Look at these tables first:
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/User:HexZyle/Appropriate_Equipment
I never realised how many elemental+fire and shadow+poison armors there were.
Look at these tables first:
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/User:HexZyle/Appropriate_Equipment
I never realised how many elemental+fire and shadow+poison armors there were.
I'm not posting suggestions for equipment.
I'm starting a discussion on the redundancy of certain armors and the gaps in the current arsenal.
If you want to try to correct the subforum location of a thread, make sure you get it right.
Except that he neither said you were posting suggestions for equipment nor that your thread was misplaced.
He was saying what someone should do if they were posting suggestions.
If you want to try to correct the point of someone's post, make sure you get it right.
I think some of us are too used to the subject lines of posts being redundant or not there at all.
With a common forumer post (I am guilty for this too) being to complain about a thread's location, the likeliness of a person genuinely adding onto an OP's post for additional clarification for future readers on thread creation based on a similar topic is minimal.
(How's that for a sentence subject stack?)
Even in the cases when they are concerned about successive reader's reactions to a thread (which is, as far as I've seen, never occurred), the forumer generally uses a more polite post structure, as opposed to the reprimanding joke template "If you want to (perform inappropriate action), do it in (appropriate place), not here"
FYI Avenger-Of-Troy is characterized by his informative, yet blunt comments. He was partially correct, and thus I made an appropriate thread move.
or you could just read the post and go by what it says.
If you missed the subject line like Draycos said, that's totally ok, just say so.
But anyway, let's stay on topic.
I'm guessing they wanted to associate poison with shadow, many of the poison weapons are shadow too.
as well as shock/fire/freeze with elemental, normal with stun, etc.
would be nice to have more combinations but from what I've read on the test forum they are trying to do this with the many gunner armors.
or you could just read the post and go by what it says.
Whenever I do that people facepalm in my general direction due to my inability to understand sarcasm or general easily understood subliminal messages.
Why should I suddenly become ignorant when someone is trying to give me advice (albeit in a blunt manner?)
If you missed the subject line like Draycos said, that's totally ok, just say so.
My second paragraph clearly outlines that I did not, by requoting a conversational template that he used for his post.
I'm guessing they wanted to associate poison with shadow, many of the poison weapons are shadow too.
I don't think it's that poison weapons are being associated with shadow, if you take a look at shadow weapons there are next to zero, and the only status variants were added only recently which were following a set theme. Before that there was 1 Poison Normal, 1 Poison Piercing, 1 Poison Shadow, and 1 Poison Elemental if you REALLY want to count VV.
as well as shock/fire/freeze with elemental, normal with stun, etc.
Flamberge and Pepperbox seperate Fire from Elemental for the time being (although I wish that one of the upcoming Fire Guns was normal or piercing instead of Elemental, would be a nice way to fill out the variety tables) and actually there is only two elemental weapons (out of the miserable three weapons total) that deal freeze, the freeze armor sets are actually balanced nicely between the three damage types (same can't be said for shields)
Stun is associated with big impact weapons, and half the stun weapons are piercing, half are normal. No shadow or elemental, c'mon. :(
would be nice to have more combinations but from what I've read on the test forum they are trying to do this with the many gunner armors.
The Gun Table is going to be fleshed out a little when the gunner update hits (I've gone ahead and already placed the new guns on it in hidden text) and we're going to get (in generalization, like I generalized all the Kat Helms into one representation) 1 armor for each of the 3 damage resists and each of the main 4 status resists for a total of 12 icons being added to that area of the table (and the same 12 being placed in the Normal column, 3 per status resist)
Even so, piercing armor in general is lacking, and we still have no Stun Resist shadow armors, and only one Stun + Elemental armor (yet have a ridiculous number of Normal + Stun shields)
Actually, continuing along that we don't really have that many shields, period. Perhaps more shields that match armor lines could be made, there's the possibility for the often suggested Ice Queen and Quicksilver shields, and what about a shield with Elemental and Stun resist for Lumbers?
Shock resist armor looks really bare, even the Gunner Update won't fix that problem. (Change Almirian Crusader to match Crest of Almire plox)
And then you get to weapons.
There are that many holes, even on the sword table. A full Rabid Snarby set of equipment wouldn't go astray for Poison + Piercing weapons and Poison + Elemental armor. The next big update should definitely be something along the lines of a Bomber update.
Anyway, all in all, every category of equipment is lacking except the Fire Status and the No Status category. Some more than others (Need Poison and Shock everything, please!)
I don't care if it's all reskins, it's still variety.
Glacies and Hexzyle have come up with some cool tables. Excelsior!
A cool table, to be sure. A few things I'd like to point out-
+Iron slug doesn't deal stun. It might be changed (no telling, of course) in the gunner update, as we can speculate from the existence of a new shadow+ice magnus variant, which was in turn given to us by someone else, right here in the arsenal.
+You forgot about the kat hats, but you did add the tortodrone shields. Should event items be accounted for? Newer players, and those that don't enjoy waiting ages to grind for a week will never have access to them.
+Some items, like obsidian edge that dealt normal + shadow + poison, were not included in the shadow+normal section... while other items, like acheron, were included in both. Would it be best to place them in all categories that describe them? Or only the exact space in which they fit? Keep in mind that obsidian edge also has an attack that does normal + shadow but no poison, its normal swings.
+There exist a few major limitations to your graph- no monster buffs, or anything aside from damage and status are present. Negligible damage is also not mentioned, and could perhaps be dealt with in some manner?
+There is no mention of weaknesses. We have a shadow + poison armor that trades off fire resistance. What about one that trades off ice resistance instead?
Overall I really like this though, and I think its a wonderful indicator of where all of our major gaps in everything are. It would be nice to make more for things like attack speed, MSI, etc. as well as ones that track the defense amounts of things (heavenly iron = valkyrie + more normal defense)
Why should I suddenly become ignorant when someone is trying to give me advice (albeit in a blunt manner?)
Well, you are now to my post at least. But, instead you'd rather be paranoid.
Known trolls make legitimate posts as well.
I don't think it's that poison weapons are being associated with shadow, if you take a look at shadow weapons there are next to zero, and the only status variants were added only recently which were following a set theme. Before that there was 1 Poison Normal, 1 Poison Piercing, 1 Poison Shadow, and 1 Poison Elemental if you REALLY want to count VV.
I didn't say every poison weapon was shadow as obviously I'm aware of the non-shadow ones. But, even the shadow/poison armors were not originally so (Snarbolax armor didn't exist, Shadowsun used to be piercing, etc.). So don't use recent availability as an excuse, we're talking about now
Flamberge and Pepperbox seperate Fire from Elemental for the time being (although I wish that one of the upcoming Fire Guns was normal or piercing instead of Elemental, would be a nice way to fill out the variety tables) and actually there is only two elemental weapons (out of the miserable three weapons total) that deal freeze, the freeze armor sets are actually balanced nicely between the three damage types (same can't be said for shields)
Again, you're assuming I'm talking about absolutes, which is why you're quickly naming single counter-examples to say I am wrong. (Like before, hastily assuming what someone is saying)
My point was those elements are commonly associated with those statuses which is why a large number of, not every one of them are paired together. That is why you see more of them in the equipment lines, too.
PS: Don't forget about Poland, I mean, Cold Snap.
PPS: I forgot about Shadow/Curse
Iron slug doesn't deal stun.
The table is up to date with the gunner update (excluding the gunner armors because unlike with the weapon damage types and statuses, I am not 100% sure that all 36 (64) armor sets will be added to the game)
The new guns I've deemed "blatant spoilers" so I've hidden their icons using hidden text (there's no icons for them anyway so they'd just mess up the table's format)
You forgot about the kat hats
As all Kat Hats have basically the same stats bar the offensive bonuses being tweaked and have the same obtain method, representing them individually would be a waste of space. Thus they are represented by the Black Kat Cowl in the Freeze+Normal and Freeze+Shadow sections.
Some items, like obsidian edge that dealt normal + shadow + poison, were not included in the shadow+normal section... while other items, like acheron, were included in both
The Acheron does not have a status, so it's represented in the Normal+No Status and the Shadow+No Status columns.
The Obsidian Edge does have a status, so it's represented in the Normal+Poison and the Shadow+Poison columns
Regardless of whether it deals the status on the main attack or the charge, this is a negligible enough difference that two weapons with just this as a difference would be redundant. (A lot of people see the FoV as just a slower Combuster with a different charge, forgetting the difference in fire application on the combo) Therefore I don't see it that important to categorize weapons based on which part of the combo or charge attack deals the status, the table's already lacking in items to categorize as it is.
There exist a few major limitations to your graph- no monster buffs
Note that title of the page "Appropriate Equipment" and the fact that the equipment is only sorted into the three damage types rather than the six family types. The intention was to demonstrate what armor in a general sense (not a ultra-specialist sense) is the best equipment for a specific damage-outputting-level.
It could be sorted by family bonuses, but seeing as families usually come in pairs of similar damage output (although weaknesses vary, there's not enough weapons to split further) I didn't see it as a high priority at the time of making the table.
The table could most definitely be split at this current point from 4 columns to 7 (6 for each family: a piece of armor falling into a cell when it either has the damage bonus vs the family, or the defense bonus against the family, but removed from the cell if it has a penalty versus the family)
There is no mention of weaknesses
I was aiming for "optimization" with the table. If you have one of the armors in the cell that matches the damage type and status, then pick it. For example, if you are visiting a level with monsters dealing Poison and Shadow, you could pick the Valkyrie Set or the Fallen Set. (or one of the others listed in said cell, if you owned them too) But if instead you were visiting a level with monsters dealing Fire and Shadow instead, you'd go with the Fallen Set (or the Divine Set if you owned that) due to the fact that Valkyrie does not appear in that cell.
What about one that trades off ice resistance instead?
So generally, this chart was made as both a quick-glance at what you need for what level, and also to show what levels we currently do not have equipment for. If you want to suggest something like a Valkyrie Set but with Freeze weakness instead of Fire, that's all good and well, but do note that there are already a lot of Armor Sets in that Poison + Shadow section alread. It would be more covering of the table if you swapped out resists rather than weaknesses, for example, changing the Poison resist for Stun resist.
Do it in the suggestions subforum.
Not this one.