Coalition for Fair Market Trade (ce/cr)
Tue, 06/07/2011 - 16:41
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/10165
This thread caught my attention and has had me thinking about our current CE problem...
Most of the suggestions in this thread detail what OOO can do to counter players who are manipulating the market causing the CE to skyrocket in price. While it is great to look for solutions OOO could use, I feel they may not be as concerned as we are with this "problem." Further I believe that we, as players, have the power to compete against those who seek to drive up the prices. They are, after all, players. They are simply playing the game a different way.
I propose those against the current CE trend join forces to combat these higher prices. I believe it is something we can fight, with the same means they do. Manipulation of the market, in the favor of a balanced and mutually profitable ce - cr exchange.
This system has several goals -
1 - This system shall be designed to work purely on the value of CR and CE, independent of outside forces or requirement. It will need not ce or cr sink, it will simply act on the perceptions of the players using the market.
2 - This system shall be profitable. It will seek to be self sufficient and self perpetuating. In fact it will work in many ways identical to those who have manipulated our market to it's current position. The difference is that we are not motivated by greed, and will seek to control prices, not inflate them.
3 - Bring players together who genuinely care about the player base. I believe which this coalition we should also sponsor a "newbie guild" which seeks to discourage begging by working with new players to obtain their goals through their own efforts.
4 - Explore the full economy of Spiral Knights, diving, crafting, auctions, materials, as well as cr to ce transactions to better illustrate to players and OOO how this economy works and can be improved.
If you would like to join this coalition, post in this thread or contact me in game - Captain-Teemo for further details.
There are no CE or USD requirements to join this coalition, but we are looking for players who will dedicate their time and resources to establish and maintain this venture. Investing players WILL be paid off of the profits of this venture, and a full booking of all transactions of this group will be kept for record.
Tue, 06/07/2011 - 17:17
#2
Are you sure the CE prices
Are you sure the CE prices are player driven?
Tue, 06/07/2011 - 17:18
#3
I Endorse This Message.
My name is Junsei Mai and I Endorse this Message. I am willing to put my campaign finances towards a fair and just economic system. I vouch 50,000 Crowns to this Effort.
Tue, 06/07/2011 - 17:41
#4
Im in
I am, like I said in my thread, totally willing to work with other players on this. I have added a possible solution to my thread.
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/10662
I also added a link to your thread in the first post of my thread. I hope we can figure something out. While players farther along in the game are not having as big of an issue, its really sad that the newer F2P players are being left in the dust. And it would also be nice to get energy cheap.
Tue, 06/07/2011 - 19:15
#5
You Got Lovestoned
I am a paying player and I find it fair to sell my ce for 6.5k to 8k Crowns per 100.
Tue, 06/07/2011 - 19:39
#6
@Njthug
Ah, but you fail to see that the general populace can't exactly make 6.5-8k off of 100 energy. Even in a very lucky Royal Jelly Palace run, that's really cutting it close to the maximum people can pay, fairly- that's cutting out 'wasted' energy, as well, for revives. The materials found in RJP don't sell for much at all, because of how many people run it for the heat and crowns-a Rocky Core, a 4* material, sells for lower than a hundred crowns. The way I see it, you're saying it's fair that only the people with great equipment can play as much as they want, that only the people that can run through Firestorm Citadel can play.
When new players get into the game, they can't play as much as they want without paying, because they can't make enough crowns to pay for more energy. Why? Because people have raised the CE prices too high.
In a nutshell, CE prices are too high, new players can't actually get into the game freely, leading to people being less likely to want to stick around.
Either there needs to be more crown sinks, less CE sinks (or toned down CE costs in crafting), or people need to stop being greedy and selfish. Since people are making walls of offers, it's ruining the game for many other people, just for their profit... which defeats the point of a game-for fun, entertainment, a good pass-time activity. The way this is going, people are gonna have to rely only on Mist Energy, or grind for hours to get a single piece of 4* equipment.
Tue, 06/07/2011 - 20:35
#7
Hello - Martin Solveig
So, to help out new players paying players should spend real money and sell ce for a low price because other players do not wish or are not able to wait 24 hours to come on and get 100 me? Now, I dont know which side is being more greedy...Is it the players who do not pay for ce with real money, but yet will complain it cost, so much, or is it the paying players who may even take money from their job to pay for this Ce they desire, but wish to get their money's worth out of it and sell for a price which is fair to them? I guess another question you can ask is how much is a dollar worth to you (Paying or non-paying)? If it is not worth much to you if your non-paying I guess its easy to pay for this game, and then complaining is pointless.
These questions you can argue amongst yourself or even ask each other, and come up with your own conclusion I came up with my own conclusion.
Tue, 06/07/2011 - 20:45
#8
I think it's great some
I think it's great some people are willing to take the task to hand and curb rising energy prices, but the major issue you'll see with getting any organized movement is the newbies who do not read the forums. They will remain ignorant to most plans and will continue to take the game at face value.
Tue, 06/07/2011 - 20:45
#9
Now now Njthug - no one is
Now now Njthug - no one is hating on you for buying energy with money. Please don't derail this thread. Goes for you too Draycos.
This thread is not an argument for or against paying players. I have found that a frustration, even with paid for energy, is that you cannot consider diving (playing the game) a worthy use for energy as long as it is not sustained. This means whether I buy ce on the market, or on my credit card, I am wasting it by playing the game.
I seek to drive the market to what I see as a fair amount, which is between 4-5k per 100 ce. I seek to do this through the same means as the people who believe they should be able to drive the cost of ce up as high as they possibly can.
This is not a whine or complaint, simply a call to action. Further, as stated, I am seeking to sponsor a newbie guild which can assist new players in progressing their own characters through their own efforts. This will cut down on begging as less resources will be wasted with proper education, and players learn which options are best for their mist and ce.
I also seek to explore the entire economy of Spiral Knights, not just the ce / cr market, so that we may better understand all resources used in this game (diving, crafting, mat sales, ect)
Tue, 06/07/2011 - 21:25
#10
"people need to stop being
"people need to stop being greedy and selfish"
Come down off that high horse. I keep seeing this nonsense about CE sellers being greedy for wanting to sell their CE at a higher price. Well, guess what. It's mighty greedy and selfish of you to demand that you be able to play continuously on someone else's dime, and progress quickly in the game.
How much is CE worth to you? If you had another 100CE right now, you could run the clockworks for fun and crowns. Suppose I told you you should instead sell it to me for less than you'd make running the clockworks (whatever amount that might be)? You'd end up with less crowns and less play time than if you ran the clockworks. I'd get more crowns and more play time. Would that be cool with you? Maybe, if you need the cash quickly. But how much is that convenience worth to you? Do I have the right to tell you what it's worth?
Tue, 06/07/2011 - 21:47
#11
i think people are missing
i think people are missing the point..... CE is used for runs and crafting.. if the prices get too high then people will only be able to run, so then the game will become a P2P game not a F2P game.
Yes there is mist energy but if 100CE becomes the price u earn from running 15-16 of JK 10times, then you will earn 100CE per 24hrs of mist, thus making almost no profit.. and selling mats would become super competitive and everyone would make almost no money there either.
/Argument.
Wed, 06/08/2011 - 00:13
#12
"i think people are missing
"i think people are missing the point..... CE is used for runs and crafting.. if the prices get too high then people will only be able to run, so then the game will become a P2P game not a F2P game."
What kind of point is that. it's not unheard of that f2p games have content exclusively available to paying players. And even then, no one is stopping you from saving up CE you made from ME here.
as for your OTHER point, that the game has bad issues with crownsinks/crowndrops/item droprates, well that's true. OOO should do something about it or crowns, mats, any tradeable item, will just become worthless in the long run. Throwing (your) money at the problem won't fix it. (it'll help people NOW though, which is really nice)
And while there's player manipulation, it doesn't amount to more than resets of currently established price. Anyone with some 50-100 positions can do that when the demand situation for crowns:ce is out of propotion.
Wed, 06/08/2011 - 00:29
#13
@Anyone who thinks things are
@Anyone who thinks things are "FINE"
I have already said once before you don't get to charge just w/e the hay you want to for it. You have to be FAIR, about it. Your stupidly high prices and manipulating of the market hurt the game overall, KNOCK IT OFF.
Wed, 06/08/2011 - 01:12
#14
@The annoyance known as
@The annoyance known as GodofSkype1
I have already said that you don't get to dictate the morals of others. Anyone who decides to manipulate the market to their will is within their right as a player. There is no reason people "have to be fair." None. They're playing the game just as well as anyone delving into the Clockworks.
Wed, 06/08/2011 - 01:47
#15
@ Everyone charging high
@ Everyone charging high prices.....
Eventually there will be an equilibrium of cost of 100 CE = amount of Cr made from 100 CE and when that day comes..... the CE market will die..... and hopefully you see it in your hearts to lower prices :D
/the stupidity.
Wed, 06/08/2011 - 02:33
#16
the demand for CE via crowns
the demand for CE via crowns will gradually fall the less people deem it affordable (these people then stop playing on CE or purchase it with $). for some people that's at 6k for some that's at 8k, etc. (and more people will be willed to sell at these prices) when demand for CE and demand for Crowns are at equilibrium the price will remain constant.
Of course demand for crowns will continually fall if there's no new players (cause the old players all can farm jelly king and don't need the crowns for recipes).
And it'll rise if there's many new players.
New players=can't farm crowns efficiently+need recipes
edit: simply put, there's no crown sink that'd make crowns valuable without new players. Personally, I'm glad there are still enough new/growing players that CE price isnt at 20k or something. But I'd prefer more new players and/or more crownsinks.
Wed, 06/08/2011 - 02:47
#17
@TiVVV34
Personally, I'm glad there are still enough new/growing players that CE price isnt at 20k or something.
And for those of you who think it can't happen: it already has at one point and can again.
Wed, 06/08/2011 - 03:23
#18
I like the idea
I like it, but i sincerely fail to see how this would fix the issue. There are SO many people needing CE, i fear that if you guys try this you will have a boatlaod of crowns and very little CE, and if you want CE you'll end up having to buy it back for more than you sold it for. Plus, as soon as you start buying it back, the price is going to go right back up.
I guess what i am saying is that the priced has already been fixed with false bid. I don't see how selling more energy is going to fix the problem. Also as soon as the price starts dropping people will start buying and then price will stop decreasing :(
Wed, 06/08/2011 - 06:48
#19
People! stop changing the topic
I've read most of the posts on this thread and I think the people are missing the point.
Whether it's fair for p2p players to sell CE for high price is obviously not what we're discussing here. Anyone talks about that is just a troll. And if any of you replies back to me to troll, I will not be replying back to you, so don't bother trying.
For the people who replied back to those trolls, do not feed the troll. If you think you can shut the trolls up with your good reasoning, you are underestimating the trolls. So don't bother. You are only helping the trolls in derailing the point of this thread.
To jeburk and anyone who thinks there really is nothing we can do, we just haven't come up with the good plan yet, and that is the point of this thread.
Thu, 08/18/2011 - 10:43
#20
1st there has to be CE manipulation
i don't believe there is a manipulation in CE prices. for that to be true, several players has to be hoarding CE and holding it and not selling it back to the market to drive prices up. i don't believe there is anybody with billions of Cr doing this; at least this is not my perception from actually watching the Cr/CE market in action.
while everybody would like cheap CE prices, the CE prices is driven by demand; whether because it is summer and people have lots of time and wants to play Spiral Knights, or that it is in general a fun game and people want to improve their characters.
If you don't want to pay alot of CE for adventuring/upgrading equip. INVEST a little of real $ for CE. DON'T spend it immediately. Take the time to LEARN how to trade and understand markets. Then trade Cr/CE for a profit to fund your expeditions and equip.
You don't want to spend 3-4h a day trading Cr/CE so you can play for free anytime you want? Then stop complaining and pay real $ for CE and play as much as you want when you want.
CE prices will naturally gravitate towards the average number of Cr you can generate off of a 100 CE run in Clockworks. FAIR price will be around the breakeven of this run. If your runs are below the cost of 100 CE, you're better off trading Cr/CE on the market to make enough for better equip. If your runs are above the cost of 100 CE, then you're better off doing the run and then buying 100 CE to do another run. Of course there is always time consideration.
Trying to dump cheap CE prices to drive down the market isn't going to work. Anybody w/ Cr will buy up the cheap CE and then sell it at the prevailing market price.
Understand supply and demand before trying to accuse market manipulation and ask for artificial pricing.
Thu, 08/18/2011 - 13:11
#21
That's cool to wait and all,
That's cool to wait and all, I guess we have to learn to wait for days to profit or risk it all for a loss. Not only that but we have to risk our own times for unforeseen consequences or if we run into a situation where we have to stay off Spiral, etc, because it takes too long to upgrade a 5 star gear, sometimes we have obligations or have to get involved with life, and it's a shame we didn't get to finish Spiral from the bad choices we make. Guess it's like saying they should take the controller away from us.
Anyway it's cool and all that they tried to mirror markets in the real world, but...the real world has way too many variables for Spiral to mimic. Most of us aren't businessman and vendors and don't order things by the bulk, hiring labor, using capital, and financing them, etc like in the real world, some of us work the dungeons for mats based on probability to sell at cheap prices for wealthy crafters making money off that who took advantage of the cheaper ce prices back then. And now you want the ce prices to be fine at 5k or more? It isn't too bad, cause you have to indirectly acknowledge in some way that there is imperfect information and not much transparency between people; I don't blame them though, I would probably keep some of my knowledge, if any, to myself, or if people I'm acquainted with or know wants me to keep their sales a secret. Because no one wants to see the prices on items affected significantly where everyone gets into it.
The thing is, there are so many choices of gear to pick that we are busy trying to upgrade rather than caring about saving some energy just to make a few grand more compared to cheaper ce prices on the trade awhile back. Not only that, but there are unforeseen consequences where you can say choose to join your friends, but you feel bad for declining to join them so many times that you feel you should join, and spend energy on doing runs with them or reviving. And yes, I am aware that there is more crowns given with more party members if indeed it is true(maybe there is a notable difference, but I'm not sure, and I haven't really seen increased gains compared to solo). So sometimes, trying to save some ce to profit just may not always have priority.
There is too much flak against those that have trouble getting energy just because the first come first serve system serves the ones that found out about mass crafting before everyone else and now they have a huge budget where they can't even spare 30 cr(not that I beg, but I'm tired of getting begged for crowns, and I have to work more for my gear than the wealthier people; those who mass crafted max or high UVS on all their stuff and show it, or who have millions of crowns; and I always look busy at the auction house). So much for probable charity on a frequent scale.
Supply and Demand is a simple concept, I've already graduated from Applied Resource Economics a few years ago(finally, though real late than needed; major changes etc), so I understand what you're saying. Whatever efforts they tried to make to simulate or integrate a market system I applaud them for. It reminds me of the stock or money market trade side games with the likes of Breath of Fire Dragon Quarter and Steambot Chronicles except it wasn't a game driven by markets on a grander scale, where many other players play as buyers/sellers to one another, and it's the core of the gameplay in Spiral Knights. But I think the interpretations and the game itself is just more simplistic than the real world(well lots of people are complaining about struggling, in their communities, and there are diverse opinions on that, etc), with energy as usual being the core component to make all things, but doesn't seem to have any strong impact on material prices, and therefore can be solely subject to manipulation. For example, you would think that higher prices would make people do dungeon runs less, and therefore there would be less mats to sell on the market, so therefore the supplies or shortage should increase the prices. But prices on some expensive mats have lowered 80% of their value and remained relatively stable for a month or more regardless of the ce price increases. There are many factors and situations where things don't fall nicely into economic theory.
Ah crap, I just went from depth 19-21(and fought a close fight in the arena, narrowly escaping death with smarter and more aggressive enemies) and got booted off in typing this. Super, time to beg for more energy for crowns at 57cr/ce and see that sellers will not sell for awhile or quicker unless I raise it to protect from changing prices(like it'll past 5800 crowns/100 ce) and start the whole thing over again.
And dang it, I only see a few recipes Basil is offering after restarting, and not the Volcanic Demo Helmet I wanted, I hope I didn't miss my chance at the run where I got booted off. Hopefully with the extra energy I bought, it comes around on the 2nd run, and that I assuming I won't get it on the first run.
Thu, 08/18/2011 - 11:29
#22
"Ah, but you fail to see that
"Ah, but you fail to see that the general populace can't exactly make 6.5-8k off of 100 energy"
Haha oh wow. I guess not everyone knows to buy recipes and sell them on the auction house. One time I bought a 4k recipe and sold it for over 8k. I have never paid a single dime in this game and if you count the recipes I am currently selling I have ~80k crowns.
People are not "manipulating prices". The reason there's a spike was because of the power surge weekend. The market regulates itself because the price will only go as high as people are willing to pay. If you don't want to buy energy for crowns then don't. And if you need energy to alchemical then buy it for real money. The real money cost will always stay the same and will not sway with the economic climate of crowns.
ITT: Let's fight the man because I'm too lazy to earn crowns.
Thu, 08/18/2011 - 11:46
#23
1st come 1st serve
the energy market does not unduly favor 1st come 1st serve. while in all scenarios of life, being 1st to spot an opportunity yields the greatest rewards; the game itself does not heavily favor those who started playing the game from the start.
i've played the game for less than 2 wks; after a small initial investment of real $; i'm essentially playing for free. While it may not mean i get 5 star equip immediately; but with a little patience, i can build my 'bankroll' in the game to afford what i want. Whether it is through shrewed trading in the energy markets or a run into the Clockworks after i've amassed enough energy in my mist tank or a combo of both.
Thu, 08/18/2011 - 13:22
#24
No one here is trolling, you
No one here is trolling, you fail to see that paying players don't want to support you lazy bumps by bringing CE prices down.
Why would I donate 10$ on CE to the marked just so YOU get a cheaper price for it?
Answer that. OOO is not putting any CE on the market, its all run by players, people that pay crowns for CE and never buy CE with money themselves are the ones causing it to be more pricey.
If YOU want to bring CE down, go buy $1,000,000 on CE and start selling them at 4k crowns per 100. Stop free riding the ones that actually support the game.
Thu, 08/18/2011 - 14:22
#25
To get back to the original
To get back to the original topic here of a proposition to create a guild/coalition of Knights for a stable energy market, what is the exact plan? How would it work? If this is for "fair trade CE", how will it be profitable? Shosuko, please give us your project design for this coalition in the forums and, if possible, PM me in-game (IGN: Golgomath). If this seems to be a good idea and well planned, I would be willing to help with this.
Also, in regard to the thread that Shosuko references in the original post, I posted an essay that Sinxeno apparently liked enough for me to place in the top 5 and gave me immense resources in the regard to Crowns and gear. I thought I would never see that thread again lol.
Thu, 08/18/2011 - 15:13
#26
What's your plan, an embargo?
Prices will be high so long as people are willing to pay – I think anyone who understands basic market forces should know that at this point. A CE seller has no reason to sell lower prices than what's currently going. Well, that's not true. Someone who wants crowns right away should undercut the competition by 5-10 crowns, and he'll sell quicker. Otherwise, no rational person is going to look at the market and think "Oh, prices are 6K right now. I would hate to pay 6K. I should sell for 4." Not when every other seller is going for 6. It is selfish, but only in the way that all economic actions are selfish. You usually don't sell to others as a way to be nice.
Anyways. I believe the intent was to come up with a plan to your guild thing. Here are two solutions:
There are only two ways you could affect the market. You could buy a ton of CE and then sell it at 4-5K, which will push all higher offers off of the market screen so long as your low offers are available. If you had enough CE to keep this up for a day or so other sellers would realize they had to lower their price in order to sell, which might affect the market for a while and achieve your goal. This would require you to stockpile a LOT of CE though. You could achieve that by stockpiling crowns, buying CE, and then selling at a loss, but since this would wast a lot of your crowns I feel like it's self-defeating. You could also buy with real money, but since your whole goal is to avoid that I don't see a ton of people signing on for it.
Also, this would constitute market-manipulation, and is probably less ethical then what some people see sellers doing right now. It would also decrease the amount of sellers on the market, because some paying players would decide that that number of crowns wouldn't be worth their dollar, so they'd wait for prices to go back up. So it would only be short term fix.
You also could try price-setting via an embargo. People do this in real life, sometimes. You would need everyone in your coalition to temporarily stop buying CE. If you have enough people on board you could affect demand enough that sellers would be forced to lower prices. The problem is, as soon as prices go down, people in your coalition will probably act in their self-interest – this isn't a knock on players, that's just how economies work, by self-interest – and there would be a rush on CE, instantly driving it back up. You would have to carefully manage your actions to get this to work in the long run.
I suppose there's third option, also seen in the real world; get the 'government' (OOO) to price set. They could set up a price ceiling – always a bad idea – or they could try to regulate the supply of CE and Crowns via CE sales, surge weekends, and how much CE it takes to craft, etc. This would probably be your best option, if you got enough people to email OOO and petition. However, keep in mind that as a non-paying player you have a lot less clout than a paying player – OOO would much rather not piss their money-makers off because then they go out of business.
Those are really your only options. Morality aside (and I'm a laissez-faire guy, myself) there isn't really any other way you can affect the market.
Mon, 08/22/2011 - 06:57
#27
No. Price ceilings = less
No. Price ceilings = less profit for OOO. They won't do it. A set exchange price would also mean less profit, unless it was set ridiculously high.
The average CE consumer will always consume more than you can supply. You're working for a lost cause. This plan has 0 probability of working in the long term. Sorry for being a pessimist, but...
--------------------------END THREAD---------------------------------------------------------------
Mon, 08/22/2011 - 07:00
#28
Last word:
People ARE
Last word:
People ARE manipulating CE prices, driving them higher and higher during set timeframes (e.g. lunchtime in eastern time). I'll leave you to figure that one out.
Mon, 08/22/2011 - 07:20
#29
Dont blame them
Well dont blame them who are driving it higher... hate them... but dont blame them... They did spend their own real money on energy after all... so no one has the right to blame any of them if they want to drive it higher.
P.s if you want to lower CE prices the easiest way is to post buy energy offers.. and not hit Buy energy now... Post them as low as possible, if the whole SK community agrees to doing this prices will plummet seeing you cant sell it and have to lower your prices to sell
Mon, 08/22/2011 - 10:16
#30
lol - if u want energy prices to drop
convince people not to spend CE. if you can do that, i guarantee you CE prices will drop.
but good luck with that. As long as people enjoy the game and willing to craft and go spelunkering into the Clockworks, people will need energy. if people want to spend more than their mist tanks, there will be a demand for CE.
Mon, 08/22/2011 - 14:57
#31
Offering CE at lower prices
Offering CE at lower prices would cost crowns, but there are other ways of making crowns. Looking for clockworks with treasure rooms for instance for those players who are not yet geared for taking on the bosses, or buying rare recipes and reselling them for a profit as a previous post suggested. So if enough players got behind such an effort there would be ways to fund it via in game effort. But those noble souls would be eating a loss for others gain, others who probably would not show much in the way of gratitude. You burn out quick doing stuff like that. And with you being up against not only the price gougers but also those who either dont know better or just dont care, any headway you make will only be temporary.
I wouldnt worry about it too much though. Setting aside the paying players who can get CE more cost effectively than the exchange, those that price CE higher than free players can make in a 100ME run will just end up eating the posting fee when their offer doesnt sell.
Mon, 08/22/2011 - 16:11
#32
What posting fee?
It's not like the Auction House, there is no time limit, the only fee is 2% of the price when you sell. I could put up an offer to sell 100 CE @ 20kcr and leave it there for a week, a month or even a year (assuming SK is still going) and it doesn't cost me a crown.
Mon, 08/22/2011 - 17:17
#33
@souron
>>The problem is, as
@souron
>>The problem is, as soon as prices go down, people in your coalition will probably act in their self-interest – this isn't a knock on players, that's just how economies work, by self-interest – and there would be a rush on CE, instantly driving it back up.
Shosuko, following this, I just want to let you know, I support what you're doing, but I'm a total scab. Sure I'd prefer lower energy prices, so I'll support any significant effort to lower them, but I'll basically pay whatever the market price is whenever I can afford it.
OOO does push the economy one way or another, and by the rhythm of the last couple of months, I'm pretty sure they're happy with how things are going. The fiscal and monetary policy knobs are pretty obvious. There are crown fountains and crown sinks; there are energy prices and energy sinks; and there is a market-driven exchange between the two.
Mon, 08/22/2011 - 17:35
#34
its not a very realistic goal
even if u wanted to get the prices as low or "fair" as possible (which would be nice), its never going to stay that way. typical economics is always varying, whether good or bad for the paying/nonpaying. this forum is pretty much a wasted effort because:
A)if the paying players bring it up too much, theres no point in playing the game
B)if the "fair players" bring it down too low... its going to make it a pointless game... i dont like rpg's that u can finish in a day...
C)this forum is bringing out a lot of arguements that are pointless because the idea of getting ppl to pay money and not use it is unrealistic and absurd
i think this forum has touched on the same point time-and-time-too-many. i think its well established that its a lost cause so,
@Shosuko stop ur overly-sophisticated rant
Thu, 09/08/2011 - 19:41
#35
The main problem
Essentially (and bear in mind I'm not an economist... not even close! :p), the main problem, summarized in a few words is this:
The ONLY source for CE is real-world trading. The moment that enough players start buying CE with CR, then the whole thing crashes. The problem is that there is no possible way to get CE other than paying real world money... and it's not cheap!
I am very disappointed in supposedly "f2p" games that end up needing real money in order to get anywhere. Spiral Knights has a good system of mist energy, but I think that a chance of getting a CE drop once in a while, just enough to deflate the market, would be nice.
After all, isn't the point of buying CE to use it up? Not sell it? Just don't start hoarding it until there's another source!
Sat, 09/10/2011 - 19:08
#36
who drives up CE Prices?
as someone correctly stated it is the F2P that drive the prices up; not the P2P players. in fact, while counter intuitive, the P2P are the ones who actually pressures CE Prices downwards. It is the F2P that pressures the price upwards.
Given to craft beyond lvl 2 items you need to expend CE. Delving more than 10 lvls a day expends CE. These activities take CE out of the supply.
Players who partake in these activties are the ones demanding CE and removing it from the total supply of CE. (this drives up CE prices)
P2P are the ones who reintroduces CE and hence increase supply of CE. (this pushes CE prices down)
this is very very basic economics.
P2P players who don't want to convert CE into Cr by delving into the clockworks sell it on the market. The more they need or want Cr the lower the price they are willing to sell CE.
Conversely, players requiring CE because they've expended their supply will demand CE. The more desperate they are for CE the higher the price they are willing to pay.
Sat, 09/10/2011 - 20:42
#37
Guys ce prices are normal
Guys ce prices are normal now. 5.5k now. The raise of ce price was because of power surge.took awhile to become normal.Maybe a few more days it will be back to just 5k
Sun, 09/11/2011 - 04:07
#38
anybody who thinks CE prices now are 'normal' is clueless
to consider CE prices are normal now; CE prices had to be artificially inflated. however, this is not true. in fact, if you understand market forces, it is quite the opposite. why are CE prices artificially and temporarily low? rose regalia redux is encouraging players to purchase at least $9.95 worth of energy. this means players were picking up at least 3500 CE with each purchase. CE purchasers are selling CE on the market to get Cr for UVs, recipes, etc.
I would love to help, but I doubt I can do all that much since I only got 2* gears and only play twice a week, my IGN is Lorddarkness.