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How exactly does Lockdown damage work?

17 replies [Last post]
Fri, 08/30/2013 - 19:54
Deleted-Knight's picture
Deleted-Knight

Recently I did some damage tests in T2 Lockdown. It turns out damage bonuses and UVs don't affect things much...
However, more interesting is that damage dealt seems to be dependent on the current hp of the target.

Using the same loadout, I survived a Sealed Sword hit (first swing) when I had ~1.5 bars of health (1% left) but died in a different situation when I had ~3 bars of health.
Flourish damage also seem to decrease steadily. At perfect health, it would do ~3 bars, then the next hit something less (like 2.8 bars). I can say much about the hit after that because I only had 8 health as striker >.>
Rocket Hammer first swings seem to consistently do 4 bars on my dusker loadout with full hp, however I have survived first swing hits with 3 bars left.

Also, dusker with med pierce elemental takes virtually the same damage from flourish clones as a full dusker with pierce med, while quicksilver pierce med with dusker pierce med reduces that damage by significant 0.5 bars.

I know there has been armor and UV tests done for T3 Lockdown, but has anyone looked into the actual damage mechanics (more evident in T2 where players can sustain multiple hits)?
It would be great if people with full trinkets can take on the experiments to see if there's a significant drop in damage output as the hp goes down.

Side note: I really wish OOO would show attack damage in Lockdown (there's been a forum post suggesting it, but no reaction yet :/)

Sat, 08/31/2013 - 08:12
#1
Zeddy's picture
Zeddy

Damage in Lockdown is pretty straightforward, and works just like it does on monsters. The sealed sword you survived was possible done by two different people: One with max damage and one without?

I have no idea what the values are for T2, but for T3, all weapons inflict the same damage as they do on Depth 25. I have damage charts that keeps track of this.

Swords
Guns
Bombs

The top numbers are base damage. This is damage inflicted upon a deathmarked target. "No armour" means you're attacking someone who has no defence against your particular attack. For instance if you're shooting a skolver with a nova driver. Even though skolver has no elemental defence, the skolver will still have 100 defence against elemental just for not being deathmarked.

There are a lot of blanks because I'm missing some vital data, particularly on how defence works after defence exceeds half the amount of damage it's reducing. For any blank, you can assume that the damage is not higher than half the base damage.

1 pip = 41 health.

Sat, 08/31/2013 - 10:00
#2
Reqy
Thanks for the post Zeddy.

Thanks for the post Zeddy. It's consistent with my own data and then some :D

Sat, 08/31/2013 - 11:57
#3
Zeddy's picture
Zeddy

I would love to see your data. Mine's mostly fabricated.

Sat, 08/31/2013 - 14:01
#4
Deleted-Knight's picture
Deleted-Knight
Wow Zeddy

How long did it take you to get all that data? Each data value took at least a whole lockdown game since you need to wait until the end of the game to see the damage.. O_o

Sat, 08/31/2013 - 19:56
#5
Zeddy's picture
Zeddy

Naw, I only gathered a few numbers to determine armour defence and which depth the weapons were damaging according to, then used maths to extrapolate the rest.

Sun, 09/01/2013 - 16:41
#6
Deleted-Knight's picture
Deleted-Knight
T2 tests

I tested swift flourish/snarble barb (both yielded same result, so decided to use them interchangeably).
I took it on faith that people with no full inspect told the truth when asked about UVs.

----For no damage bonus----

Recon skull - 153 (on a dusker clone)
No resist - 111
Full dusker (no UV) - 90
brute helm, gunslinger bottom - 85
plate helm, cobalt 2* bottom - 111^

----For damage med----
Recon Skull - 166 (on a proto)
Full dusker (no UV) - 103
brute helm, dusker bottom - 103^

----For damage very high----
Full dusker (no UV) - 115

^these tests had unexpected results or had conflicting results when repeated.

Sun, 09/01/2013 - 16:52
#7
Deleted-Knight's picture
Deleted-Knight
Something just occured to me

Hey Zeddy, how did you determine recon death skull would give the base damage?
Have you ever tried death skull with poison to see if the damage could be further increased?

Sun, 09/01/2013 - 17:38
#8
Duio's picture
Duio
cradarc are u the guy that I

cradarc are u the guy that I wuz playin LD with and I hit u then u run back to base and said "Thanks Duio"?

Sun, 09/01/2013 - 17:48
#9
Zeddy's picture
Zeddy
@Cradarc

Yes, I combined poison with deathmark and saw that the result was the same in the end. That's how I figured poison had no more defence to reduce.

It also helps that damage inflicted by deathmark was the same as what I'd already calculated to be the base damage.

Sun, 09/01/2013 - 22:25
#10
Deleted-Knight's picture
Deleted-Knight
Update

@Duio, lol yeah that was me :P

-----------------------------------------------

I've analyzed the data, assuming the mechanics are the same as what Zeddy found in T3. Hopefully more T2 people can do their own tests to confirm or add to what I've got.

THIS IS FOR T2 LOCKDOWN:

1) Everyone has 42 base resistance to all damage types.

2) Base damage for some swords

Swift Flourish/Barb = 153 +/-0.5
Sealed Sword = 176 +/-0.5
Arcrazor = 142 +/-0.5 (okay, it's not popular, but I like it)

3) Base resistance for popular armor (individual pieces, not full set)
N = normal, P = pierce, E = elemental, S = shadow

Dusker = 14N 10.5P
Jelly* = 10.5N 15.5P

*Needs further testing

4) Each level of damage increase adds ~4% of the BASE DAMAGE

5) Interestingly, a single piece of dusker armor used in conjunction with an armor with no pierce resist does not affect the pierce damage dealt at all.

6) Also a tip for no trinket users:

8 hp as striker = ~325 health
Wearing full dusker means you take ~115 from a striker clone pick. It requires 3 hits to KO you.
Wearing Full elemental means you take ~136 from a striker clone pick. It still requires 3 hits to KO you.
Wearing full jelly means you take ~105 damage from a striker clone pick. After 3 hits, you might still be kicking.

Mon, 09/02/2013 - 04:31
#11
Zeddy's picture
Zeddy

Good reserach! Your results are very close to my own and that of other people who have researched these things.

8 pips = 8 x 41 = 328 health, so you were very close there.

Just as a heads up, defence is different in the clockworks. You have no defences outside of your armour, and your armour's defence is worth a lot more.

My own calculations put damage bonus at exactly 4% of base damage as well.

Mon, 09/02/2013 - 21:28
#12
Deleted-Knight's picture
Deleted-Knight
Update #2

Useful data collected

Formatting got messy after conversion to Google but it's legible. I'm going to stop now and actually enjoy some LD games.

Mon, 09/02/2013 - 23:22
#13
Zeddy's picture
Zeddy

Regarding the nightblade, it's hitting what I call "the treshold". See this topic about defences.

Basically, if a defence exceeds half the base damage, funny things happen.

Nightblade has two base damages: the shadow part and the normal part. They have funny things happen to them seperately.

Tue, 09/03/2013 - 12:01
#14
Momofuku's picture
Momofuku
5) Interestingly, a single

5) Interestingly, a single piece of dusker armor used in conjunction with an armor with no pierce resist does not affect the pierce damage dealt at all.

Does this mean you need two defense types worth of buffs to notice a difference in damage? A single dusker's piercing defense is the same as having no pierce defense at all?

@Zeddy
Flourish no armor deals 315 @ Max with no pierce defense at all vs 290 with Skolver? I'm assuming a Skolver's pierce defense is equal to a UV max pierce.
That means two UV Max pierces reduce flourish damage by 25 (60% of a pip)?

Since it looks like defense reduces damage by a fixed amount (and not by percentage), it has less effect on people using Max damages and more influence on people wearing less than max buffs (since they lose a greater % of damage dealt).

Also your Valiance data by depth: is it actually true that the damage stays at 108 between depths 24-28? I don't understand how that can be the case when every other weapon increases damage by increasing depth, including Valiance's charge shot.

Tue, 09/03/2013 - 13:48
#15
Deleted-Knight's picture
Deleted-Knight
@Momo

Hit on proto was 111, hit on lvl 10 dusker armor pierce med and cat hood was also 111. Proto had no UVs, Dusker had pierce med, hood had no pierce UVs.
There might be some other factors at play, but it appears that single pierce armor is useless...

Tue, 09/03/2013 - 13:50
#16
Deleted-Knight's picture
Deleted-Knight
@Zeddy

Hmm, if the nerf on resistance is true, then those showoffs who use lower-powered gear might actually not be so nerfed after all...

Tue, 09/03/2013 - 17:19
#17
Zeddy's picture
Zeddy
@Momofuku

Yes, Valiance does 108 damage each depth from 24 to 28. The reason for this is that its attack power is so low that it only increases by the same rate that enemy defence does.

I will have to perform a lot of tests regarding defences and skolver and toothpicks and such. You should take my chart with a large grain of salt.

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