Community action against CE costs
Tue, 06/07/2011 - 09:55
*Let me make this perfectly clear. This thread is about ways to lower the cost of CE on the market through community means. Sure its not that bad, but wouldnt it be nice to be able to buy CE cheaply with crowns?
There are alot of threads on the forum complaining about how much CE costs now. The only thread that I could find that was searching for possible solutions involves a player who is, apparantly, quiting the game paying out tons of CE and Crowns to whoever comes up with a solid idea for change with the energy market.
I know there are alot of people who manipulate the energy market for their own gain. And I don't mean buying energy then selling it for a higher cost, but increasing the cost by huge amounts and create walls with bids that are over 100. Isn't this just hurting them in the long run? When a fresh player starts out they make very little crowns, and need CE. If they stop by the market they will be overwhelmed and be unable to purchase CE with crowns, so instead they will buy it with real money. Then they will take and add their bids to the market to sell energy. Increasing the cost even more. If we work together to lower it, more people will be able to afford CE. Thus you will have more people to swindle when you then turn around and sell that CE for a profit. Buying CE for 6k and selling it for 6.5k still nets you the same profit if you were to buy it for 4.5k and sell it for 5k. There are still enough people that dont utilize the marketplace that this kind of profit will still be available.
So what can we do. We can go into zone channels and tell people not to buy/sell energy until the prices drop. We can convince people who are creating these walls to stop and realize what they are doing is not really helping them.
Is it crazy for me to hope that we can do this. Am I missing something that others see? I can afford CE with runs, but what about the tier 1 players, should we just leave them in the dust?
****
--> CURRENT SOLUTION <--
we can, as a community, create a market reset. There is another forum user who is quitting the game. He is offering up all of his CE (40k) and resources to someone with a solution to the market problem. If we can convince him that we are going to do this, we have a good shot at gaining these resources. This would be huge. Just so you know if he was to give it to us, this is how we would proceed.
You would all go and sell whatever energy you have through the trade button, NOT THE MARKET. This will allow you to get the optimum price. Then I will buy as many crowns as I can with all of my energy. This will drive down the buy side of the market by 400+ bids.
Now this is when I take a hit. The selling side of the market is what will be the most costly. What we have to do, is as soon as we get the buying side down to what we want. I will take and buy as much energy as I can with my crowns. This will actually increase the cost of energy. However once I have purchased as much energy as I can, we will post walls on the selling side reflecting our desired price. Thus restarting the market, because everyone will hopefully conform to the new prices.
My guess is that at most I will lose 1k - 5k energy through this process. So that will leave us with around 35k energy to be placed on the market. Equallying 350 bids from me alone. If this doesnt stabalize the market, nothing the community can do will.
--> Possible Solution <--
The first idea I propose is a dungeon financing system. Where richer players can finance trips down into the clockworks for lower level players. For instance for an advance of 1000 crowns a tier 2 player can purchase 70 CE. This is enough to let them do a JK farm run. They then will, after completing the dungeon, send 5000 crowns to the person who financed their trip.
These numbers may need to be altered to work effectively. But this would allow lower lvl players to get heat for free, as well as mats. And for some veterans to make crowns to then transfer to energy.
For a thread on one possible solution visit this http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/10694
Tue, 06/07/2011 - 10:46
#2
Real money
I feel the biggest issue would be that you spent real money on the CE. Meaning that people like me, who are barely scraping by after spending a good amount of money get frustrated that people are screwing people over like that.
Only the rich would be able to influence it down, which ironically, would help them more than anything. They just don't realize it.
The creation of a black market trade for energy would def help. You would just have to find people willing to sell their CE for alot less. And people who would buy it to then use for things like dungeons and what not. If you could create that people would skip the marketplace and just buy it from individual players. We would just need to find people rich enough to do it. And figure out how to make it work... However these people who sell the CE would then have to be able to find people to buy CE from for 5k.
Tue, 06/07/2011 - 10:54
#3
No tinfoil hats, please.
The CE cost isn't 6.5K because of market manipulators; CE really IS worth 6.5K per 100 now, not the 5K it was last week. What happened? The end of school happened. This time of year sees an influx of new players with a lot of newfound time, searching for a new game to play. All of these players will generate crowns, assuming they play the game at all; very few of them will purchase CE with cash, though, since they're just trying out the game. As a result, the supply of crowns has increased, while the supply of CE has not, and so CE will cost more crowns. In short, if you're looking for someone to blame for the energy prices, "blame" the new players. (Not that it's their fault; this is just a byproduct of summer starting.)
The most concerning problem is the fact that you can't do ANYTHING without energy. This can cause a lot of new players to get "stuck" if they spend their first 200 energy incorrectly, and that makes for a poor first impression of the game. I believe we need to do at least one of the following:
(1) Drastically reduce the energy cost of T1 elevators. Ideally, I'd like to see T2 elevators reduced too, so we have 2/5/10 as the elevator costs, just like revives; however, crown/heat returns are unbalanced enough as it is with JK runs, so unless that's fixed, we might have to settle for 2/10/10. In either case, dropping the T1 elevator cost to 2 allows new players to play the "easy but not very rewarding" levels essentially as much as they want with less damage to the economy, since T2/3 runs will be preferred for the better materials and higher rewards per unit time.
(2) Introduce a 24-hour "elevator pass" targeted at players with a lot of time and not a lot of money, probably costing 500 energy (number tweakable, of course). In addition to giving new players a mist tank, give them one (untradeable) elevator pass; this will enable a player just trying out the game to have unlimited access for the first day, allowing them to better decide whether they like the game enough to keep playing.
(3) Introduce a materials *market* (the auction house format isn't very useful for materials) that functions just like the CE market. New players actually do receive enough rewards to be able to sustain their dives, but the rewards aren't sufficiently liquid; the hassle of selling shards and bronze bolts and the like is just too high for the amounts of CR involved (unless the sales are in bulk, which a new player clearly won't do).
Tue, 06/07/2011 - 10:59
#4
I totally agree
Everything have to say is true. I am not disputing this. The fact is that the amount of crowns is increasing while the amount of CE is decreasing. We all learned about supply and demand. I will not judge your post due to the fact that you make good points, but this thread is about trying to do something about it now, without involving the developers. We can lower the prices. In the end ( I believe) that the value of energy is set by the community.
The people hurting the most from this are the new F2P players. While ironically the new P2P players will be fine.
I am thinking up an idea right now. Something to do with financing runs for lower players. Something along the lines of paying 1000crowns per player for 70 energy for jelly king runs. Then a certain amount of crowns gained from the run is taken from each player. I would have to do the math later, right now I am off to work. I will keep thinking about it there.
Oh and your right, energy is the cause of all the energy problems.
Tue, 06/07/2011 - 11:01
#5
I don't see where the problem
I don't see where the problem is and don't see a need for action.
Tue, 06/07/2011 - 11:26
#6
T1 players generate crowns?
T1 players generate crowns? Really now? Maybe go ahead and take a pen and paper and write down how much you actually do from those runs before you jump the gun like that.
Tue, 06/07/2011 - 12:52
#7
I'm not the one who jumped the gun.
Starting crowns: 89268
Venom Fang Arena: Robo Rampage 89740 (472) + 11 0* (275) + 14 1* (350) = 1097
Jigsaw Valley: Jade Tangle 89971 (231) + 3 0* (75) + 7 1* (175) = 481
Deconstruction Zone: Circuit Breakers 90323 (352) + 5 0* (125) + 4 1* (100) + 1 token = 577
Gloaming Wildwoods: Terrilous Trail 91156 (833) + 7 0* (175) + 2 1* (50) + 2 2* (200) = 1258
Gloaming Wildwoods: Roarsterous Ruins 92049 (893) + 2 0* (50) + 4 1* (100) + 2 2* (200) = 1243
Gloaming Wildwoods: Lair of the Snarbolax 92067 (18) + 3 boss tokens
Totals: 2797 + 28 0* (700) + 31 1* (775) + 4 2* (400) + 1 token + 3 boss tokens = 4672 (+ tokens)
Break even point (60 energy, current price of CE = 6.5k CR for 100) = 3900
Assumptions: 0* mats worth 25 each, 1* mats worth 25 each, 2* mats worth 100 each
Which proves my point: the pure crown reward isn't enough to sustain runs for T1, but the total reward IS--provided you can actually liquidate your materials, which new players can't (not in a reasonable amount of time) without a materials market.
Tue, 06/07/2011 - 12:55
#8
Yes, T1 players generate crowns.
@jooozek
Each T1 player generates roughly 400 crowns for every level they run since most of them don't really know how to maximize crowns when they run. That's 4000 crowns per day per player assuming they stop running when they hit zero mist (as many seem to do because they don't yet understand they can buy CE for crowns and keep playing; and if they are only making 4000 crowns per 100 ce, it won't help them anyway.)
Multiply that 4000 per day by 1000 or so new players and you have 4 million crowns a day being poured into the economy. And don't tell me there's only 1000ish players delving right now, I know that. But it's not the -same- 1000ish players from morning to night. Well, not -all- of them are the same, especially if they log off after spending their 100 mist.
Tue, 06/07/2011 - 13:42
#9
It may not affect you / Financing
@Dirt
You may not see any issue with it. I don't kow if your a F2P player or a P2P player. It is an issue for newer players though who want to play for free.
I also feel that I have a great way for people to make crowns/CE without using the market. Lets say you have some extra energy, and your in a guild. There are a few people in tier 2 that are preparing to start farming the jelly king. Leveling up equipment etc, etc. What you could do is "finance" their runs. It costs 70 energy to complete the dungeons (excluding the jelly king). So you offer them 70 CE for 1000crowns up front. Then they hand over, lets say 5000 crowns once they are done with the dungeon. Currently energy costs around 6-6.5k crowns. For 70 CE you have pretty much made enough to buy 100 more CE.
Why would people do this? Well first off if you dont die you get a free ride throught the clockworks, and you get to keep all the mats, heat, and extra crowns you make. And the person putting forward the CE makes more at a competitive price, for doing no work at the market. This is of course a rough idea but I think with some more research it could be a viable option for lower level players.
Tue, 06/07/2011 - 14:02
#10
(CE Price: 6550) Cycle 1 (On
(CE Price: 6550)
Cycle 1 (On Mist)
D1-232
D2-242
D3-344
D5-1061
D6-755
D7-813
3447
Cycle 2
D1-232
D2-242
D3-344
D5-1061 (5326:End Mist)
D6-755 (-6550=-1224 )
D7-813
Net Gain:344CR, 80CE (5240)
---------------------------
6894cr (2 Cycles)
-7860cr (120 Energy)
---------
-966
Death 1 - 131cr
Death 2 - 262cr
Death 3 - 524cr
No Danger Rooms (often results in death to newbies, didn't see one anyway)
All breakables opened
No mats sold (players that either 1) need those mats for crafting or 2) Dislike using or don't understand the AH
As you can see, completely F2P players are essentially relegated to 2 cycles a day. Any attempt to run more is a net decrease in CR.
While I understand that the AH is a potentially good source for extra CR, I don't believe it's fair that it should be a requirement. Nor do I think it fair that the average 8-12 year old has to have a high school class in economics to understand why he can't play his 'free' game without losing money.
Tue, 06/07/2011 - 17:10
#11
Well
ohgodmyhead wrote:
Nor do I think it fair that the average 8-12 year old has to have a high school class in economics to understand why he can't play his 'free' game without losing money.
Terms of Service states:
2. Age Requirement
You must be at least thirteen (13) years of age to use Spiral Knights. You represent, warrant and covenant that you meet this age requirement.
Still, if the average new player is 8-12 years old, this explains a lot about both the forums lately and even more so the town square. But they aren't supposed to be here, and are in breach of contract, and should be banned rather than having the game dumbed down to cater to them.
Tue, 06/07/2011 - 17:14
#12
I am forming a coalition of
I am forming a coalition of players who are willing to dedicate their time and resources to manage the market for a fair ce / cr exchange.
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/10694
Please post here or talk to me in game Captain-Teemo for more details.
I believe that as an unorganized group, the general player base will simply succumb to the forces that exploit our market, but through an organized effort of even a few ppl we can impact our economy on the same level they can. We are not asking any CE or USD investments to begin, simply that you are willing to dedicate some time and resources to this project.
Please read the thread for more details: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/10694
Tue, 06/07/2011 - 17:29
#13
Ok
@Shosuko first of thanks for hijacking my thread!
Lol, just kidding. While you could have posted the contents of that thread here, instead of creating a nearly identical one. I really don't care. If one thread is more popular than the other and we can actually get this done, whatever. I have sent you a friend request, and will add a link to your thread in the first post of this thread.
Tue, 06/07/2011 - 17:39
#14
solution:
Don't make offers
solution:
Don't make offers to buy CE for the current price that it is, if everybody remove's their bids then prices would fall instantly, then the buyers would have the upper hand on dictating terms.
We the players and crown spending CE buyers must be in contact with one another to organize such a boycott and in effect kill the buyers market for CE. This would in effect 're-start' the market, would it not?
If the buying side of the market said,,
hold on we dont wana buy your energy for 6000+ crowns, 'everyone removes bids'.
The new bid price would be 0 (zero) in effect having no buying bids.
Then the sellers would have to reduce their prices to coincide with the price buyers want to buy energy for,
In effect returning the CE market to 'normal'.
Tue, 06/07/2011 - 17:44
#15
Sure
@xStaticDonut sure that would indeed work. The idea of this thread is to see how many people are willing to do this kind of thing. We could all sign on and post in trade to stop buying/selling energy in the market. Stuff like that.
Tue, 06/07/2011 - 17:51
#16
@SConnery it would need to be
@SConnery it would need to be more than just the forum readers to influence such a movement, but if the word can be spread far enough then it would have a very very very large impact. Although one downside could be:
That people who are controlling the high end CE market selling prices could in effect create walls on the buying side,
This would keep the buying side's prices very high even though nobody else is 'buying' CE in effect keeping prices high.
This being said why doesn't each player have a limit of 10 or 20 'ACTIVE' trades at one time to help reduce the blow.
So you have a maximum of 20 trades to buy, 20 trades to sell or any combination of 20trades between the buying and selling
This would minimize walls, since the top players couldn't post 100+ CE walls, and it would negate the effect of selling 100CE (bids) and then re-buying 100 more.
This is all just things i have thought in my head. sorry if i copied anyone's ideas.
Tue, 06/07/2011 - 21:10
#17
Market influence - a buyer too many
While removing offers for CE in an attempt to reduce the overall market, this would require the entire community's involvement. Not just the forumers, but casual players alike.
The idea is good, yes, but our chances to pull off a stunt like this is nill. The reason why is because the word would have to reach each and every player. A couple hundred players alone cannot make the difference of the hundreds that are fighting to get their next 100 CE, and I can already predict that some of them won't care enough until they have their CE in hand in which the damage has already been done. I would really like to help out with this, but my point is that we basically need everyone's involvement and this is far more complicated than need be. The casual player won't read the forums to look for a solution to the market manipulation, they'll accept it and make the money they need and put it up for offer. Without reaching these players, even if we stop bidding for energy, there are too many others in need for it to make a difference in the market.
The only "solution" that comes to mind is a massive CE offering, going way under the current market price, and enough to override the already existing bids as well as selling offers. This would however result in said sellers to lose a good deal of profit, and the quantity of sellers and CE distributed must be enough to drag down all the higher bids to a certain extent. For this we would need to gather a massive amount of people willing to give large amounts of CE for a much lower price than the current market. How this would actually affect the market, I do not know.
I am all for lowering the energy market to a respectable price where Tier 1-players stand a chance to earn the pure crowns with their ME to buy CE for armour-upgrade and/or more Clockwork runs. The main issue is finding a good enough a method to influence the market to drop to these numbers.
I am afraid I don't know enough about economy to bring any real suggestions to the table, but I would like to voice that I want to see a market that won't discourage new players into instantly purchasing CE for real money or just quitting the game because they find it too restricting and not being able to make enough crowns to play and being forced to stop.
Tue, 06/07/2011 - 21:28
#18
@shidara At a certain point i
@shidara At a certain point i believe that the amount/number of offers for CE to be bought ( the offer side, left hand side) will drop off, since everybody is competing to gain their 100CE first or to be the top of the pile.
As i have seen to be the case from my observations, i believe it will be much like the selling side of the CE market, once the market progresses about 100 Cr above the current offer. eg: 100CE for 6100 cr, then it jumps to say 100CE for 6200Cr the resulting offers above the 6200cr is like, 6300, 6600, 7000 since players dont have bids in waiting.
So if a large enough push from rich enough players were able to drive down prices effectively it could keep the market down for a period of time... and, lets say for argument sake, the prices drop to half of what they are currently Eg: the prices are 7000cr per 100.
If we worked together the actual losses for people who sell off all their energy could be negated, since if i have 10k CE i could sell it all off for 700K Cr, Then the other play will buy out 10K worth of CE driving the prices to 3500Cr per 100CE.
The player who sold up at the 'peak' would have 700KCr and buying 10KCE is only 350KCr per 10KCE in effect getting all of their 10Kce bakc and the player who drove prices down also..... to give them their 10KCE.
This would create a wall at the 3500Cr mark of 1000Bids.....
But the flip side, we would need a separate team of sellers selling at the lower price to then make a wall so that prices dont instantly jump back to the 6000cr per 100 mark,,
Hopefully that makes sense... and that everybody understands... this could work.. if my math and ideas work hahahaha.....
Wed, 06/08/2011 - 07:56
#19
That's it
That's what I had in mind, but it would require a lot of people to do so. The tricky part is to have everyone co-operate with us.
If we could actually pull something like this off we would be able to make the market newbie-friendly again, which is how it should be.
Wed, 06/08/2011 - 10:26
#20
40k CE
There is another forum user who is, im guessing, quitting. He is offering 40k CE to whoever comes up with a solution (plus any other resources he has). If we can convince him that we are for real that will be huge. What we would do is all log on at the same time, then you would all sell your energy for crowns. Then when you all finished I would use the energy I gained from him, and my own personal stash, and buy out the remaining 400+ bids to sell energy. Then I would take my newly 240,000,000 crowns and buy out as many offers to buy energy as I could. Once I was done you would all buy energy for a profit. Then we could rinse and repeat as needed. Once we get to the point we feel we are done, I would put a good sum of CE on the market at a reduced cost. And put a good sum of Crowns on the market at a good cost.
Its basically a market reset done by the community.
Wed, 06/08/2011 - 12:05
#21
Hard to make a dent
I am not going to come in here and bash you or tell you that you are wrong. I would just like to say that a group of people trying to lower the CE is what it will take to lower the cost, however it might not stay that way for long. I have tried a few times to "artificially" lower the price with my fortune with what came out to be about 60,000 CE or 3.5 million crowns (not 240M). The price didn't stay at the lowered level for more than a few hours, because I not only hit large walls of bids that I couldn't overcome alone, but people also remembered where energy was at so-and-so price previous to my manipulation.
The main reason the price is at the way it is right now is because there are far more energy buyers than there are energy sellers. Energy is the coveted resource because it is versatile/useful, it appreciates with age, and it is becoming a rarer commodity. This might be a step in the right direction, but prepared to hit a lot resistance from the community itself and realize that your resources pooled are just a drop of water in an ocean of players. Also, people really don't undercut each other to sell CE as much as they overbid each other to buy CE.
Wed, 06/08/2011 - 12:11
#22
@Senshi :P Fair enough. Even
@Senshi :P Fair enough. Even so, though, I'd say economy's not among most players first picks for classes in high school :P. I know I never took a class like that, I just sorta picked stuff up as a I went along.
Spiral Knights does LOOK like a game a younger person would enjoy, I wouldn't be surprised if there were more younger people on than the ToS was, ah, hoping to prevent.
Wed, 06/08/2011 - 12:46
#23
@Sinxeno
This is why we would need a lot of people. Even though you attempted to lower the price on your own, the fact that there were no-one else helping out was not enough for you to overwhelm the hefty prices. Like xStaticDonut said, we would not only need to sell enough CE to remove all the bids, but also make a new wall that is lower than the current wall. For this we would need to sell enough CE to remove all the offers to the point we're beyond our goal, and then set up a new wall which will become our target.
So in order for a market manipulation like this to work, we would need to saturate all the bids and erase the previous auctions completely from the selling side. It would require excellent timing and organizing to put this into action, though, and I believe this is what makes this so hard to perform.
Wed, 06/08/2011 - 13:03
#24
Let's see if I've got this
Let's see if I've got this right...
To manipulate the price downward, you'd need to start off with very, very large amounts of CE.
Then you need to reduce the buying side's prices, by filling all their orders. So you open the trade tab, go to where it says "Need Crowns?" And click the hell out of that button for several minutes.
Then, you visit the Market section, and with another heaping pile of CE, place a mountain of sell-CE-for-Crowns offers on the right side to match the new deflated price... for at least ten different very close price points surrounding your primary wall, so nobody can even see the old high prices.
It is doubtful that one person has enough CE to pull this off. I guess that's why you need several people doing it at once in a concerted effort.
And, of course, there is no guarantee that the new prices will stick.
Wed, 06/08/2011 - 14:58
#25
Yes it will
Yes this is bigger than just one person, and yes, there isnt enough energy. But the more people we have the better. If you managed to drop it by yourself with 60k, what would have happened if someone else had as much. I dont understand why people dont just let it go down. The profit will still be the same for people playing the market.
Wed, 06/08/2011 - 15:28
#26
My $0.02
The "problem" (if you view it as one) is twofold:
1) The energy market has a fairly large amount of inertia, and once it sits down at a new high, it tends to stay put until some rich guy tries to kick it in one direction or the other. The new recent highs demonstrate that- a couple of rich, bored players pushed the market up, and it has stayed high since.
2) The natural equilibrium of the energy market is somewhere just under what the average player is able to earn from using 100 energy in the Clockworks. Note that I say average, not median. The relatively smaller percentage of T3 players are raising that average by quite a bit, so what happens is that the majority of players (mostly newer folks) are left in the dust because they simply can't raise 70+ crowns for each CE they spend, and are thus restricted to mist (or forced to purchase with $). It is this latter point that is crucial- richer, geared out players earn more crowns for the CE they spend. It doesn't take a genius to see what this leads to.
Is it a "problem" like the OP says it is? Maybe I'm being a cynical bastard when I say it doesn't bother me, because I only have few pieces of 5* gear left to craft and a decent bank account in game (also a F2Per here). From my point of view, games like this come and go- if CE prices are the death of SK, so be it; I have plenty of things to occupy my time with, including healthier options like going for a bike ride. I've had many enjoyable hours of gameplay, and look forward to many more, but if that doesn't happen then I have no regrets either. Props to TRD for making a great game, and here's to hoping they'll think of a way to keep it alive.
Wed, 06/08/2011 - 16:00
#27
this whole CE thing is
this whole CE thing is getting too complex... I'll just sit on my mist energy and play other games for now...
Mon, 06/27/2011 - 09:44
#28
OP, you can't "wall" prices
OP, you can't "wall" prices downward. As soon as you try you'll instantly be liquidated as people simply turn your stock over for a profit. The system is at its own equilibrium. Unless you do something to disrupt the cause of the equilibrium any money that you dump into the market is just going to shoot out the other side. It's possible to artificially deflate a market like you're talking about but it's gonna take a whole lot more than 40k for a market this size.
Mon, 06/27/2011 - 11:31
#29
Heres a thought from reading this thread
As it was mentioned before, we need to combine our efforts. ALL the players in game need to pull their bids for buying CE from the market and reset the prices to a lower amount.
Now as it was mentioned the only way to do this is to spread the word, well just like for other things, and other "revolts" if you will, lets plan a day and time to do this. Lets make it a 24 hour block of time where NO bids to purchase CE go into the market. This gives us time to spread the word to all the people that do not read these forums (newbies for example).
This day and time window will also cover the various time zones in which we all live in, and even anyone overseas will see the market change.
I propose it be 1 month from now, so that we have time to spread the word, starting at 9am EST and run till 9am EST the next day. Lets make it July 27th 2011 till July 28th 2011. Unless someone has a better date in mind?
Just my thoughts and 2 cents on how to reset the market. There's lots of good plans out there, but most are more complex, this is simple, easy, and its a word of mouth thing. If it fails, then we learn something, if it works, we learn something else.
Flynn
Mon, 06/27/2011 - 11:48
#30
Again?
Buyers cannot 'take control' of the market like this. You are asking for players to not buy CE above a certain price - that means -not buying CE- indefinitely. This is not going to happen - players that want to keep running and can afford it, are going to buy CE, they are not going to hold off in order to bring the price down for others. Players that want to craft are going to buy CE, they are not going to put off crafting indefinitely in the hopes that they can buy CE at a lower price someday. Players that want to ragecraft and auction off UVs are going to laugh at the very notion of putting off buying CE for any time at all - they're turning that CE around into a profit as long as their materials hold out.
When players are frustrated enough with the crown/CE ratio, they will run on mist only, ragecraft less as it becomes less or not profitable, plan personal crafting carefully and not wildly experiment with any 5* line that catches their eye, or possibly quit the game. All of these things happened when CE was over 7k, and will happen again when CE goes over 7k again (at which point the rise in CE price will slow because people are actually using less CE). The only thing that is going to stop history from repeating itself here is if three rings makes changes to the economy (reduced CE sinks or increased crown sinks) before then. And they should - the CE stable price should be lower than the price at which players start quitting the game because of it, and crowns should be important enough that people have an incentive to sell CE. The only reason CE is as cheap as it is now is a large influx of players buying starter packs - as those players are becoming all-UV all-5* geared T3 running players, they have no incentive to sell CE ever again and the ratio of new/old players is unlikely to beat the ratio that came from the influx that was the opening of the steamgate.
Mon, 06/27/2011 - 12:47
#31
I hit the wall yesterday
I hit the wall yesterday myself. I realized that despite my carefull upgrading and elevater running for weeks that there was no way possible for me to upgrade all my equipment that I use daily to 4 and 5 star without spending either weeks selling my daily 100 mist on the market and then buying back alot of CE at the end (without actually doing dungeon runs mind you), or plunk down about 10-20$ for CE. It just wasnt going to happen any other way and it felt a little absurd. Now for alot p2p players this wont be a big obstacle, they will see no problem forking over $60 a week to hurry things along. But a decent minority of them will have a serrious wtf moment soon.
How will this affect the market? well remember when CE was 7k per 100? I think alot of the guessing is wrong and it wont settle down to 4 or 5k in the end. Call me a pessimist but I think we will be looking at 10k-15k per 100 in a month. It just takes a few players with enough money and not a care in the world.
Mon, 06/27/2011 - 12:57
#32
LuLz
Ohhh such a newbie, I should have known better. Guess you cant sell the daily 100 mist and stockpile cash to buy it back later to upgrade your equipment. You can only do it by paying out cash per piece. For a f2p mmo this one can get pretty expensive if your not paying attention. So yea, i'll stick with level 3 and 4 equipment running JK once every day. Oh well.
Mon, 06/27/2011 - 13:20
#33
Or craft an item with your
Or craft an item with your mist energy, sell that, then use those crowns to buy CE.
Mon, 06/27/2011 - 15:06
#34
Hate to be a buzzkill, wait
Hate to be a buzzkill, wait no I don't but anyways, your never going to be able to keep the price down, no matter what you do. The vast majority of players don't read the forums.
Mon, 06/27/2011 - 15:19
#35
That would be why my suggest has a chance
Because they may not read the forums, BUT giving us a month to plan this out, and let the players know what we are planning means they dont need to read the forums at all, word of mouth is the ultimate tool to anything, whether it be marketing, planning an event (such as this), etc. It all boils down to how many people you can reach, and with us spreading the word to our guilds, our friends, our party mates, we can easily spread it well enough that we can make a movement.
Now, if we don't think it will help then that is a different story, but if we think that this plan will help, then why not give it a shot?
Unless we have another simple to execute plan we can make happen?
Flynn
Mon, 06/27/2011 - 15:25
#36
Selling CE for cheap is only
Selling CE for cheap is only a temporary fix. The prices will just go back up. See, the problem is, people may sell for cheap, but those offers will be bought up very quickly. The amount of people buying low is much higher than the amount selling low. And eventually, the people who are selling low, will be buying back their energy, thus increasing the price again. Most people don't use real money as their primary source of CE, they use crowns.
As far as helping individual lower knights progress. This will only bring in more people buying energy with crowns. Thus increasing demand, and also prices.
Most fixes are only temporary. The only permanent fix, would be a "set" price on energy. Three Rings wont do this, because then they lose money. If prices go sky high, players wont have much choice but to buy CE with money, rather than crowns. If all of SK had an agreed upon price, where we ALWAYS buy and sell, then that would work, but it may take a lot longer to fulfill all the Energy orders, or vice versa.
Mon, 06/27/2011 - 15:44
#37
I have tried a few times to
I have tried a few times to "artificially" lower the price with my fortune with what came out to be about 60,000 CE or 3.5 million crowns (not 240M). The price didn't stay at the lowered level for more than a few hours
BWHAHAHAHA!
You thought you could have a impact with only 60k CE? Come on, think about it. 60k CE is only $150. If OOO isn't sinking *WAY* more than $150/hr, you better play your fill of SK quick, because it won't last long.
My guess is that you would need to sink at least 600k CE or 6M CE to have any impact over a day.
But the, people still think 100 lots of CE is a "wall".
Mon, 06/27/2011 - 15:48
#38
... Can't we complain about
... Can't we complain about something else for once?
Mon, 06/27/2011 - 16:25
#39
Please stop making these threads
We've well established that nobody wants to buy CE at an inflated price. For some reason, many forget that nobody wants to sell CE at a reduced price. Everybody wants as much as they can for what they have. It's inextricable human nature and you will fail in trying to work against it.
More crowns are generated every day than CE is bought. New players are joining at a much higher rate than players are leaving. The supply of CE diminishes every time you craft something. I'm no economist but I think as a general trend, CE is going to keep increasing in price until it reaches equilibrium (if that). If you're not OK with that, you will honestly just have to deal with it.
You will not convince people by whining throughout zone channels and creating a new forum topic every few weeks.
I apologize for the negative tone, but seriously, there's nothing you can do to affect the laws of supply and demand.
It's definitely not crazy, the thing here is that those people creating walls are selfish people while those who wants to play for that day will keep buying ce no matter what.