Spiral Knights - New Battle Sprite Idea

New Battle Sprite Idea - Luck Themed

10 Réponses [Dernière contribution]

lun, 08/13/2018 - 09:43

#6251

Nicht-Steam-Action

Good idea!

I'm absolutely in for more battle sprite content, no matter what it is.
Also, I like this idea because "increasing drop chance" is a mechanic that only exists with Seraphynx but it's only dedicated to hearts and shield buffs.
Getting more materials may be in favor of material vendors and >>>>> for getting a damn book <<<<<. (that's probably a hidden reason >:D)

The idea of making both moonstone and valestone put to use is also really great!
I think 1,000 GSC sounds a lot for a second, but usually battle sprites cost 2,100 Energy... so one GSC equals 200 Crowns which makes the price add up to 200,000 Crowns.
That means it's more or less the same price, which also accompanies the idea to limit the sold amount of GSC per casino.
Great thinking at this. ^^

The only thing I'm worried about is setting the luck-up ability as the very first one.
The first ability always has the least cooldown (I think) and it's available from the very beginning.
So either it can only affect one enemy OR the duration of luck-up is short OR the luck-up increase is not that great (to nerf it).
IMO the luck-up ability is the core-mechanic that players would be interested in, so won't it be better to put it as the 2nd or 3rd one? :o

Players would obviously get it to max level for the Utimate which increases luck-up even more, but even so, I think it might be better to not put it as the very first ability.

What do you think? :D

lun, 08/13/2018 - 12:50

#6252

Lyrose

I like this idea, as I'm a

I like this idea, as I'm a big fan of battle sprites and it gives some use to valestone and moonstone which i have hoarded in case this would possibly happen.

The difficulty of getting it it's also very pleasing to me, since it's a bit "overpowered" but nothing a few tweaks couldnt solve, and it could also help boost up the crowns you earn a bit, this is suitable for PvE grinders. But since it has a very slim chance to be found in the Casino Wheels and to only being able to buy 10 coins each time from Smithy would probably make the coin market rise up a bit, i don't know, it would depend on the demand.
It could also affect your chance of getting a mirrored lockbox by increasing it.

And the crafting fee could also be in crowns besides of the coins. I think people would exploit noobies to buy coins cheap and craft as many of these as they can to resell, if it was temporary event like only being avaiblable with the casino, when the casino ends, people could buff up the prices as much as they wanted, so a reasonable fee to keep this from happening would be acceptable.

It's not bad to daydream afterall

lun, 08/13/2018 - 13:44

#6253

Nitronicx

Overpowered?

How is this overpowered? To me it doesn't look very useful, only boosts material and power up orb drops. I can imagine those remedy pulses being powerful, but other than that, that's it.

I don't see the whole image probably. But I admit that I didn't think much about this.

lun, 08/13/2018 - 14:07

#6254

Tapproot

The first thing I thought about when I read about the first ability was Black Kats and the Book of Dark Rituals drop. Other than that I don't see anything particularly overpowered about this, and it's really only overpowered in a sense that it is disproportionately more useful than any other sprite for farming rarities/rare drops. One thing I don't really like is that I can see people spending 3-5min in the final floor of DaN to use the 1st ability on all/most of the boxes. I would rather rads drop chance just be increased and not have the floor be cheesed.

lun, 08/13/2018 - 15:33

#6255

Zero-Chill

meow

@Nitronix

I can imagine those remedy pulses being powerful...

People would just use them for themselves rather than teammates, basically an extra remedy capsule. Know when was the last time I ran with a sera used and he let me into his protective personal bubble to pass through traps? That was several months ago, maybe it's just that the people I play with are selfish but I wanna see these buffs being stronger on your allies rather than on you or just allowing your allies to actually benefit from them, for example the range could be more so you can support more people other than just yourself, it should be as large as the guardian shield. I suggest buffing sera's shield to that much range as well and maybe add some more health to it so it can actually protect from more than one hit.

Ahm, back to the remedy ability, I think it should last a fair bit rather than just a few pulses then disappear so it can actually be useful to teammates, otherwise, the user would just use it on only themselves since they should save it for when they need it the most. But wait isn't this status healing skill along with the buffing orb drops make this new sprite a support one and take sera's place. After reading through this again, I can find it being a better support pet especially because sera's shield is almost useless and both heart drop skill ultimates are useless (I tested the defense orbs, they offer no damage reduction whatsoever. Or maybe they only buff your existing damage, I don't know for sure because I only texted them on spikes while wearing black kat set. Can it for example make me take less damage from a zombie swipe which is normal/shadow damage?). I can also see the first skill as kind of overpowered and useless at the same time as you have a greater chance at getting drops from rare monsters which include book of dark rituals (which I believe was the whole motivation for the idea of this sprite BTW) but at the same time it wouldn't be worthwhile to use on any non-rare monsters so this skill is very situational.

Don't get me wrong I would love to see a new sprite in this game but this one seems lackluster yet overpacked, it's kinda confusing. The remedy ability should've been an alt to sera's shield instead of the shield regeneration one IMO, since NOBODY shields while having sera's shield, it's just useless.

While we're at it lemme remind you that maskraith's haunting haze ghosts still do <10 damage each in T3. And the one and only practical use for them that I found so far is using them to indicate the position of gremlin stalker. They should get their damage buffed to at least a 50. They can sometimes be useful when toure facing a crowd of minis as the ghosts' knockback keeps them away from you and little damage they do can interrupt some very soft monsters like devilites or greavers.

lun, 08/13/2018 - 23:07

#6256

Fangel

clearing stuff up

I've got replies for all y'all - don't worry, I put thought into this suggestion before throwing it to the wind 😉

@Nicht-Steam-Action
The primary ability would have a limited time effect, yes. Probably something like 10-15 seconds or so before wearing off (I imagined the ability taking 20 seconds to recharge at base, making it the longest cooldown primary attack for all battle sprites)

Battle sprites follow a basic formula, which is "skill 1: specialized attack", "skill 2: support utility", "skill 3: special and thematic ability". The drop rate increase is a huge draw for this sprite, so I feel its first attack including this ability would make it feel like you're hunting for treasure more-so than it being a later tier skill.

I imagined the projectile it fires to be around the size of an antigua bullet, making it a very targeted attack that will likely only affect a single enemy at a time.

@Lyrose
This sprite would not boost crown gains, as I feel crowns and heat should not be something that a sprite should meddle with. The only way to get additional crowns through this sprite is via vendoring or selling materials.

A battle sprite being accessible at limited but frequent intervals (the casino is fairly regular, and turns it into a special event instead of "degenerate gambler farming") would be a nice way to make it feel better to acquire. You won't be waiting 8 months for it to return, you can work on getting the slime coins for it even when the event is not around, and the slime coins would get a legitimate market, meaning listing them on the auction house for 200 crowns every so often on featured could show up. Because the sprite itself is limited more in the coins than it is in the waiting period, I think that it is completely fair for people to sell them in the off season for more if they worked to get it anyways.

@Tapproot
Using the first ability on the end of DaN would not increase rarity drops - this is similar to the heat and crown statements from earlier. I don't want to encourage players sitting around and breaking every box with the sprite's first ability, so that's why I imagine it having a lengthy cooldown and only affect things that players aren't as worried about, or don't expect in the first place (equipment drops).

This sprite would make Mt. Krampus have a higher likelihood of dropping a solstice ring, however, since that is an equipment drop, so I can see it being highly sought after for Winterfest times.

@Zero-Chill
The pulses encourage a team player to stick near their team, but doesn't require it. The default skill will last around 5 seconds or so, maybe longer if you can upgrade the skill to get additional pulses per level. The dangerous part of the sprite is that the statuses it clears are randomized unless you get the ultimate that clears all of them, but only pulses once, so you're gambling to be cured but it does give you and your teammates times to walk towards each other to benefit.

The Treasure Hunt skill would be useful for standard players who are having trouble finding a certain material. They take the sprite into a level (or join a party that has someone running the sprite) and then attack the target that's been hit by the first ability.

[as a side note, i use the seraphynx's seraphic aura to recover my shield faster after it breaks, but i'd like if it did that without waiting for the regen period]

@All
Yes, books of dark rituals was one thought behind this sprite. However, finding a book would simply be a "size effect" of the sprite. All it would do would ensure a material drop, but it doesn't increase the rates of a book of dark rituals from dropping since it is not an accessory or gear piece. This *would* however increase the chances of obtaining a darkfang shield from gremlin thwackers.

mar, 08/14/2018 - 02:14

#6257

Zero-Chill

meow

Wait, wut? Endgame players still actually raise their shield for something other than switching? Well, that's new to me. Ahm, back to the topic, if it's a luck based sprite then the remedy pulses shouldn't have an ultimate that can cure all statuses, also being a single pulse that'll largely discourage using it on a teammate. I suggest that the pulse pulses as many times as the number of statuses out there and to only cure one without choosing any ults. For the alts, I think one should be curing 2 statuses per pulse and lasts for the same period with the same number of pulses at the rate of 1 pulse per sec. And the other ult should provide you and anyone inside your ring to have increases luck, basically like drinking a luck potion but on monsters instead of the casino where you'll get increased chances for buffing orbs to drop (100% increased chance seems nice since they don't drop that often and at the same time it won't be raining to be overpowered).

The first skill after the changes you said now look almost completely useless outside of using it on non-rare monsters or a box that isn't that one single box at the end of grinchlin assault. I propose a change, make it the second ability and make it like casting a curse over a small area where at max range it would be as large as sera's shield after maxing it's area. It should last around 10 secs at max when maxed out and would make chances of getting something to drop that isn't crowns, heat, pickups or buffing orbs increased by 50% when maxed out. Now the ultimates, one that increases the effectiveness by 25% and a the other increases the duration by 50%. This skill shouldn't apply to boxes.

The first skill should be something unique and completely by chance where you shouldn't always get what you want but it should always debuff the enemy. Fire a projectile that inflicts a random status and does light damage of a random damage type. One ultimate would be doubling the projectile's size and the other can be that the projectile will have double chance of applying a damage type that the target is weak against and half chance to apply a damage type the target is strong against. If course it'd be also completely random. The way it works that it does nothing until it touches an enemy and applies the debuff to that enemy, if it hits.more than one enemy then each enemy will be inflicted on randomly which means they can have the same or different statuses from the same projectile the same applies for damage type. If that's too complicated then just make the projectile have a random damage type and status every time it gets fired from the beginning and have the other ultimate be that the projectile always does normal damage. The projectile would be as large as a valiance bullet and with increased size it would be double the size.

mar, 08/14/2018 - 14:54

#6258

Fangel

somewhat?

The sprite isn't supposed to be the "ultimate" battle sprite, just another line up in tools for the player to use. The goal of this battle sprite isn't to be better than the others, but simply provide the player with more tools and utilities for their clockworks adventures.

The thing about the treasure hunt ability is that it would also work on slooms, meaning finding those zee cores can be made a bit easier. This could also be a small shift in direction towards having more unique enemies that drop unique materials for items, which I welcome from a game design standpoint.

One thing I didn't mention initially was that I intended this battle sprite to not be able to use any harness outside of the normal harness, meaning the only way for it to deal specialized damage is through its primary attack being RNG'd to other damage types.

The cure status ability I'm pretty content with. I understand your concern but you are removing uncertainty from your sprite's curing ability with the hope that you don't get re-status'd afterwards. It gives players an option for whatever playstyle they think will fit them more, and I think having that choice is important.

One potential idea is that the projectile is a slime ball, and once the enemy that is marked by it is killed, it drops to the ground, and can re-attach to any enemy that walks on top of it, but it retains the same expiration time period. This may be fun because it makes players prioritize certain enemies over others.

I thought about the first skill applying a random debuff to enemies, but I felt like that takes the magic from the 3rd skill's debuff ult so I didn't want to steal its thunder.

mer, 08/15/2018 - 02:14

#6259

Zero-Chill

meow

I think we can balance it out with something that hasn't been touched upon by the game before which is buffing the monsters. Each skill except the first one will apply a buff to the monsters in range. For example the second ability would cause all the monsters that has the treasure mark a chance to gain attack, defense or movement speed increase during the duration of the mark. The last skill can make all the monsters in range to become immune to all minor statuses. The first one is pretty balanced IMO as if well aimed can still not hit a lot of targets and the damage would be little.

I still personally think that your take on this sprite is against what it's supposed to be as the first skill just targets one monster and has a big cooldown, which makes it absolutely useless outside of rare monsters. The other skills are fine except for the Ult 2 for the healing ring. I think that we shouldn't approach material drops at all since if that was to be implemented it would be one of two things, either overpowered and causing you to get more money even by selling mats that still counts as having crowns drop or it would be very limiting causing it to be only used on rare monsters. On a luck based sprite you could just replace it with something else. Just cause it's luck themed doesnt mean it gotta have an ability to alter drops.

Edit: After reading the slime ball suggestion, I just realized that it can be more useful like this maybe the slime glob will keep having it's cooldown reduced per enemy that picks it up? Or will it have unlimited times to be able to attack to enemies? Which can make skilled players able go effectively keep the buff active at all times in an arena which actually requires a bit of skill to control monster behaviour to make them run into it. Will the skill be useable while still active? Like, can you activate it while the first one hasn't expired yet? That would be cool.

But after you said that I feel like this skill shouldn't have damage at all.

mer, 08/22/2018 - 14:46

#6260

Fangel

not quite

The primary slime ball attack will have the same expiration time, regardless of enemy it attaches or re-attaches to. It will usually expire right when the player can use their primary ability again (with max cooldown times), so you can constantly keep enemies marked with it so long as you're okay with not having access to your panic button (remedy) or buffing party members through buff orb drops.

Battle sprites often enough do not reward the player enough to constantly use them, and a sprite like this would heavily reward players who are constantly using it.

The damage could be on the initial hit, or it could be a "damage over time" ability, where the longer it sticks to enemies the more it damages them. Heck, now that I say that, having it basically be a slime-looking leech sounds pretty unique and interesting!

People are always calling for ways to get more crowns, to get more heat, to get more rarities, etc. However, I've always felt touching those is not a good idea. Materials are needed in a much less obvious form - while you need them for crafting, you also need them for sprite food. Players often do not know that the material market actually exists, however even with an increase in material drops it shouldn't affect that market too bad, and getting something like an additional 8 light shards, 9 dark shards, 5 ecto drops, a grave soil, and 2 soul sand extra per undead level you do isn't going to make or break the economy. If the sprite did anything else, it would become mandatory, and I do not want that to be part of the sprite.

I feel like buffing enemies wouldn't really do much. While it is an unexplored part of the game (outside of alpha wolvers or trojans), I feel like monster buffs should be kept to enemies, and player buffs should stick to players (monster drops still are in the "player" category).

Do keep in mind that just because something has a "positive" effect, that it doesn't need to have a counteractive "negative" effect. The limited damage and affected area of the primary attack is more than enough to make up for its ability.

Recherche

New Battle Sprite Idea - Luck Themed