If you want a shield with decent defenses, the ASI increase should be nerfed to medium or even low.
Swiftstrike Buckler 5* Version
sam, 03/24/2012 - 09:43
#6252
~
sam, 03/24/2012 - 12:56
#6253
I say!
If there is any 5* version, it should have pitifully low stats, and give Ultra ASI... >:3 it would cost alot to make it.... XD
And i would totally use it...ALL the time.
~Tsu
sam, 03/24/2012 - 14:20
#6254
well I would be fine if it
well I would be fine if it wouldn't break in a single hit when hit by the strongest enemy in tier 3.
sam, 03/24/2012 - 14:33
#6255
Vana?
I'd love a shield that
Vana?
I'd love a shield that can tank a vana mace, and still give asi high.
sam, 03/24/2012 - 16:15
#6256
I don't have much experience
I don't have much experience with vana, would that also break a regular shield? And does it hit multiple times or just one big damage hit? Lets just say regular monsters, and leave out bosses. I think in tier 2 the strongest single damage not from a boss is being hit by a lumber (swiftstrike buckler breaking but not letting dmg go though), so I think that would make the shield still useful, but not overpowered.
2. Alternate idea:
Or we could just compare the defender line, how much additional normal damage resistance and health does the aegis have compared to the 3* star defender? Since swiftstrike buckler is balanced in tier 2, I'd raise the shield strengh by a similiar percentual amount. So if it was 50 % as a example, then the 5* version of the swiftstrike buckler would also have 50 % more resistance and health than the 3* version.
sam, 03/24/2012 - 18:49
#6257
@Kuratiustwo
A direct hit from vana's huge mace will destroy nearly any shield in one hit, with the exception of a few. I think the Omega shell can take one, and the Volcanic Plate shield upon taking a direct hit will become yellow.
sam, 03/24/2012 - 18:53
#6258
I'm doubtful omega can take
I'm doubtful omega can take one, since the mace does both fire and stun status.
4* owlite and up
Crest of Almire
Vps
sam, 03/24/2012 - 23:41
#6259
Anyway,
So long as the 5* Swiftstrike doesn't have anything over ASI VH, and has considerably less defence than the Aegis (the standard issue shield, so to speak), I don't see any major issues with this.
sam, 03/24/2012 - 23:54
#6260
5* SSB
This = maybe two bars better than the original? with potential to become 3 bars? That sound about right?
Nonetheless the change in defensive power will be extremely weak, and honestly, skill with an SSB will do you better than spending a ton of CE on making the 5*. Simply because we don't need more complaints about noobish behavior. That and skill gets you more respect than gear. Trust me on this.
dim, 03/25/2012 - 00:49
#6261
@Skold-The-Drac I don't think
@Skold-The-Drac I don't think it will be that weak, that's already much stronger than the 3* version in comparison, so yeah. The change will also affect shield health, though we probably need to do some testing to make it balanced.
So, does everyone agree with the change? Does anyone have an argument against the idea? If not we'll just wait till Nick looks into this thread.
dim, 03/25/2012 - 00:45
#6262
AAahahaha!
You know, I don't really want a shield that can take a hit... what I want is a boost for using a piddly shield...
~Tsu
dim, 03/25/2012 - 01:08
#6263
@Tsubasa-No-Me that's a good
@Tsubasa-No-Me that's a good idea for an alternate line. (two 5* bucklers: one with extremely high or max asi but no blocking at all and a shield that can take some (not much) damage and grants a high asi.) We should probably discuss the name.
dim, 03/25/2012 - 01:09
#6264
Bristling buckler can
Bristling buckler can upgrade, why not the Scarlet or the Swiftstrike?
dim, 03/25/2012 - 01:13
#6265
Good point. But I can't think
Good point. But I can't think of a 5* scarlet, someone would have to determine balanced stats.
dim, 03/25/2012 - 01:39
#6266
--
Why not just make an unimpressive 4* Swiftstrike so people can unlock T3 without having to get a different shield?
dim, 03/25/2012 - 01:51
#6267
Cause that would be a waste
Cause that would be a waste of ce. Are you serious? Spend 400 ce to get access to tier 3 while getting a shield that isn't even better than the 3* version? Are you kidding?
dim, 03/25/2012 - 01:53
#6268
@Kuratius
I never said that it wouldn't be better than the 3* version. I just said "unimpressive". Which probably means a little more defense, but not enough defense to make it comparable with other 4* shields.
dim, 03/25/2012 - 02:00
#6269
@Metagenic Did you even read
@Metagenic Did you even read this thread? The defense of a swiftstrike is unimpressive compared to other 3* shields, so I wrote down the idea to raise the stats by a percentual amount, which is pretty much what you're suggesting since we would still end up with a better shield with unimpressive stats. I kinda start feeling like being trolled...
dim, 03/25/2012 - 02:16
#6270
I think it should just
I think it should just "upgrade" to have lesser defenses, with eventual weaknesses in all of the elements. Then have it get CTR med and then damage low on it. For the win.
dim, 03/25/2012 - 02:25
#6271
@Fehzor that's pretty much
@Fehzor that's pretty much what Tsu-Basa-Me suggested: weaker shield with better Bonuses.
B2T: The defense increase needs to be high enough so it a 5* buckler isn't weaker than a 3* when used in tier 1 or 2, since higher star equipment gets nerfed.
dim, 03/25/2012 - 02:20
#6272
To be honest,
Don't scale the defences to the 3* Swiftstrike; what you want to compare the new 5* SSB with is to other 5* shields; say having 70% as much normal defence as an Aegis, and no other defence types.
That being said I do support a 4* SSB rather than a 5* (or at least have one 4* in between) simply because it allows continuity in upgrading and carrying over UVs (if any).
one with extremely high or max asi but no blocking at all and a shield that can take some (not much) damage and grants a high asi
I'd prefer a shield that can block at least one incoming attack; so the first idea is definitely out.
That and Ultra/Max ASI is... wow. Really something. Even the best weapon UVs can't get Ultra/Max ASI no matter how many times you roll.
dim, 03/25/2012 - 02:32
#6273
@Kentard we would still need
@Kentard we would still need to find some balanced stats by testing, so we can't decide if we want to base the stats on other shields or on tiers, and I was just talking about the minimum defense increase anyways, so it isn't based on tiers.
dim, 03/25/2012 - 04:14
#6274
In Addition to that, I didn't
In Addition to that, I didn't say we shouldn't create a 4* Swiftstrike Buckler, I just left that out since it'll just be a weaker 5* version, so determining stats won't be very challenging once we've got a balanced 5* version.
dim, 03/25/2012 - 07:21
#6275
~
There's one big problem: T2 has monsters with plenty of normal damage and little special types, so this shield has a chance to block an attack.
But a 5* version with a bit more stats on T3..... the shield will simply break against 70% of the attacks just like it's weaker brother.
dim, 03/25/2012 - 09:03
#6276
Maybe, but it would be nice
Maybe, but it would be nice if it wouldn't break from a single gunpuppy shot for example, like I said we'll have to do some testing to find stats that are weak enough not to make it comparable with other shields regarding defense and health, but not too weak to make blocking useless, it should at least withstand a single hit.
Maybe we should fool around with adding additional resistance and health and different monsters till we find a combination that fits? We'd need a game dev to do that, it's not something we need to discuss here, so let's just ask a simple question: would the majority of the SK players appreciate a 4* and/or 5* Swiftstrike Buckler with balanced stats? The answer is yes.
And that's the point, this is a useful suggestion that most players would like to see in-game,
but we still need one of the devs to look into the thread and work the idea out more exactly, so we'll keep discussing things we don't need to discuss till a dev looks into the thread.
I hope the suggestion area in the spiral knights forum is not as bad as in some of the games I played: No dev actually listens to you, they don't even fix most of the bugs that are simply caused by a lack of oversight, and they usually only fix bugs that are related to bad coding, not bad thinking (for example they add a building in a browsergame that reduces y cost by x%, then add a spieing system that uses up y, but the building doesn't influence the cost for spieing. The Bug even was reported, but has not been fixed yet, they knew about it for more than a year.). It would be nice if our voice was heard more often, though it may also be bad if it's heard too often, I've seen a game (Dungeon Defenders) where they did an update every week or something like that cause they didn't test the changes they made in a closed beta or something like that.
But B2T: So, as a resume: Everybody agrees with a balanced 4* and/or 5* Version of the Swiftstrike Buckler. Now we only need someone with access to the dev tools to determine the balanced stats, and voilà the idea can easily be implemented. Any thoughts about that?
dim, 03/25/2012 - 12:31
#6277
Off-topic note:
I don't know if you've noticed, but the Spiral Knights devs are constantly making changes in the game that respond to "bad thinking". A few major examples include: nerfing greavers' status clouds, buffing tons of armor, buffing Troika-line weapons, and nerfing zombies, retrodes, and alpha wolvers. The list goes on.
On-topic: I personally err more towards the school of thought that SSB is meant to be a skill-based shield and thus shouldn't provide much defense in return for really good bonuses. At the same time though, I think it's fair that an upgraded SSB would have enough health to save its users from a single T3 turret shot. So I guess I'm saying I agree with the idea that there should be at least two alchemy lines for SSB, one with mediocre defense/health and the same bonus as the 3* version; one or more with stronger bonuses and a hardly appreciable increase in defense. I think I actually agree with Metagenic in that it would be best if the 4* version receives a relatively small defense boost (yet large enough that the difference between the 3* and 4* versions is clearly noticeable in T3) - the 4* should act more as a transition between the 3* version and 5* upgrades, like Kentard implied.
lun, 08/06/2012 - 14:26
#6278
I Extremely Want It Too
Almost all the items, especially all the shield've upgrade scale to 5* level. But my favorite Swiftstrike Buckler doesn't. I think it's wrong. It's really useful shield for damagers, because of it very good buffs fire rate. Everybody knows: the best defence - is a good offence. Certainly, it's almost not usable for tanks due its low defensive properties. So i want to have upgradable offensive shield, to train it 5* completed.
E.g. this - Swiftstrike Buckler -> Rapid strike Buckler -> Instant strike Buckler . (or Supersonic Strike Buckler).
Each level has only health & normal defence without any special defences, also upgrading increase only defensive properties, because of high attach speed increase is most than enough.
I think it can be easily developed, using same model changing only colors (maybe quite size), e.g. so green->yellow->red. & addition item stats same proportions as other 3->4->5 shields. I'll wait it. It's extremely needed.
lun, 08/06/2012 - 16:24
#6279
You necro'd, added nothing,
You necro'd, added nothing, and have limited to no semblance of balance. There is no way to balance Swiftstrike beyond what is now. Please stop.
lun, 08/06/2012 - 16:51
#6280
Wait what
Including bombs, according to some.
This... this changes everything. Could somebody confirm it?
lun, 08/06/2012 - 17:02
#6281
Yeah, it increases the speed
Yeah, it increases the speed at which you raise the bomb over your head to charge.
lun, 08/06/2012 - 17:31
#6282
Oh.
Oh.
That is considerably less spectacular than I was imagining.
Actually, that sounds pretty useful. What I would like to see is a crummy shield or something that gives ASI Max for bombs. I would totes get it.
jeu, 10/25/2012 - 09:30
#6283
Yesh...
While this thread appears to have died 2 months ago, I support this idea and would like to see a 4 and 5 star WEAK upgrades, maybe something that can withstand a single T3 Slag hit. I'd love that. :)
jeu, 10/25/2012 - 11:09
#6284
Maybe have it alchemize into
Maybe have it alchemize into specialized 4* or 5* versions; leave the current bonus alone and add a second that gives ASI or CTR to a specific weapon type.
jeu, 10/25/2012 - 11:46
#6286
Another idea would be to make the shield cost more- make swiftstrike have higher defense, and only +1 ASI... then have it upgrade to have less defense and +2 asi and then again to have the current stats. This would be good game design, until you look at the huge number of redundant shields, especially considering that we'd have to raise it's defenses so that we can lower its defenses.
Thus, the best option would be to have the 5* swiftstrike be weaker than the current...
Or perhaps all shields should be given abilities, and be made loosely to fit into this? I'd go with that, to be fair... in fact, I'd say that such a move would be the best possible one, especially since OOO has promised us new combat things.
@Luigi
No one cares if its been suggested before, and no one wants to have to open a link to it. Stop that....
How would you like it if I were to walk up to you and spit out links to similar games that have had your ideas and be all "YOU AREN'T ORIGINAL" and then walk away without even reading into anything that's going on?
jeu, 10/25/2012 - 11:51
#6287
Awesome. That's what I get
Awesome. That's what I get for coming in so late.
I REGRET NOTHING!
jeu, 10/25/2012 - 11:54
#6288
I would go try those games and hopefully enjoy them. Most of my ideas were inspired from other games anyway.
That link has the opposite of your idea, gaining defense but splitting into specific weapon bonuses with less than the original +3 universal attack speed as it upgrades. And is not nearly older than this thread. Silly.
Its got a high asi to every weapon. Including bombs, according to some. So it gives your entire arsenal a huge buff. The point of it is a glasscannon type shield.