Vitapod value and depth
mer, 12/08/2010 - 23:09
So as far as I can tell, the vitapod size is (local_depth + 1) * tier. If you open an energy door to get the pod, it seems to be an additional +1.
At the start, that's 1 at the party lobby, 2 at the first level, etc.
In the middle, that's 2 in the lobby, 4 on the first level, etc.
So what's the issue? This is out of balance.
For a party running from depth 1 to 7, you'll start with +1's, and end with +8's. You expect to have 4 people with values anywhere from +3 to +8 at the end.
And when you go deeper, you're at +2, +4.
So what can make this system better? Well, one method is just "depth", or "depth+1", rather than "local_depth". Then, you don't need to multiply by the tier group -- starting at Moorcroft (party lobby at depth 8), at depth 9, you'll get +10 pods instead of +4 pods.
Good? Bad?
If you think that depth 9, 10, should be meaner and nastier than 6, 7, then you expect the vitapods to be bigger at 9-10; the current system doesn't give you that. The current system makes you want to NOT leave the dungeons.
So, two questions:
1. Do you think the current system is broken, and needs to be improved?
2. Do you think this is a better solution? Do you have an even better one?
jeu, 12/09/2010 - 05:13
#2
1. I don't think it is
1. I don't think it is broken. The changes between towns don't bother me either. If you're having difficulties with levels below a town just because you don't have that +x vitapod from the last town anymore, then clearly it's your equipment that is insufficient, not your healthbar.
Also, below Emberlight you can hit +9 vitapods around local_depth 2. Just to point out your formula is off.
jeu, 12/09/2010 - 05:22
#3
I came, I saw, I took a picture and posted it on Facebook.
I don't really like vitapods, honestly.
Never did.
They always seemed unnecessary.
I think gear balancing would benefit if there were less ways to increase your survivability in a dungeon.
So you would have to choose between:
- Gear special abilities
- Resistance and Defence bonuses
- Maximum health offered
But I guess I could always make a thread for people to pretend to read, since it seems to be rather off-topic.
jeu, 12/09/2010 - 07:07
#4
Alternatives to vitapods
Alternatives to vitapods would be nice - i.e. other things that take up that slot. More types of passive powerups.
jeu, 12/09/2010 - 12:05
#5
Ever since there's been this abundance...
Ever since there's been this abundance of over-stuffed Vitapods, there's no use for Equip bonuses that give that pathetic +1 or +2 extra boost. It's useless. Look how much damage some of the mobs lower down do, like 8. However if these huge Vitapods did not exist, I think it would be almost impossible to get to the core with how much mobs do right now. Perhaps if they do some more balancing and mobs don't do such high amounts (and consequently less hearts drop) swapping out huge Vitapods for smaller ones and giving certain Equips HP bonuses would be a good idea.
I like the idea Shoebox mentioned wherein extra health should not always be a bonus, but rather a choice you have to make in what sort of strength you want your Knight to take on. I'd like to see huge amounts of HP be a choice a Knight has to make over other tactical advantages.
jeu, 12/09/2010 - 12:29
#6
> Also, below Emberlight you
> Also, below Emberlight you can hit +9 vitapods around local_depth 2. Just to point out your formula is off.
Hmm. Party lobby is the first, the first dungeon floor is the second, and if you have an energy door you get a +1; this is the third group, so you have a times three. That's 9.
Are we misunderstanding each other?
ven, 12/10/2010 - 02:41
#7
Well, not long after I wrote
Well, not long after I wrote that post I double checked and got a 9 one at the second (first depth after the lobby) local_depth. It came from a monster drop, not a treasure door or any.
ven, 12/10/2010 - 03:20
#8
You can get a larger vitapod
You can get a larger vitapod than expected at any point, from a monster drop or behind a door. You can also get regular-strength ones behind doors, which is now next to useless. Some of those levels need to be updated.
Also, on the topic of vitapod alternatives: when I first heard of the Mechaknight kit, I assumed it took up the vitapod slot. Makes sense to me, since it's obviously [meant to be] more powerful than any vial or pill.
ven, 12/10/2010 - 05:48
#9
mechanights aren't very
mechaknights aren't very powerful below Emberlight in my opinion really. They get smashed to bits after a wave or 2 :p
ven, 12/10/2010 - 06:22
#10
hence the [meant to be] part.
hence the [meant to be] part.
lun, 01/03/2011 - 04:33
#11
With the recent changes to
With the recent changes to the game, this topic needs revisiting.
Now that a single gate can be one continuous adventure, perhaps vitapods should not be tied to tiers.
Moorcroft or Emberlight also don't give vitapods to new parties now; this should probably change.
It is nice, however, to get a bonus for starting your adventure before the last subtown (when you reach emberlight you have lots of vials and a relatively large vitapod, while people starting at emberlight get nothing); it's an added option to play for a bit longer in one sitting to get a small initial advantage in the hard areas. I'd like to see this option remain in some form.
Thoughts?
lun, 01/03/2011 - 05:16
#12
I think the current vitapod
I think the current vitapod system is just one of the many examples that show how the devs "broke" their original game design around depth in order to try and force this new way of design in it. When you go through multiple towns, you bounce on getting vitapods of values way below your current because you're again in the "shallow" part of the new subtown. The game should keep track of how far you've already travelled and generate newer vitapods based on what your travelled depth is in my opinion.
Towards the "starter's bonus vitapod", I never really saw the use of that. As it is now anyway, your armor gives a higher health bonus according to your depth/subtown. So it's kinda worked in there already without the need of a vitapod?
1. No.
The dungeons are clearly delineated by tier. Moorcroft to Emberlight is a higher tier than Haven to Moorcroft.
Each run between towns can be considered to be a complete game in itself, which differ in overall difficulty. The floor just before emberlight is therefore an "end game" floor of a medium run, while the floor just after emberlight is a "first level" floor of a hard run. There is no rule that says there must be a perfectly smooth transition between the last level of one run and the first level of the next, because they are not connected the same way two floors in the same run are.
In each run, you start out with small vitapods and then increase to larger vitapods by the end. The vitapods scale based on tier. This is balanced, just not in the way you are thinking.
Perhaps it would make more sense to think in percentages, rather than linearly.
In every run you start out with just a little over your normal maximum health. (Remember that in lower depths you will have better armour.) In every run you get to the end with about twice your normal maximum health. Thus in an Emberlight run, you get the same relative rate of health progression as you do in a Haven run. This is how it is balanced. I believe this to be fine.