Forums › English Language Forums › General › Suggestions

Search

Way to make the game fun for verterains again without making it unfair for new players

10 replies [Last post]
Tue, 01/14/2014 - 23:48
Autofire's picture
Autofire

Okay, I haven't been playing this game lately, I admit it. Why is that, you ask?

Two answers: Pokemon Y and Dungeon Defenders. Both hit me on Cristmas. (Yeah, this isn't important. Moving on.)

Anywho, after a break from the game, I think I know what's missing from this game: Randomness!

But, Autofire, Clockworks levels already randomly generate!

Not good enough. For the sake of this suggestion, assume we're talking just about Tier 3. So...What about Zombies? They do this:

Walk to player >> Attack wind up >> Attack fire >> Attack cooldown >> Wait >> Repeat

The "Attack wind up" is the key here. That wind up is the same all the time. It's predictable, just like Magikarp...okay, never mind. The problem is that a skilled or old player will latch on to the timing that Zombies use. It's not just that they are slow, it's that they are predictable. It would possibly help to make the delay random; that is to say, sometimes the attack would come out sooner and sometimes it would come out later.

On to the next issue. Let's say...Gun Puppies! So cute! ^^

Turn to player >> Fire at player >> Wait >> Repeat

"Fire at player" is the problem now. Why? Aren't they supposed to fire at you? Yes and no! The problem is that any (not frozen) player will probably continue to move to try to dodge the volley of bullets. The problem here is that the volley can be manipulated. A patient player can chose two spots, and could alternate standing on one and then the other. They would never be hit because the Gun Puppies look at where the player is now rather than where they're going to be. (For the sake of this suggestion, let's say that AI which will lead the player is too time consuming for OOO to put together.)

I say that Gun Puppies should be less accurate, meaning that their shots can sometimes leave their expected course. (You can see them do this in Tier 1, as a matter of fact.) If this were the case, while it might mean that sometimes they would miss when the player sits still, they might also be a bit less predictable.

I could keep going with a lot of things, but I just ask that things are made less predictable, maybe on Elite mode only or something. But as it is now, I bet that I could make a robot to play through Firestorm Citadel for me if I learned the exact patterns to manipulate the AI to be absolutely consistent. (But I'm too lazy to do that, especially now! I'm busy with other stuff!)

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 03:53
#1
Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle

I'd play Dungeon Defenders but the Jester class is so ridiculously broken.

"Hey guys, we made a class that can not only build every single tower, but also gets 50% off the Defense Unit cost and 33% faster attack speed on all of them. Hey that's not overpowered, at least it can't repair all buildings, minions and players on the map instantly. Oh wait, yes it can."

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 01:34
#2
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

I actually like how predictable things are in the clockworks with regard to enemies.

But level layouts could use some creativity and randomness.

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 03:49
#3
Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle

They would never be hit because the Gun Puppies look at where the player is now rather than where they're going to be

Luring is a key strategy in Danmakus. Sure, there's nothing wrong with having enemies fire randomly, but there's nothing wrong with perfect aim ones either. What we need is a mix of the two.

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 11:22
#4
Autofire's picture
Autofire
You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

@Hexzyle

"Jester class is so ridiculously broken."

Wait, it is? Um...I've been TRYING to use that class, but its Ogres are mulling me. I'm playing in Local Play, mind you. Also, 50% of the time I get equipment or nothing rather than decent defenses. Does increasing stats fix this?

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 12:23
#5
Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle

It does. Also when you find a staff with lots of extra projectiles, upgrade the crap out of it and you can do several thousand damage per second even at lower levels. (like level 20) Key is not to spam click, but hold for half a second to a second then release, that's like the apex of damage (plus you don't destroy your mouse in the process) although it does depend on the staff, practice on the dummies to find the golden point.

Here's a thread that shows everything that's horrendously unbalanced with the Jester, and how to abuse the crap out of it:
http://forums.dungeondefenders2.com/showthread.php?79685-An-in-depth-loo...

He mentions another pretty funny issue with an older version of the game here:
http://forums.dungeondefenders2.com/showthread.php?79685-An-in-depth-loo...

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 07:51
#6
Atlas-Snowcap's picture
Atlas-Snowcap
Predictability is good.

It makes you feel that you can read an enemy and counter accordingly, meaning that if they hit you it's your own fault. Making attacks have random timings would make enemies feel cheap.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 10:15
#7
Zeddy's picture
Zeddy
eww, Dungeon Defenders

The AI is fine for the most part, I think, although I'd like some tracking back for zombies and alpha wolvers.

You can step side to side to avoid gun puppies and can you step back and forth to avoid zombie swipes and then counterattack, but what about being under fire from multiple gun puppies across chasms while surrounded by zombies?

In such a situation, your unpredictable AI would make an unfair mess of things while the current AI is the only thing giving the player a fighting chance.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 16:16
#8
Gwaino's picture
Gwaino
Yeah about the gun puppy thing....

Yeah you think gun puppies are easy? Try getting 4 or 5 tier 3 Gun puppies with a rocket pup (tier 3 also) and/or a howlitzer or two (again tier3)in there and then see how easy it is. I DARE YOU!!! and to make it even tougher no guns or bombs and also no status conditions. Not so easy now it it?

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 16:55
#9
Usevnsevnsixfivfor's picture
Usevnsevnsixfivfor

Acheron-Combuster still takes out turrets with ease. Sure you get hit, but that's what the Polaris is for, not for LD.

Also, if I'm giving a "Hard Mode" I expect increased speed and AI instead of increased health, attack, defense, etc. Sonic Generations did a nice job with this with the Rival and Boss Battles.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 22:21
#10
Shamanalah's picture
Shamanalah
my 2 cents

I could keep going with a lot of things, but I just ask that things are made less predictable, maybe on Elite mode only or something. But as it is now, I bet that I could make a robot to play through Firestorm Citadel for me if I learned the exact patterns to manipulate the AI to be absolutely consistent. (But I'm too lazy to do that, especially now! I'm busy with other stuff!)

although I'd like some tracking back for zombies and alpha wolvers.

I prefer Zeddy suggestion (no offence), maybe have the Elite mode with old tracker?

Try getting 4 or 5 tier 3 Gun puppies with a rocket pup (tier 3 also) and/or a howlitzer or two (again tier3)in there and then see how easy it is. I DARE YOU!!!

So you mean T3 Danger Gun Arena? T3 Strata 5 or Strata 6? Cause there is a difference... DR + VT solves your answer though... or Shiv, whatever suits you... I went in a lot of them in Arcade runs in my full bomber loadout (DR, DBB, Nitronome, VT in dmg/ctr max). It's easier than you think when you have the right tool :D (the tools that suit you at least ^ ^)

Powered by Drupal, an open source content management system