be specific to the levels being altered- FSC could be made to have half beasts, or even grievers instead of slags at times, while the royal JELLY palace should stick to being JELLY cubes- with ice variants, or blast cube variants. Changing the sub theme of construct on it would be nice, however- jellies+...wolvers or jellies+...gremlins would both be welcome.

Keep in mind that the original bosses in the missions would remain intact.
-Dragon Scale Shield

They would be "harder to find", yes, but that would only add to them as weapons- is the divine avenger that much harder to get than a brandish? Discounting UVs, absolutely not.

Here is how I think progression of weapons and gear should be directed:

0. Player receives basic 1* weapons that are a good fit for any scenario.
1. Player chooses a fit for their play-style. These would be the FOO weapons you see in use to-day.
2. Player masters tactics with their FOO weapon+progresses through the missions, and is now 5*, and farms vanaduke for a while. This is only natural.
3. Player knows of other weapons that are "secrets", that are hard to find and differentiate the "pro players" from the crowd. This drives them to seek them out.
4. Player is now forced to go through danger missions, danger rooms, fight the massive boss monster, climb to the top of gremlin hill- all of which rewards them with something like... deadly shard bomb. Or radiant silvermail.
5. Due to seeking the deadly shard bomb out, the player finds use for it, even if just as a trophy weapon to show off. They discover that it isn't as bad as they thought, but is simply a very niche weapon- and begin to use it when the time, which they can now identify, comes.

"Guild bias instead of..."

That is what I suggested- that we make the arcade just minerals with more control in some manner, with sprite recipes being changed to dis-include minerals. The shards would be my preference.

As far as guilds go, they SHOULD have control over it, though giving them their own functional arcade gate within the guild would be a nice way to prevent the largest guilds from ruining the arcade on purpose.

Themed boss levels will be added to the OP.

"Adding additional elements to boss levels, like ice or shock to the royal jelly levels, or changing firestorm citadel to include a portion of shock themed monsters (randomly) in addition to the usual fire would be a welcome change as well- it'd really mix up the strategy, and would fit in with the lore as well as the shadow lairs do. Changes could be specific to the levels being altered- FSC could be made to have half beasts, or even grievers instead of slags at times, while the royal JELLY palace should stick to being JELLY cubes- with ice variants, or blast cube variants. Changing the sub theme of construct on it would be nice, however- jellies+...wolvers or jellies+...gremlins would both be welcome.

Keep in mind that the original bosses in the missions would remain intact."

Vie, 12/13/2013 - 09:46
#17
Imagen de Thunder-The-Bright
Thunder-The-Bright
gods ain't gonna help you, son.

I guess I'm just quit posting on these threads because of people without hope that crush my hope of finding people that understand that OOO is a small company, is focusing on something else, and that the suggestions are useful for future content, not to implement straight away.

onto the OP:
1)
0 all right, but as you said, it shouldn't be minerals at all. things crafter with materials, maybe; I would rather the minerals to be tied to something that everyone actually uses, not the arcade that "screw that I'm FSCing". there's always the chance.
1 world cores seem insteresting, but it would allow a danger mission to be played many times, or it would just trigger some special rooms?
2 I don't agree. you should be ale to learn the game in whatever way you choose (provided that you know what way you are choosing), even the hard one.
3 yes, yes, dear lord yes.
4 I would say no, cause half of the game relies on that. maybe a guaranteed chance of finding a specific room somewhere, but not all the paths.
2)
0 branching paths, yes. removing randomness, no. you shouldn't be albe to choose your path if you play in a world in constant shift. besides, the world is constantly moving, how the cap are you supposed to fix elevators like that?
1 enemies with some things that are different in danger rooms? of course yes!
2 yes, yes, dear lord yes. I want this so much.
3 all right, but rooms should be changed accordingly, cause you can't fight snarby without bells and the RT without seeing where they shoot.
4 all right as much as it is controlled somehow.

Vie, 12/13/2013 - 10:18
#18
Imagen de Fehzor
Fehzor

My thought and reasoning is that currently there is no true exploration- we just go down and pathfind our way through the same set of level parts over and over again, traversing simple trees for levels. These trees are different every single level, which means that regardless of how we build them- every gate is exactly the same. Locking them in place would create more memorable gates and would give incentive to see stratums again, which is the goal for all of this- to motivate people to actually partake in things. Would it take away from the game? Yes, in that you couldn't explore everything in 10 minutes.

World cores would be danger missions, level sequences of all sorts (like blighted boulevard), arenas (which would be balanced by clockwork tunnels and mediocre levels, but would be placed appropriately in the sequence and with greater frequency), Arkus would be made summonable into the arcade and would be placed at the end of the stratum. They would still be made voteable on, and would be returned over and over until they did get into the game. So if I really want to fight arcade-Arkus, I could spam that until it is chosen- which would keep options up there and provide incentive for people to use the feature over plain voting for stratums. But if people never want Arkus, people never have to actually vote him in. Multiple Arkus cores in the arcade would multiply the chances that Arkus ends up there by a scaled factor:
1 core = x1
2 cores = x1.7
3 cores = x2.2
4 cores = x2.5

But there are a ton of ways this could be done, and I really think it would improve the game marginally. The older ways it was implemented during the beta were flawed and not given a proper chance.

As for "in whatever way you choose", you still would. Think DA vs Combuster vs Voltedge. You can choose to use DA if you want, or you can go with Voltedge. And these are fun because they kill time when you have to earn them- though it can be frustrating at times, its worth the satisfaction of earning them. The hipstery weapons would be attainable via the arcade in cool ways, and would still be earnable and usable as a path- they'd just require you to build the arcade and hunt down the levels to find them. They would fuel the exploration aspect that the game fails at, and give players a better goal than accessories and the likes.

Think Basil, but with 95% odds of finding the item in question at that particular point. If I want the iron slug, I might need to conquer a specific danger room, which I would be able to build as a world core or at least summon in some way or find by chance. If someone else summons something else like pepperbox into being, I might as well invest in it for when I'd want to later. I'd still be able to get my iron slug though, as you'd likely have a decent opportunity every 2 weeks for every item- that is, a gate that contains the particular part you need.

Proof of concept is gran faust- which is harder to attain and weaker than acheron, but is interesting in that it has curse status. People are mystified by curse status, and thus see some benefit in acquiring a gran faust. If it were balanced, it would be nicer, but it is currently not as big a problem as we make it out to be. The real issue is that its obviously worse, and is the ONLY other shadow sword in the game.

Vie, 12/13/2013 - 10:39
#19
Imagen de Thunder-The-Bright
Thunder-The-Bright
gods ain't gonna help you, son.

but there are no benefits on getting those weapons (it's actually the other way round), so nobody would get them; even if you are interested, they are difficult to attain so, you just say nah.

Vie, 12/13/2013 - 10:52
#20
Imagen de Fehzor
Fehzor
But dad, my god is SCIENCE!

Yes, this does assume that there is some inherent benefit to owning a shard bomb. I realize that they are out of balance and could use some serious tweaking- but look at it this way: What if these were new weapons being added to the game? Entirely new weapons, like if they were from the gunner update. Would you rather them be added as standard buy the recipe craft the item grind the grind, or with a hunt the weapon down, hunt the specific mats for the weapon down, go on an adventure to craft the weapon.

If the developers removed invincitinks or gave the shard bombs split normal+elemental damage, they would easily be made more than usable as niche weapons. They currently are better than nitronome in many areas- like when running away+strafing. I've had a good deal of luck fighting the first level of GitM with deadly crystal bomb.

Vie, 12/13/2013 - 10:58
#21
Imagen de Thunder-The-Bright
Thunder-The-Bright
with a hunt the weapon down,

with a hunt the weapon down, hunt the specific mats for the weapon down, go on an adventure to craft the weapon.

this still sounds like grinding, cause you will do levels over and over again to find materials and recipies and stuff.
new weapons ok, but you said iron slug and shard bombs; those are underused weapons because, well, they are not easy to use and on some level of UPness.

Vie, 12/13/2013 - 11:20
#22
Imagen de Fehzor
Fehzor

It would be grinding to some extent, but it would be different grinding than the last thing you earned. Right now, there are a few basic levels that are "best"-

Royal Jelly Palace/Roarmulus = 4* crafting orbs
Firestorm Citadel = 5* crafting orbs; crowns

Would you rather we took all of the reward weapons/armors from bosses and made them into standard Hall of Heroes weapons too?

With this, you would be required to go on specific levels to find specific items. This is the way materials are implemented, but without the "buy it; move on", it would actually require you to seek something out.

Vie, 12/13/2013 - 17:22
#23
Imagen de Waffleconecake
Waffleconecake
How do I what do? /watch?v=MNu2zmHnl8I

I'm just going to cut any areas I have... thoughts on.

They would be "harder to find", yes, but that would only add to them as weapons- is the divine avenger that much harder to get than a brandish? Discounting UVs, absolutely not.
But it would be harder to find. Way harder. This is like if Basil hid himself in the levels instead of always being at terminals.

*Your idea of how the players would go with this system*
Cut for saving space.
This has a major flaw. Why would a player start wasting money, time, and/or effort to find a weak, impracticable bomb OTHER then to show off? The deadly shard bomb is not that great due to how nerfed the shard bombs are. For the reason to show off is the same reason to have weapon reskins.

But lets change it to something less... underpowered. Lets say it was the cutter instead. The cutter is a risky weapon that isn't very rewarding in DPS compared to any of the weapons you listed as "basic". Why should I bother trying to get it when the hunt for it is more grueling then the boss recipe hunts? To show off? That is the kind of reason I'd only settle for in a reskin.

Vie, 12/13/2013 - 17:50
#24
Imagen de Warp-Master
Warp-Master
@Waffleconecake

Yeah, Fehzor seems to be assuming that his ideas would be implemented in concert with balance patches to make weapons not related to Brandish, Pulsar, or Strike Needle viable. Fat chance.

Sáb, 12/14/2013 - 08:44
#25
Imagen de Waffleconecake
Waffleconecake
How do I what do? /watch?v=ludwQ5LM2xg

@everyone and mainly warp-master
Yeah, until the weapons in the game become balanced this change would only ruin the number of people using said "under used" weapons instead of improving it. Why would someone who just wants to kill things super fast, aka most players, bother with trying to get a cutter or winmillion when the brandish line has a sword that out DPSs a piercing sword in killing wolvers (talking about archone compared to final flourish).
But balance will never happen.

Mar, 12/17/2013 - 12:34
#26
Imagen de Fehzor
Fehzor

This doesn't necessarily assume balancing patches will happen- it assumes that the developers do care about their weapons, and that they were all designed to be situationally best at some point in the game. Whether this is accurate is entirely unrelated to this thread- that some weapons are more niche than others is obvious to me- leviathan blade is worse than cold iron vanquisher when fighting undead.

The logical way to approach crafting gear is as follows:
0. Decide on main weapon to make into first 5* gear
1. Craft only up to that point, and expand very slowly into other gear areas
2. Upon finishing the first set of 5* gear, expand into other useful areas
3. Craft random hipstery weapons

I think that we should facilitate this-- no one should have to start off relying mainly on the deadly shard bomb (normal shards) line of weapon. This would prevent them from shooting themselves in the foot. My first 4* sword was the vile striker; when I got my first brandish a year later I was shocked by how easy it made playing the game.... but I am aware that dread venom striker is good in conjunction with the new sprite abilities, and in certain situations on certain loadouts.... but not as a first item.

You already have to work to earn stuff, but its boring and painful, having to hunt down the same orbs... you see people grinding for them over and over on the same 3 levels over and over.

The new trinket is worthless, but people are earning it anyway- this is to prove that they did it and bested the content. Why shouldn't winmillion be like that too? Why shouldn't these things be more interesting to earn? Would you agree to have everyone earn their brandishes this way? Despite new players needing those to advance, just so that they'll use the less used weapons?

Dom, 01/26/2014 - 13:03
#27
Imagen de Atlas-Snowcap
Atlas-Snowcap
Yes yes yes.

Even more yes to the level editor.

If OOO could create something that works like TF2 & CS:GO's workshops, content would be far more frequent. OOO can look through the highest rated levels/costumes/weapons and include a bunch of them in community patches. The new level layouts would make the Clockworks feel much more expansive and random, and with frequent community updates people would be motivated to explore the Arcade to search out the new levels.

Also, yes to the branching level paths. I want to feel like I'm exploring, and exploration is fuelled by open choice. The level variations also sound like a simple but effective way of spicing up Arcade runs.

It's easy to see you've put a lot of thought into writing these ideas, and I hope they get the recognition they deserve.

Mié, 02/05/2014 - 13:30
#28
Imagen de Fehzor
Fehzor

Bump

I would still like to see these things happen.

Vie, 02/07/2014 - 22:40
#29
Imagen de Doctorspacebar
Doctorspacebar
My foot's good luck!

I would still like to see these things happen, also.

Sáb, 02/08/2014 - 01:10
#30
Imagen de Akuryo
Akuryo
o....o)

+1

randomness is a must. itll make the game much more enjoyable

Dom, 02/09/2014 - 13:10
#31
Imagen de Fehzor
Fehzor

Thanks!

Dom, 02/09/2014 - 17:42
#32
Imagen de Mushy-Bucket
Mushy-Bucket
---

I still want that level editor.

Sitio elaborado con Drupal, un sistema de gestión de contenido de código abierto