no, those were regular lumbers, and the gate bugged for those levels to appear, theyre not leaked
and for the love of vog fix your spelling, its horrendous
Sleep Overhaul, New Enemy Line, Potential Sleep Weapons, New Pickup Item
lun, 02/29/2016 - 10:15
#6252
@jenova
lun, 02/29/2016 - 10:50
#6253
Restrode
lun, 02/29/2016 - 11:04
#6254
@Jenovasforumchar
1.) While it fits, and does sound clever, it breaks the naming scheme of all the other Mecha Knights by replacing the word "Knight." I still think it's neat, though.
2.) Sort of. When fired once, it pops off three tiny round pellets in one go. Sometimes they'll just deal damage. Sometimes they'll deal damage, but also stick to the target and "break" after a bit to release the sleep mist.
- 2.1) I wouldn't mind having it look similar to a dart gun of some type. But then it would make more sense to deal Piercing if given darts, and my general idea was to be able to use it anywhere semi-effectively. I wouldn't really mind it being Piercing, though.
3.) They beat you to the punch on that name for the sword. Other than that, I like the idea of having a giant hammer knock things senseless. It just seems to me that it would cause Stun instead of putting something to Sleep, though I like the description.
4.) Perhaps monsters should be given a "drowsy" state as well, yes; but consider that two of the statuses behave differently for monsters than they do for knights at the moment. As you mentioned, Freeze deals damage upon thawing for monsters, but not knights. Poison also behaves differently, as it both prevents healing and damages monsters when healed, but only prevents healing for knights with no damage. That said, I think a drowsy state would make sense for enemies. I think I'll put that in, thank you.
5.) I'm not entirely sure that fits for the enemy type, unless it was meant to be close to "Sandman" or some such? Which I could see, but perhaps not quite what I was looking for. Vohtarak is correct; when Starlight Cradle was playable during those few days as a bug, they spawned normal Lumbers.
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EDIT: ^ Yes to Restrode, that's beautiful. Thank you.
lun, 02/29/2016 - 20:52
#6255
ooo
I'm always for a sleep revamp. This one seems reasonable and sticks within the constraints of the game.
In the past I've suggested additional things for sleep, but yours looks pretty solid. One additional thing you could do to sleep to make it a bit scarier would be to have the game have a black overlay so that your vision is limited while "asleep". This effect would fade in slowly but dissipate quickly... However as it stands your sleep replacement is pretty solid.
On enemies
Would we get a gremlin knocker sleep variant? I don't see one up there. I would give them a name like "Gremlin Sedater". Unfortunately this means we need to create a new mineral combination, which unfortunately, are all currently used up. There is the possibility that Three Rings could implement Rock Salt as a rare mineral (and thus could be assumed to be a part of gate construction), and when taken to the lift grants all players 1 rock salt material. After doing this, Sleep could be implemented as a "rock salt + moonstone" combination, with rock salt being white. This opens the door for expansions beyond just sleep, and could be the birth of curse becoming a new theme along with potentially entirely new monster families.
And on the topic of curse, let it be known that the "Kat Nappers" are actually a thing already, referring to the "sleeper cell" of the kat tribe. I would assume those would be cursed kats, however, at the same time, the name is super fitting of sleep kats.
On weapons
The mist bomb is definitely a yes. With the new sleep revamp the bombs wouldn't be super terrible in lockdown either.
The gun is interesting. I would say every bullet has a chance of sticking, however the final bullet in a group would have a much higher chance of doing so. For example, first two shots might have a 20% chance of sticking, meanwhile the third bullet would have a 40% chance of sticking. How fast does the projectile move? If it doesn't move that fast this could even branch off the catalyzer.
Secondly, a syringe sword would be amazing to have as an addition. I made a post about medical gear a while back, and I said if sleep is brought back this would be a good weapon to have alongside it.
Basis of syringe sword, for everyone not wanting to look at that other post, is a piercing 4-hit-combo sword with fast hits and jabs. Would act like an inverse flourish more or less, and is very much single target. Charge attack would be a slight homing projectile where you shoot the needle from the gun and has a high status infliction rate.
On gear
Woo fun, with the addition of sleep as a common status theme we'd likely need to make some adjustments to our gears.
I would say all kat sets would get a +2 to sleep (black kat would remain neutral to it however), and chaos would receive -2 to sleep.
"Sweet Dreams" and "Teddy Bear Buckler" would have sleep added to their respective items, and have craftable reskins created in their wake.**
A new 5* bomber set with Bomb MSI: medium, piercing resistance, and sleep resistance would make a debut.*
A new sleep/stun split elemental/normal line would sprout. A shield would be included in this set.
A new sleep/curse split shadow/normal variant of the angelic line. Has vulnerability to poison, and grants universal CTR low.
*Yes, bomb MSI medium. You only get the MSI when holding bombs. Do you like moving fast?
**Sleep calibur would branch off calbur line at 4*. Teddy bear buckler reskin would branch off of skelly shield at 3*.
Probably a lot more could be done there, but these are just the things I can come up with right now.
mer, 03/02/2016 - 16:06
#6256
Ms. Proudmoore, I presume?
Hi Grudging-Claw!
Always wanted sleep to actually do something, but the more I think about it, the weirder it sounds.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this how you're proposing sleep works? i.e basically a better stun at the cost of healing whatever you caused to fall asleep?
because if so, I would have to say that moving the scrambled movement controls mechanic over to stun would help towards slightly nerfing the almost broken sleep you have presented you have presented us with (yes yes I know the healing. but from a pvp standpoint, have you seen the dmg some of those strikers are putting out? a little healing only goes a long way if no one's around to smack you in the drowsy face.
@Fangel
As for sleep armors, don't the slime armors have sleep on them? oh wait, they do, this is finally a validation point for them, so while new armors would be great, sleep armors would be filled out if we just lowered the normal and shadow defense by a smidgon and added something like +2 sleep.
EDIT: as for the rest of the stuff, love it all, especially all the monster names, as for the Lumber, I think S-lumber is fine, unless... maybe... Sleepy Hollow? XD
mer, 03/02/2016 - 16:16
#6257
Ehh
This is more like a status that buffs you while active while providing an even more heavy debuff. You heal and have extra defense, but that is to make up for being unable to attack and shield while asleep. The buffs are active until you decide to try to break out of them, in which case you give up your buffs and nerfs for a slightly less powerful nerf but you are no longer buffed.
People typically try to get all up-in-arms about sleep's healing abilities. However, if you're asleep, then likely something just hit you to put you to sleep. If you're asleep when you want to be asleep then that's something entirely different, but in today's fighting pattern, we'd rather be bashing the faces of things in rather than be asleep in the corner.
And as for your comments at my comment, yes, the royal jelly line has sleep resist on it. No, that is not enough sleep resist sets to be viable on its own, hence why I suggested sleep being thrown around a bit more, especially since it would be a "common" theme. In the past the only enemy capable of inflicting sleep dealt piercing damage. As this is suggesting it be a common status type, we would need multiple damage resistances.
ven, 06/17/2016 - 16:53
#6258
blep
Reviving this in lieu of making a new thread as it's still relevant and something I'd like to see happen, or at least something similar. One might say the thread was just sleeping.
A-ha. Ha.
. . .
This is why I have no friends.
Let the discussion continue.
ven, 06/17/2016 - 17:15
#6259
Should I Revive My Old Threads...?
You're not lonely, Grudging! <3
In a way, I am a bit glad you did not suggest Sleep for Swords. I would also like to see comparable damage values of the Sedator: does it deal more damage than a Blaster on a full clip?
And one issue with the Dream Duster is the prevention of Status Re-inflicting. If you have the Bomb explode and it instantly inflicting Sleep, once the Bomb has dissipated, they'll only get another two to three seconds of Status, unlike the Shivermist Buster with consistent Status infliction.
ven, 06/17/2016 - 17:39
#6260
blep
Fangel's idea would work the best on how a Sleep sword could work, plus give everyone that piercing heavy sword I keep hearing about. Other than that, what am I going to do with a sword to give something Sleep? Smash it in the face harder than it needs to be done for Stun? If so, count me in.
Sedator: I would say something along the lines of having slightly less damage per initial cluster of bullets vs. a Blaster bullet, but ending up dealing more damage if you end up landing the entire clip.
Dream Duster: Yes. Given what it would do to groups of enemies in the field, I'd say that's a decent tradeoff for being able to throws Z's at everything in sight. Pair it with Venom Veiler and you won't really need to keep reapplying it too often regardless. For use on Knights, I'd say that's relatively fair as well, unless we want to sleeplock everyone. Which would be hilarious.
It's definitely meant to be a support bomb, and once it goes off, your teammates get to wail on everything inside it. I wouldn't consider it one to use to constantly reapply the status to something, even though that's what mist bombs do best. It's an oddball, but that's more of a fault of how the status would go rather than the bomb itself. If you've some suggestions on how to counteract this, feel free.
ven, 06/17/2016 - 18:38
#6261
As a Solo Player
I would never think to engage in a party full of Knights due to the entire gamut of effectiveness. I try to play through Levels with only Bombs (a recent trend of mine; currently trying Shard Bombs) and I was thinking "Could this Bomb be a viable asset to a lone Bomber?"
The only thing I can see it being very effective is with use of fast and strong attacks, given the player(s) must counter the restoration in Health whilst canceling the Status to lengthen the duration of Sleep (because Mist Bombs re-inflict). Most, if not all Bombs, are slow to act, probably will only start hitting after the enemy regains a fair bit of Health.
Maybe it could work if we had a Detonation Time UV of some sort... Did I ever mention that? Hm...
For the Sedator, are you implying that whilst a cluster would deal less damage than a single Blaster shot, it would somewhat deal more damage than an entire clip?
9 x 10 does not equal 3 x 35; however it may be a scary thing to Mender Forcefields.
sam, 06/18/2016 - 07:50
#6262
Yep.
Does anyone else not like that they had the Slumber Prize Box promo without tying the weapon or shield to the actual status?
Bleh. Anyway, I like a lot of the ideas here. Thing is, I don't want to break my keyboard or blister my index finger; I think waking up should happen after three taps of the attack key at most. Otherwise, it will feel like a chore.
The Sedator, syringe, and Dream Duster weapon ideas are all nice. A heavy Sleep sword seems a little counter-intuitive, though, because if you're fighting alone, you'd pretty much have to switch weapons once they're Sleeping to keep from waking them up, and it's just a utility weapon at that point. Part of me wants a Sleep-themed Winmillion or Cutter, though. Think about it, just getting to tear your target to pieces while they can't move at all. But that would take a ton of balancing to keep it from being a force of unstoppable destruction; the last thing we want is an easily-accessible Mixmaster.
@Rhons: Using an Ash of Agni could keep hurting the monsters while they're Sleeping without waking them up. Or you could take a light Sword or Gun sidearm and just pick them off until they're all gone.
sam, 06/18/2016 - 09:37
#6263
@Jessecho
Remember that Sleep heals enemies. As long as they are not flinching, they'll continue restoring health, which is why light weaponry will be less effective against Sleeping enemies.
sam, 06/18/2016 - 18:24
#6264
blep
Math and I don't get along, however after thinking it over I would like to say each shot would deal less damage than a Blaster of the same star level, with the chance of inflicting Sleep making up for the lower damage output.
In regards to the enemy issue, would it make better balance sense to have it able to constantly reapply it to enemies, but not to Knights? That way even solo it becomes more useful as a support tool.
@Jessecho: Yes to the few taps to wake up. I say "rapidly pressing," but think of an Antigua's firing pattern for a full clip. I don't believe people will pound the key into submission, rather press it a few times in succession.
1.
Mecha Knight -> Mecha Night
2.
so the gun is actually Shooting 3 parallel bullets at once and that 'sticking' works like the 'curse mark' from a maskeraith (just with damage at the contact instead of the delayed Explosion)?
2.1
I suggest to give the gun the appearance of a dart-blower or dart-shooter with sleep darts.
3.
Sword Idea:
Name: Sweet Dreams
Sword Line: Troika
Appearance: Looks like a giant black 5t hammer with a Wood-Brown-coulored grip.
Description: If everything else fails to put a Knight to sleep, then this will garantuee sweet dreams.
4.
I like the idea, that you can walk around while beeing asleep and that you can also free yourselfe from it. So your idea is not just a frost 2.0 but a Status with a new mechanic. But Let me add this here: In this game there are almost all Status effects having the same effect on Monsters and Knights (well, only frost got changed and deals no damage when it naturally ends), so some exspecially active enemies should be able to get into drownsiness state, too.
This definitelly deservers a +1
5.
Due to the nature of Gorgos... Will sleep-devilities randomely transform into Gorgos? ;)
5.1
There dis just a new idea Pop into my mind: The Demotivated Devility:
This is a devility that is closely to turn into a Gorgo. In this state, it can turn Overtimers back to its normal form and it has a Chance to turn another devility into a Demotivated Devility when it turns into a Gorgo itselfe.
6.
A different Name for S-Lumber:
Swagman
But actually... doesn't this type of Lumber exist already? After all there are Lumbers in the that sleep Level that got leaked accidentally, but I can't say if they just stun or if they deal sleep, too.