Spiral Knights - Snarbolax Cap\Coat got 4* resistance! [FRUSTRATION!]

Snarbolax Cap\Coat got 4* resistance! [FRUSTRATION!]

10 Réponses [Dernière contribution]

dim, 02/26/2012 - 07:12

Rustork

Discussion here will be about Snarbolax Armor. To be precise - it's Resistance.

Links:
Snarbolax Cap:
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Snarbolax_Cap
Snarbolax Coat:
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Snarbolax_Coat

So, back to topic. You are probably saw knights in that armor and know which resistance it's have, but i will remind you:

Poison
Freeze

But then you compare it with others armors (or wear another armor's part, like Vog Cub or Skolver or any other 5* armor) you may notice, snarbolax resistance is less. How much less? Less on 1 step. As you know, armor have got 4 levels of resistance. Armor may already got it (like Vog Cub's Fire Maximum!) or get it as UV. If UV is also maximum - resistance will be teh same.

Levels:

Low
Medium
High
Maximum!

Here is some screenshots:

My Vog Cub (STUN: Maximum!):
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/7223/vogcubcapstunmaximum.png
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7800/vogcubcoatstunmaximum.png
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/7730/vogcubgearsummary.png

Cap, Coat and Summary Stun is the same as Fire.

Now my Snarbolax Coat with Vog Cub Cap:
http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/1987/snarbolaxwithvog.png

You may see, Poison and Freeze resistance is less, then Fire and Stun. Why 1 step? 2* armor got low resistance, then after upgrade to 3* armor it will have medium resistance, 4* armor - High and 5* - Maximum!

Now, look on Ash Tail Armor on Wiki:

Ash Tail Cap:
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Ash_Tail_Cap
Ash Tail Coat:
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Ash_Tail_Coat

It's Freeze resistance got High level, same as Snarbolax!
Someone forgot to level up Snarbolax gear!!

dim, 02/26/2012 - 08:49

Extribble

It's the trade-off you get

It's the trade-off you get for having two resistances versus one. Simple as that.

dim, 02/26/2012 - 09:46

Trying

There's something called

There's something called game balance

dim, 02/26/2012 - 21:56

Rustork

People, i am really sorry...

People, i am really sorry... there is NO "trade-off", there is no "something called game balance", probably you are incompetent. And i have got some evidence to support my words. I will start from bottom to the top from all 5*armor in SK (which got 2 or more Resistance).

1. Volcanic Plate Mail
STUN: Maximum!
FIRE: Maximum!
SLEEP: Maximum! (Penalty)

2. Valkyrie Mail
POISON: Maximum!
FIRE: Maximum! (Penalty)
CURSE: Maximum!

3. Shadowsun Slicker
POISON: Maximum! (Penalty)
CURSE: Maximum! (Penalty)

4. Royal Jelly Mail
STUN: Maximum!
SLEEP: Maximum!

5. Radiant Silvermail
POISON: Maximum!
CURSE: Maximum!

6. Ironmight Plate Mail
STUN: Maximum!
SLEEP: Maximum! (Penalty)

7. Ice Queen Mail
STUN: Maximum!
FREEZE: Maximum!

8. Heavenly Iron Armor
SHOCK: Maximum! (Penalty)
CURSE: Maximum!

9. Grey Feather Mantle
STUN: Maximum! (Penalty)
FIRE: Maximum!
SHOCK: Maximum!

10. Dread Skelly Suit
POISON: Maximum!
FIRE: Maximum! (Penalty)
FREEZE: Maximum!

11. Divine Mantle
FIRE: Maximum!
SHOCK: Maximum!
CURSE: Maximum!

12. Armor of the Fallen
POISON: Maximum!
FIRE: Maximum!
CURSE: Maximum! (Penalty)

13. Ancient Plate Mail
STUN: Maximum!
SLEEP: Maximum! (Penalty)

Same Armors, but 4* (to see evolution):

1. Heavy Plate Mail
STUN: High
SLEEP: High (Penalty)

2. Seraphic Mail
POISON: High
FIRE: High (Penalty)
CURSE: High

3. Sunset Duster
CLEAR AT ALL

4. Rock Jelly Mail
STUN: High
SLEEP: High

5. Silvermail
POISON: High
CURSE: High

6. Heavy Plate Mail
STUN: High
SLEEP: High (Penalty)

7. Rock Jelly Mail
STUN: High
SLEEP: High

8. Seraphic Mail
POISON: High
FIRE: High (Penalty)
CURSE: High

9. Miracle Cloak
STUN: High (Penalty)
FIRE: High
SHOCK: High

10. Sinister Skelly Suit
POISON: High
FIRE: High (Penalty)
FREEZE: High

11. Miracle Cloak
STUN: High (Penalty)
FIRE: High
SHOCK: High

12. Seraphic Mail
POISON: High
FIRE: High (Penalty)
CURSE: High

13. No 4* Armor, only 5*.

dim, 02/26/2012 - 22:47

Wolfkit

@Rustork

First off, presenting data to prove a point is a very good thing. However, even an explanation with no data is more useful than data with no explanation. You gave us a nice wall of data, what relationships within it do you want us to look at?
Secondly, your data is incomplete. You have neglected to consider other factors such as damage protection or miscellaneous bonuses/penalties. For instance, Ancient Plate has a movement speed decrease and attack speed decrease, but counters that with more normal protection than will fit in the gauge.

And as you are correct that not all sets are well balanced, we don't even have to bother looking at other sets. Just looking at the other two wolver 5*s is enough.
So, Skolver, Vog Cub and Snarbolax can be assumed to have equivalent amounts of piercing, elemental, and shadow protection respectively and the same amount of normal protection.
Skolver and Snarbolax both have sword damage increase med, which can be assumed to be the same as Vog Cub's sword attack speed increase med.
Now that we've got that all out of the way, let's look at statuses. By your measurements Skolver has freeze max and Vog has fire max, so that's equal. Now Snarbolax only has freeze high and poison high. Oh my gosh, it doesn't have maximum!
Except that it has two status resists.
Ashtail has freeze high, and Skolver gained a level to have freeze max.
Snarbolax however, kept freeze high and gained poison high.

Continuing to use your math, Vog Cub and Skolver both have 4 levels of one status, while Snarbolax has a total of 6 levels from two statuses, coming out ahead. What you are requesting is for Snarbolax to have 8 combined levels of status resist... compared to only 4 levels in equivalent armor.

And no, Snarbolax is not meant to be more powerful just because it is boss armor.

lun, 02/27/2012 - 00:25

Rustork

Wolfkit >>>You gave us a nice

Wolfkit
>>>You gave us a nice wall of data, what relationships within it do you want us to look at?

I compared 4* armors with it's 5* version. That show us how system work and resistance is upgradeing (from High => "Maximum!").

>>>Secondly, your data is incomplete. You have neglected to consider other factors such as damage protection or miscellaneous bonuses/penalties. For instance, Ancient Plate has a movement speed decrease and attack speed decrease, but counters that with more normal protection than will fit in the gauge.

At the start i wrote: "Discussion here will be about Snarbolax Armor. To be precise - it's Resistance.". Not about "damage protection" OR "miscellaneous bonuses/penalties".

>>>Continuing to use your math, Vog Cub and Skolver both have 4 levels of one status, while Snarbolax has a total of 6 levels from two statuses, coming out ahead.

It's not much if we look on Divine Veli with 12 and total 24!

>>>What you are requesting is for Snarbolax to have 8 combined levels of status resist... compared to only 4 levels in equivalent armor.

Equivalent are (because they have shadow defence and normal defence):

1. Valkyrie (8, total 16)
POISON: Maximum!
FIRE: Maximum (Penalty)
CURSE: Maximum!

2. Heavenly Iron (4, total 8)
SHOCK: Maximum! (Penalty)
CURSE: Maximum!

3. Dread Skelly (8, total 16)
POISON: Maximum!
FIRE: Maximum! (Penalty)
FREEZE (Maximum!)

4. Deadshot (4, total 8)
CURSE: Maximum!

5. Fallen (8, total 16)
POISON: Maximum!
FIRE: Maximum!
CURSE: Maximum! (Penalty)

Same story, if they have any resistance - it's "Maximum!" even if it's penalty.

lun, 02/27/2012 - 00:48

Wolfkit

My point about other stats

My point about other stats such as, for instance, sword damage bonus: med is applicable here. Wolver-line equipment has smaller defensive stats to balance an offensive bonus.

And by "equivalent armor" I was referencing Vog and Skolver, not other shadow armors. I had multiple paragraphs comparing the wolver 5*s and pointing out how they all had equal stats other than Snarb having two high status resists rather than one max status resist... I figured that it would be fairly obvious what I meant by equivalent armor.

An analogy would be calling Argent Peacemaker and Sentenza equivalent, rather than calling Argent Peacemaker and Polaris equivalent.

lun, 02/27/2012 - 10:22

Nordlead

Just looking at resistances,

Just looking at resistances, and ignoring other defense and bonuses does not let you see the full picture. Any argument to only look at one aspect of an armor and prove that it is bugged will fall on deaf ears. Yea, Snarbolax doesn't have Max! status resists, but it does have 2, and it has a med sword damage bonus.

Please show me an armor/helm that has split normal/whatever, 2 Max! resistances, no resistance penalties, and a damage bonus med.

The only things that comes close are Radiant Silvermail (pierce/elemental + undead medium) and Divine Viel (elemental/Shadow + Fiend medium and 3 max! resistances). But both of those lack normal defense and don't have a weapon damage bonus, so in my mind they aren't nearly as universal as Snarbolax. Normal defense is pretty critical, and sword bonus is significantly better unless you either don't use swords, or actually use a wide range of weapons on that monster type.

Even so, ignoring all the other arguments for/against, just because every other 5* armor has max resistance, doesn't mean that one can't break the trend and that this is a "bug". When I consider the big picture, my conclusion is that it is not a bug.

lun, 02/27/2012 - 11:49

Juances

@Rustork
We could flip this argument saying the other armor are too strong and this one is the only with proper resistances.

Nothing can prove that sentence is wrong.

So how are you so sure who is right? The evidence goes both ways.

lun, 02/27/2012 - 20:12

Round-Shinigami

I am unsure that lower

I am unsure that lower resistances on snarbolax set is a bug, but they do seem out of place compared to the rest of 5* armors.

mar, 02/28/2012 - 11:23

#10

Rustork

to Nordlead >>>Please show me

to Nordlead
>>>Please show me an armor/helm that has split normal/whatever, 2 Max! resistances, no resistance penalties, and a damage bonus med.

That should be Snarbolax Armor. =)

>>>Even so, ignoring all the other arguments for/against, just because every other 5* armor has max resistance, doesn't mean that one can't break the trend and that this is a "bug". When I consider the big picture, my conclusion is that it is not a bug.

O.K., lets try another way.

v1. Add Penalty to monster. Like Fiend (low), but do both resistances "Maximum!"
v2. Add penalty to status. Fire\Curse (Maximum!), but still do both resistances "Maximum!"
v3. Cut damn Freeze and make Poison "Maximum!", b'coz Vog Cub don't have Freeze too.

to Juances

Too idiotic, really. Nothing personal. If only this armor is right, and all other is wrong - developers have got 99% of waste. Can you belive it that? I am not.

The evidence is simple - 98% have got maximum resistance (except Almirial, which is got medium. Somehow. And Snarbolax.). That's enought for me to suspect - something is wrong.

And do not forget about very important thing, Developers fixed Snarbolax before and did it two times (added support of Auras).

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Snarbolax Cap\Coat got 4* resistance! [FRUSTRATION!]