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A really optional AT in lockdown

10 replies [Last post]
Mon, 06/09/2014 - 07:21
Valtiros's picture
Valtiros

I had already made a suggestion to make lockdown pure skill-based.
Neverthless, I understood that my proposal would be likely to make OOO lose money.

Still, every lockdown game, I notice the problem of Auto-aim.
admittedly, we could say that it is psychological and doesnt really improve the skills.
Yet, I always, always see people who complain about it, we must grant that it improves your aim, even only a bit. Thus, it facilitates the game even only a little.

This is a problem since it spoils the game experience for many players who keep insulting their adversaries of "AT noobs" or even quit the game out of rage.

The logic solution would be to Ban auto-aim from lockdown.
Nevertheless, such a measure would make many people who cant play without AT angry and stop playing lockdown, and it would also requires to explain why AT is such a problem, and its importance in the aiming and also y people who complain about it don t just use it too.

My idea aims at satisfying everyone without annoying anyone.

in the same way that in blast network, we can choose to play in brawl or by teams, we could choose to play in lockdown either AT allowed, or AT forbidden.

In that way, nobody would be despoiled, people who want to play without AT woudnt be imposed it by others and people who play with it can carry on playing with it .

If such a update happened, I d be delighted :p

Mon, 06/09/2014 - 07:53
#1
Autofire's picture
Autofire
You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

No.

Go watch Extra Credit's "Scaling for Difficulty" video on Youtube. Then come back.

Mon, 06/09/2014 - 08:16
#2
Feyi-Feyi's picture
Feyi-Feyi

Definitely never done before.

Oh wait, http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/60540, whoops.

Mon, 06/09/2014 - 08:20
#3
Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
If you want a perfectly

If you want a perfectly balanced game take away trinkets, AT, and give everyone spiral order sets with no UVs

(and watch as more play T1 LD than this)

Mon, 06/09/2014 - 08:34
#4
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

Oh look, its this thread again.

I still hold that the biggest issue in lockdown is skilled players that run around breaking the game with crazy UVs AND crazy skills AND crazy trinket slots. Dying over and over again to these people really makes the minigame less fun for me, so I would suggest simply banning them from normal coliseum matches, and giving them their own auto-aim-less elitistic high rewards coliseum of some sort, so that the rest of us can have our casual fun.

Mon, 06/09/2014 - 08:56
#5
Valtiros's picture
Valtiros
Fehzor and Holy-Nightmare : I

Fehzor and Holy-Nightmare : I totally agree, the perfect would be to give everyone the same stuff so that it is perfectly balanced and skill-based, nevertheless I understood that such a thing would be a loss of money for OOO since people pay to make a powerful equipement and it brgins money to three rings . My idea concerns only Auto aim for this is the only thing that doesn t involve money ( since everyone can activate or not activate it)

Auto-fire, I didnt find what you re talking about, post a link or explain me by yourself please.

Feyi: My english is not perfect, and as a consequence it is hard for me to read all the answers to this threat.
Yet, with all the "+1"s should I understand that OOO will consider the proposal of thrillaus?
What s more, what he proposes concerns only the guild matches doesn t it? of I might have not understood :/

Mon, 06/09/2014 - 19:35
#6
Vaked's picture
Vaked
Rant

As many of us know AA in ld ruins the game. This is a rant about AA followed by ways to fix it. First off, it is comical how people compare UVs and trinkets to AA. UVs and trinkets do not change the direction of your characters attacks. A player with trinkets still swings their sword where they aimed. A player with UVs still swings their sword where they aimed. A player with AA swings their sword in the general area of where they aimed. This is often times altered, by the game, to point in the direction in order to hit the target.

When i used to play t2 ld I used 2 trinkets, no UVs and no AA so I had pretty average gear. I almost always had BY FAR the most caps (like anybody cares about that) and amongst the highest damage. I considered myself a very good ld player and so did most other people.

The reason I quit? AA

Most times when I 1v1 against another player that was using AA I would win and they would land a few shots. However I remember one time specifically a player had beat me and wouldn't shut up. I convinced him for a rematch with no AA and he did not hit me once. He immediately stopped taunting me and actually apologized and said how amazed he was.

In most cases AA doesn't directly make you kill more people, it just makes you land more hits than you normally would. Many times players with AA go blindly combo-ing into the other team and they will land complete BS hits (2-3 hit on flourish or full hammer dash). Ahh the AA hammer, nobody using AA seems to care about AA until the somebody pulls out the AA hammer (or normal hammer for that matter). Then they are whining more than they whine about the "lag" that caused them to die.

The worst part about it is the way they talk themselves up as if they are the best. Many players who use AA are very good, I will not argue that. However, they are not as good through skill of their own. They are being directed at the target (in a sense giving them more range) and not aiming at the target themselves. What I couldn't stand was the end of game match when the AA players would say something along the lines of "WOW top damage!" or during the match when they were saying how much better they were than a specific player. I usually kept my mouth shut. Guarantee if that player turns of AA, they do not come close to that damage and they do not touch that other player.

I have seen many games have their outcome completely altered by a random player using AA. I have had many times where I have been mid capture with low health and some player will come flying out, freshly respawned, hit me with AA a few times and capture the point for their own team. This player would have very little chance to effect the game if they had not been using AA. While some may argue that is a good thing, I do not.

I do not mind people using trinkets. I do not mind people using max or vh UVs. I do not mind players using hammers. They worked to get those and I respect that. The only thing that I mind is players using AA. Your should not be able to hit a switch and be able to automatically hit players. I could be competitive with pro players who used UVs and trinkets and hammers. I couldn't be competitive with "pro players" using all of those on top of AA. I lose respect for those who are not actually hitting where they aimed as it is not entirely their skill.

Now that my rant is done I suggest they to one of three things:
1. Create separate games for AA vs actually controlling your character. This has been suggested many times.
2. Keep the games mixed, but do not let the players using AA talk and perhaps put a paper bag over their head so we know they are just blindly swinging their sword.
3. Do not allow AA at all in ld.

Until they implement one of these I do not see myself ever playing ld on a regular basis again. I have my recipes and I do not find the games fun with AA.

I know many people have suggested things for AA in ld but I feel we must continue to suggest until they do something about it. Also option #2 brings something new to the table and would make ld more bearable.

PS: In this rant I refer to players using AA as real players to make it easier to comprehend. They are in fact robots.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 03:46
#7
Valtiros's picture
Valtiros
I totally agree with

I totally agree with Tactle-Neck.

With all the people who complain about it and the people who leave the game because of it, it s quite obvious that there is a current issue with auto aim.

Regarding your proposals;

1: Yeah sure, recurrent idea but I find to be perfect because it annoys nobody, neither Aters, nor non Aters and I don't know why it is not done yet.

2 I d never had thought of something like this but ... I enjoy :p it would be a kind of "AT shaming" the good point is that people could play with AT but at their own risks. it that way, we can differenciate "pure players" from "helped players"

3 this one, I don t agree. actually, the ideal would be to have no AA at all in lockdown from the beginning. As a matter of fact, in every game that proposes player vs players, aids to aim that are originally designed to help new players to aim the mobs ( so in PvE) are disabled for the PvP.
However, spiral knights decided ( I don t know why) to remain this option available in lockdown ( which is PvE).
As a consequence, many players availed this option to improve their own efficiency in the game and now they get used to it.
I am sure that removing At would make more people play lockdown over time , nevertheless, it would make people who can t play without ATdisgusted and make them leave the game for a while in the short term.

That s why I think that borth first are the best because they don t despoil anyone.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 04:54
#8
Achys's picture
Achys
+1 Val

Already been said ! Tactle-Neck is a player like us . I also agree with him.

Feyi you talk too much (comme d'hab, et pourtant rien ne change :D )

Okay, you want a game?

Valtiros and myself will be posting some new games for the PVP.
Us would ask for your supports and we do not wish to in dispute in gamers ! I think this post will suit all PVP players !

To be continued ...

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 08:24
#9
Feyi-Feyi's picture
Feyi-Feyi

I think you misunderstand me Achys.

I am for a LD where people can choose in which environment (no At, No UV, no trinket, no noob (lol) they can play.
I'm just saying that what Valtiros is proposing here was a suggestion before, with support from many people, but OOO never listened.

Also Fehzor: are you really gonna punish people for being good at something?
Most people are in favor of a ranking system where teams would be balanced, but absolutely no one ever wanted to put people in a separate 'league' simply because of skill difference.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 09:16
#10
Petater's picture
Petater

Hopefully LD lobbies become a thing with configuration options. Then we can specify whether to have at, UVs, and lock the team sizes.

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