I prefer clockwork tunnels AKA Level Balancing
Sun, 12/05/2010 - 09:51
While most people complain about clockwork tunnels, I've noticed something.
At any given depth, the easiest is:
Graveyard, if you have a sword that will interrupt attacks on the first swing
Lichenous lair
Most CT levels
Most other fixed levels
Graveyard, if your sword does not interrupt attacks on the first swing.
Graveyard varies so much because for most of it, there's no room to back up and fire.
Most of the other levels have some sort of nasty fixed battle, sometimes multiple ones.
Soloing CT is easy.
Soloing most levels is not.
Can we please get a level rebalancing to make the special levels and CT at the same difficulty?
(CT difficulty: Different monsters are harder than others.)
Sun, 12/05/2010 - 12:27
#2
My point: If you are going to
My point: If you are going to have more non-clockwork levels, make them less painful -- right now, excluding a couple (lichenous lair needs sleep lichens, or SOMETHING), the non-clockwork levels are significantly harder.
Soloing ash wolves is EASY. One gun shot to bring a puppy to where you want to fight, and then sword them to death. Repeat, one wolf at a time.
The ease with which you can pull one at a time makes them too easy. And this is on my Mac.
Sun, 12/05/2010 - 13:38
#3
Lol it's not easy if you have
Lol it's not easy if you have a Brandish and only do 26 damage -.-
Sun, 12/05/2010 - 13:57
#4
I dont get how having a mac
I dont get how having a mac makes it harder behindcurtai
And clockwork tunnels are the easiest by far
And ash wolves arent easy
Try like depth 26
When you have 7 ash wolves
constantly teleporting around you, and theres an alpha ash wolver too
That is not easy dude, you cant out run them when they teleport either
Lichenous lair and graveyard are definitely not the easiest either
You should really do some "research" before you post things like this
Sun, 12/05/2010 - 15:31
#5
Lichenous lair is easy if you
Lichenous lair is easy if you do it right- I've solo'd through to the new boss level several times now. Jellies drop copious amounts of healing, and if you wear Chroma armor, the damage bonus makes you an unstoppable whirlwind of death. (just make sure to kill things fast, and bring a shield/trinket to resist piercing damage) Ditto for other levels- once more recipes are released, I expect to see some really great damage/defense options that will enable people to tune their gear sets to the level. (if only there was a "gremlin attack bonus" trinket. Hooboy)
Of course, to do so, we'll need to get a better sense of how minerals affect gate creation, and how to suppress clockwork tunnels levels (which I'm guessing are a default). The continuing addition of new levels to the mix should also help.
Sun, 12/05/2010 - 17:46
#6
Nah
The hardest levels are, in order of difficulty:
Arenas doing all 3 of them - Deconstruction Zone - Mechanized Mile - Vanaduke
Everything else goes in the Normal-Easy category.
Sun, 12/05/2010 - 18:45
#7
agree with pupu
but, behindcurtai, we are not complaining about dificulty at all when we say about putting less clockwork tunnels, but that it get's quite tedious whn you do a CT floor, then, the next floor is a CT, that is exactly a mirror, in most parts, of the previous level.
Also, in any depth, ash wolvers and alpha ash wolvers are easy, you only need to know when to attack, and when to fall back and shield. For any wolver, if they begin the charge animation, a single step back, out of range, followed by a step to the front, entering in range after the attack animation begun, is enough to prevent damage. I only have problems if there are ironwoods along them, because i prefer to kill these first. Also, the bad habit of all ash wolvers always teleport to the back of who they are targeting is really an awesome tatic for us, because it makes them predictable.
My only problems continue to be shield gremlins+any mage (fire or healer)
Sun, 12/05/2010 - 19:02
#8
The argument FOR clockwork tunnels is 'they're easy'?
If the choice is between hard levels and the same easy level over and over then I'd definitely go for the hard ones
Sun, 12/05/2010 - 21:34
#9
The argument isn't "for
The argument isn't "for clockwork tunnels".
It's "Most other levels are too deadly, and kill me".
Very few CT's cause my death.
Most non-CT's do.
The mac issue: Mac's have lower performance on Java / 3d games. It's not just mine (near the bottom of the game specs) -- other people with much better macs have complained as well.
Try like depth 26
When you have 7 ash wolves
constantly teleporting around you, and theres an alpha ash wolver too
From what I've seen, ash wolvers only teleport when you use guns.
Use swords and they die.
And 7? Did you pull that many, or did they spawn that large? I find that they almost ways spawn hidden inside some sort of maze, and I can pull them one at a time by single gunshots.
> Lol it's not easy if you have a Brandish and only do 26 damage -.-
Seriously, I took far less damage with my Brandish than I take now with my pre-korovod. The brandish would hit and interrupt attacks. Just "charge!" worked excellently.
With this "recommended by everyone" weapon? It stinks. Maybe it will be better once it becomes a Korovod, but until I find that recipe, yuck.
> Lichenous lair and graveyard are definitely not the easiest either
Lichenous lair I can solo, and leave tons of hearts behind. The only thing "deadly" is the gun puppies.
Graveyard? First time through, it killed me because I didn't know how it worked. Second time, with brandish, I left MORE hearts than Lichenous lair. Third time, with the pre-korovod, I died -- and this was when I learned that it doesn't interrupt attacks.
Trust me: If you know what you're doing, they are easy. Easy on bottom of the scale macintosh's.
Mon, 12/06/2010 - 04:28
#10
let's continue
-the other non CT levels are fine with me, as they have more variety (if compared with the so common CT), and other mechanics (all of this appart from mechanized mile and desconstruction level, they are hard as hell).
-ash wolvers do teleport for any reason to you (it's more or less like they are programed to respond any kind of movment with a teleport), and, sometimes, i see a ash wolver teleport around the room about 8 times until i can finally hit him, mainly when they are at low health. I think the issue here is that you can sucefully pull the attention of only 1 of them at a time (what i consider lucky, if you consider the range of the weapon), and thus, have an easier time. If an ash wover locks on you, then it will teleport (chance) if you attack him, in any form that doesn't interrupt them, or will teleport if they stay untouched for a long time.
-the khorovod is way better than the brandish, in all ways, you just need to learn to time your attacks so the second hit lands on the target, to have some time to shield after this, and i find it pretty easilly, even being able to hit both hits, sometimes, when there is fewer monsters (my pc have a major lag issue, so, it might be easier with others with better computers...and my pc is outdated too, only 2g ram).
Mon, 12/06/2010 - 06:43
#11
> The mac issue: Mac's have
> The mac issue: Mac's have lower performance on Java / 3d games. It's not just mine (near the bottom of the game specs) -- other people with much better macs have complained as well.
IE you have a crappy computer unsuitable for this game and so it should be easier, to compensate for your inherent disadvantage, at the detriment of other players who probably expect something challenging?
If you can't play the game properly due to technical issues then your machine needs to be upgraded AND/OR the game's engine needs to be optimized; the game's CONTENT shouldn't suffer.
Mon, 12/06/2010 - 07:12
#12
> From what I've seen, ash
> From what I've seen, ash wolvers only teleport when you use guns.
Negative. They are only less likely to teleport when you use swords. They still teleport regardless if you use a sword, bomb, or gun. Like many people said, try going to the Ash Wolvers in CT below Emberlight. They will teleport no matter what weapon you use.
This is my opinion, but maybe the reason why you're having so much difficulty with special levels is because you haven't played it enough. CT is easy because you played it many more times over than Starlight Cradle or Lichenous Lair. Personally, I have no problem soloing in either one of those below Emberlight, and my laptop resolution cuts off part of my client :P
Mon, 12/06/2010 - 07:23
#13
I agree that some types of
I agree that some types of depths are harder, or even much harder than others. Mostly the gremlin- or devilite-infested ones make things toughest for me. Basically that is because those monsters are somewhat "overpowered" in my opinion. For gremlins that is for the known issues, for devilites that is because of their high damage output and their ability to still get that object thrown at you even if they are knocked over or even killed before they threw it.
The other levels / monster types, seem quite evenly balanced. Of course there are some harder levels (like the "something something" Titan level, 3rd depth after Emberlight at some gate) but I don't mind an extra challenge really. And those don't seem to appear that often so you can switch to a different gate with easier levels if you like.
@Curtai:
It is also possible that you die more often in non-CT levels because they appear far less often, aka you're not quite that experienced at dealing with those levels?
As said before here by Benamas and by myself in another thread, don't push your computer's low performance up so much in order to change some game content. You play at a computer that can't give you the full experience that Spiral Knights has to offer you. Because of that, you can't give a non-biased opinion about several aspects of this game. Personally I find it somewhat frustrating to hear you bring up an issue again and again if it is strictly related to your computer's low performance. I know that it would be great if SK would be playable at older computers, but there's limits to how far you can push that.
Thirdly, Ash Wolvers don't always teleport because they get fired at, and they do teleport aswell if they are getting hit by swords. I don't quite see a steady pattern in how it works, but usually they move along after either taking a few hits, having moved too far away from you or when they reached a critical health.
Tue, 12/07/2010 - 01:35
#14
While my computer may be at
While my computer may be at the bottom of the specs, it is in the range of the specs, and the game does not perform adequately at those specs.
There are ways to improve the performance of the game at lower-end machines. Maybe I'll write something up. The key insight is that it is possible to -- in PvE -- synchronize what happens on the client computer to happen BEFORE it happens on the server, so that the response gets back to the server when it happens on the server.
At the very least, you can synchronize what happens on the client to be at the same time as the server -- that's as simple as running ntp as one of the java threads, and having the server timestamp "This event will happen at time T". That alone will get rid of half of the lag.
With nothing else, at least the client can do a better job of predicting what will happen. The "predict and correct" model currently fails when the client's predictions do not match the known changes that the server will make -- bramble and spike strips being the biggest such. The processing of input and sending commands to the server can be done in a dedicated thread other than the graphical loop, so that the commands are not delayed by graphical changes when things spawn or change to attack animations. (This actually may be restricted by the java graphical libraries; I don't know. I have not used these. They may be set up such that the event queue can only be accessed from the main thread and cannot be polled by a different thread.)
And yes, Three Rings can say "We will raise the minimum spec". Until they do, here is a machine (barely) within spec with performance problems. Nick (I think it was Nick) has said that they can tone down the graphics on Low at least one more notch.
And no, I don't play below emberlight. I'm still playing around with 2-star stuff.
Given the pricing on stuff, I expect most people will have purchased 2-star, and alchemized 3-star equipment for a large portion of their play time. I'm waiting for the recipe adjustment patch to come out.
As for "what makes the other levels difficult": Boss battles and mini-boss battles. The large "You and what army?" battles. In CT, I might fight a few X's in a group. I might have a large number of X's in a path structure that generally gives me some way to pick them off. Whether it's a maze that I open a small section and fight one or two at a time, or I have to open a large wall but then pull in 2's or 3's. The "worst" structure normally in CT is the counter-clockwise loop to find the hidden switch -- and it turns out that charged alchemizers have a longer gun fire range, and can kill across that gap, and ash wolvers can be drawn out across that gap -- that's enough to turn that structure from nasty to medium.
But stepping on an all party button, and having three ironwoods, 5 jellies, and 4 chromalisks all at once, and then having two more waves on top of that? Those big battles are just plain nasty. CT doesn't have them.
Tue, 12/07/2010 - 01:45
#15
But stepping on an all party
But stepping on an all party button, and having three ironwoods, 5 jellies, and 4 chromalisks all at once, and then having two more waves on top of that? Those big battles are just plain nasty. CT doesn't have them.
Lol. Below Emberlight those waves are incredibly normal for CT. I hope you don't plan on going a lot deeper if you're already frightened by that.
I also find it quite amusing how you can state in your OP "at *any given depth* the easiest are.. ", while you haven't been to or beyond Emberlight so far.
Tue, 12/07/2010 - 06:00
#16
Adventure below emberlight.
While I'm all for testing the earlier levels, I have to agree: it sounds like your ability to form sweeping conclusions is severely hampered by limited adventuring experience. You should try joining a core run with other experienced players sometime; it will definitely affect your evaluation of monster difficulty. Clockwork tunnels provide a straightforward adventuring experience partly because they have many chokepoints where you can spread out and control enemies, but some of the newer levels do a better job of showcasing what monsters are really capable of.
Furthermore, remember that those big groups aren't intended for you to solo against alone. OOO isn't known for making single-player games, and if you beta test alone, you'll have some weird experiences.
Tue, 12/07/2010 - 20:00
#17
i will try not to comment due real life problems
aka final of the university module tests. Just comenting on what Saphy-kun said: no, ash qolvers below ember don't teleport on every weapon, they teleport for any MOVE! It's incredible to see myself running to an ash wolver, and having all 3 on the room teleporting, in a solo run, without me pressing the atk button. Also, it's commom, for me, to see ash wolver go totally insane and teleport around the room nonstop until i get lucky with the timing and hit the final blow (considering this statment, they only do this to me when they are at critical). I calculate that they don't stay more than 1,50 second before teleporting again, to a local usually away from me...
I just want less Clockwork Tunnels (or more Clockwork Tunnel types... The levels get quite repetitive)
Soloing against Ash Wolvers in Emberlight isn't that easy though because they move quickly and they teleport -_-