May 13 Update - Discussion

Today's release notes can be found here: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/109725

This update has been released on my birthday! Thanks OOO for the gift. :3

Note that this time they didn't release the names or some information about the missions.
We'll have to find out ourselves...

Can't wait to start new mission this is gonna be awesome

THAT WAS AWESOME!!!
Good cliifhanger btw. Can't wait for the final battle.
The difficulty was also 1000x times higher than all other missions. Really challenging, cost me some sparks.

Awesomesauce. Waiting for the next update will be so hard

OMG WHY DO I HAVE TO GO TO COLLEGE TODAY! NNNNNGGGHH *than again, I should learn more about JS so I can make a game.. ;) Cannot wait to play these missions!

This was a beautiful update, seriously thank you all for making these new missions, and as well for adding some cool story to the core!
Keep up being awesome! :D

Love the new misions great ending thank keep up the good work

Awesome stuff thanks Team Three Rings.

Found a bug, literally
In newfsc greenstone bridge scarabs can sometimes get past the mist walls

the last arena in dreams and nightmares is too dam long. cut the first one-two waves.
obligatory: the sleeper has awakned!

This is a joke, right?
The 4 year old Spiral Knight MacGuffin opens, but for such a significant event, all you get is NPC's telling you it opens; no cinematic sequence, no magic elevator ride to bridge the gap between the clockworks and the mysterious new world, and the only notable visual effect (the swarm eye) is cropped out by the letterboxing! And suddenly you just appear inside the core like any other level - at least the Apocrea event has you being kidnapped by sinister forces, here it's as trivial as flicking a switch.
New tilesets and soundtrack aside, the core maps are kinda dull.. the problem being mobs don't drop loot so for the most part, it's a speedrunners avoid-em-up. If you adapt yourself to steamroll your way through the arena sections it might become the new FSC for crystal farming, but you get pathetic income for everything else. I became a 5* killing machine for this?
At least the FSC remix cuts down the 8 sprite rooms to fairly linear 4, this was always a horribly tedious map, it has a proper flow and directionality now.
The Herex boss fight is a bit iffy - Herex himself is just a bullet sponge Ghostmane stalker; I don't understand why the robots are poisonous, is it because they needed to color match Herex or to degrade the performance of poison shadow weapons while fighting the gremlins?
Will there be rank missions 10-3 and 10-4, or will it jump straight to 11? I guess we'll find out in another 4 months; If it's 2 more mission layers before 11, then I suppose we'll have to wait until next January to see if stratum 7 is officially confirmed.

I was brought along for the ride for these missions and I must say, after playing in the preview all the way to this, it's amazing how far this game has come. I happily wait for more of your amazing work, Three Rings.
PS: Bring back silly shark Helmets

Herex is related with poison construct/monsters because the Compound 42 mission.
I just missed some Toxoils in the final battle with him, that should fit better than Blech Bunnies.
@Exerpa give them time, they probably revamped these levels in the future like the Crash Site or the Sputterspark missions.

I had a lot of fun with the missions. I've been inactive lately, but these brought me back for a bit. I wasn't entire happy to go through the purified FSC, but that is mostly just because I naturally avoid that place. There was a lot of differences though, way more than I expected. That mix between Almirian Crusaders and a floor half made of lava is a pain to do though. It was nice to finally battle Herex. I really wish I could have finished him off then and there, and he was surprisingly easy. Leave it to a Gremlin to amass a legion of minions with higher kill power than himself...
Dreams and Nightmares is now my favorite mission. And not just because of the Radiants. The environment is beautiful and fighting the invading swarm in the Core alongside Vaelyn (a surprisingly useful NPC) was pretty climatic. I will say the ending was a little boring and a tiny bit of a let down, as it basically is just saying "nope, can't let you leave, we need to stay here forever and defend the Sleeper, someone you have no clue what or who it even is!" But still a very fun mission. I also loved the music in it. I heard it on YouTube before but could never figure out where exactly it played.
I'm expecting some future missions, unless Kora is a troll I hear that she has some more missions lined up for us. I wonder how the Order will react when they hear that three people decided the fate of all Knights to protect the Core. Hmm... now that I think about it, is the Swarm a living, cloning, corrupting, and sentient black hole?

Great way to continue the story! With MMOs it's pretty important to have cliffhangers and I feel that you all have done a great job with that. I also like what you've done with the levels, new assets and all. Great usage of the new friendly AI too! Perhaps in the future we'll be seeing the remaining alpha squad fighting with us.
Final battle is pretty intense - it seems to loop back to the original Spiral Knights, which is great! Difficult but not impossible. If we have any other missions in the core, let's have a swarm seed appear in an arena area like that however. Current one is perfect on difficulty - it's not a spark sink. Probably the hardest part for me during the final battle was trying to see the turret shots with all the swarm dots appearing all over the battlefield.
Also, loot is a good thing you've done! Void monsters are naturally harder to fight with the lack of consumables. Only change I would make on that front is to have more loot boxes per level, or have a randomized item pad in places. You could even have tier 1 health capsules on the pads. With correct application, even a tier 1 health capsule can save your life. You could even put a lower-end vitapod on it (such as a 6 or 9) to help with the whole dying thing.
Bottom line is this is the hard-mode veterans wanted, and I'm very content in how it turned out. Also, now we have a choice between farming crowns from vanaduke or plundering the core for radiants. It's good!

First of all, OOO thank you for the missions. They lived up to expectations, albeit, they could have been a bit better in the climatic moments.
I don't know if we can speculate on the topic but these missions opened up so many possibilities lore and plot wise. I feel like I have to spew theories.
0 - If the Core design wise looks like the Sanctuary, what does that mean? That we have always been able to enter it?
1 - The Sleeper is some kind of energy being like the Stargazer Child from ME3. The Architect was probably the scientist of the species that created the sleeper and after creating it, he deemed the project "too dangerous in the wrong hands", so he imprisoned the sleeper in the core.
2 - The Swarm is possibly also his creation, my hypothesis is that the Swarm is in fact, Cradle's sentient artificial defense mechanism that after growing exponentially, gaining knowledge and power, got "corrupted". (if you think about the opening cutscene, the Skylark is attacked by a pink energy ray, the same colour as the Swarm...possibly related)
3 - It is the Swarm that brings species wanting to harness the energy signature. The Almirian Legion, Spiral Knights, Lichen Colonies, The Crimson Order, etc. All of these wanted that power and fought for it.
4 - The Swarm's objective is that one of the strongest species opens up the Core so that it can consume the energy signature and take over the winner of the deathmatch it created. So far the contenders are the Spiral Order and Herex's minions. All of this so it can get out of Cradle and consume the rest of the Universe.
5 - Euclid may be a future boss in my opinion. According to Parma, he disappeared. What I think will happen is that just like Herex, he will try to understand the Swarm and end up getting corrupted partly or fully. Grantz will either stay dead or become a husk of the Swarm inside the Core. (Maybe we will finally have a use for that Doom status)
Just my 0.02$

0 the sanctuary was made by the sleeper, not in the core itself
1 the sleeper and the architect made a pact that the architect would make a safe place for the sleeper to dream, architect betrays pact and makes cradle a prison, the architect did not make the sleeper
2 the swarm was always corrupt, the architect released it, it never says the architect made it
3 the enemies in the clockworks were brought there by the gremlins, gremlins made cradle and brought parts from other worlds to help build it
4 the swarm is trying to attack the core, that links to 3 and ive already corrected you there
5 this is the only thing you said that isn't completely wrong, nothing here but your speculation, but its unlikely that the story will go in that path
Numbers 1 to 4 are wildly incorrect and existing facts about the game prove it, look at the lore before making obviously wrong theories

Point taken. The hype levels were too high for me I guess. *removes tinfoil hat*

Side question, why did you put 0 in the list?
And a question to the devs, why do you have poison saw blade animations around herex if they don't deal damage? I expected them to be like a poison barrier but apparently they do absolutely nothing

Poor Grantz, why did he have to die? GET HIM BACK OR RAGEQUIT!
Grantz's memories
"Grantz was the real veteran of the bunch. A seasoned Guardian, Grantz specialized in keeping his squad safe, namely by crushing anything that would mean to do them harm. Grantz took his Guardian's Oath very seriously, often putting himself directly in harm's way in order to protect another. The guy was selfless. I imagine that if disaster truly befell Alpha Squad, Grantz didn't let it end without one hell of a fight."
"Grantz took the full blast of a rocket twice, reacting only with a stagger as if he had discovered a stone in his boot. Sometimes I think that beneath his iron suit is a body of equally heavy iron. It wouldn't surprise me."
"Grantz he...he fell while protecting us from The Swarm. He stood his ground even when the rest of us were forced to flee. I'll never forget how brave he was."
A recording from Grantz, Alpha Squad guardian:
"We have seen so many worlds on this mission, but none such as this. This burning citadel is not some construction of gremlin design. This is a real place, some kind of shell of a former empire. There is great sorrow here, something unlike anything I have felt before.
Legions of shambling dead have attacked us here, relentless in their defense of this place. Their broken, burnt frames crumbling and rising once more, ready for another battle. And just as they refuse to fall, so does the burning ruin around them. It is almost as if this whole realm is trapped in a single moment from some forgotten time, never changing, never allowing itself to finally turn to ash.
You can feel it in the smoldering air—an eternal will holding this place together, never allowing its inhabitants to rest. No creature deserves such a fate, it is beyond my understanding.
I wish to leave this place soon. I only hope that our doing so will provide some peace to the souls that dwell here."
May he rest in peace... :'(

What a waste. Vaelyn's a bloody traitor.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=442409800
The previous update left us at a horrible cliffhanger but this one was, while still open-ended, far less infuriating of a hanger. The Core, Herex, the machines, the swarm and then the whiteness, an actually powerful NPC ally for all of tier3, learning about Alpha-squad... that's content I've been playing for about two days straight. ^_^
So here's some feedback on the update.
The Missions
The decaying, revitalizing FSC was a very nice throwback into the old tried-and-true Vana grind with a lot of nice surprises for those just expecting a pallet swap FSC. The addition of fire bombies and Almirians alongside a great amount of shadow fire was a novel way to boost difficulty and make the mission feel truly end-game level, akin to elite level vanguard danger missions.
Initially Herex caught me off-guard completely. Suddenly mechas and bunnies everywhere with boss music and the Pandora's Box opening (also Herexes part in the battle was most interesting during a solo, easy in a party, easiest with shiv alongside) and the way core was "opened" was also more ominous than The Shining.
The new world inside the core was most beautiful (gave off an aura of creation in a game-creation sense, nice touch there too), used all but only new assets and the difficulty was just as extreme as was (truth be told) needed. After playing quite Dreams and Nightmares quite a few times, the randomized structure also seemed like that of an arcade clockwork tunnels, only that all of it is still unknown and would seem perfect for a tier4 area.
Why I think DaN is great for grinding:
After Vanaduke getting notoriously overgrinded (and thus boring), the beautiful, ominous, very difficult white world with poor payout in crowns and heat but GREAT in radiants (and tokens & eternals) seemed like the best addition to grinding that could be thought of. End-game players get a way to find what they need the most (radiants) while we also end up pumping less crowns into the market in the process, slowing down the creeping inflation. [The "balls to the walls" level of difficulty on elite is also a clever way to get rid of some spark-buildup but not in an excessive way (-cough- Mt.Crampus -cough-).]
As for crown&heat grinding... still vana or d28 arenas.
Something that should be fixed:
The depth numbers are completely off. It's obvious we are in the core but depth-wise it's just wrong. Also, unfortunately, this reflects in the loot crates giving also shining fire crystals. Personally the core should be an area that gives ONLY 5* fire crystals, seriously the whole tier3 already drops shining fire crystals so why not give the really hard core area it's own special touch to loot levels.
That I'd love to see expanded from the white world (and Swarm):
A tier4 which puts a fully geared fighter through the ultimate tests. Payout in crowns and heat will be poor but this is the area where radiants are abundant so those who can best the immense difficulty will also gain the greatest of rewards. Areas would be akin to the tunnels stages with a harder level before a treasure level akin to the mission. The enemies will be the Swarm we've seen and later... what I'd assume will be the tier4 boss in his own private levels. ;3
New prestige missions that unlock after completing 10-2. One where you hunt down and destroy Swarm seeds (danger mission?) and another where you explore a set of levels without the chance of changing your equipment (make sure it's clear of Swarm)
Make Swarm seeds or "Swarm enemies" a rare surprise for d24-27 danger rooms and "tough guys". As we know you can get enemies from a higher tier area in danger rooms and, what comes to mind quickly, the scarlet fortress but so far there aren't any higher level monsters that could appear at tier3. The Swarm could potentially serve a purpose here, making traveling deep with insufficient gear or taking risks with arenas even more frightening.
An evil idea: There could be a small chance starting from tier2 and below that a party-button fight in the arcade could be a Swarm corrupted fight, replacing the usual fight and enemies with a horrible swarm arena. The chance would start off as next to non-existent but ramp up to somewhat plausible at d27. Winning the fight could have a special payoff chance of rare drops and more valuable loot and normally in the matching depth.
Well this turned out longer than I thought... sorry for the wall-o-text. ^_^;;;;

It was more exciting than the time i went to climb mountains with my family, i in real life was quite near to death that time. The new mission were breath-holding and plus the core textures, i just love it.

Climbing a mountain isn't that bad Grimm
More on topic fix the swarm souls, they're just spammy and way too many appear at once, maybe make them like grimalkins with only as many as there are party members, I really don't care about specifics but its just harassment having like 10 perpetually following someone

When the Vanguard 10-3 missions will release? (And when the next meta update (with new functions) will come?)
Thanks a lot for OOO to add in more new Rank Missions! Many of the expert knights were getting way bored after finishing the recent ones. I hope we get new missions more frequently instead of waiting too long.
At least, make more new Danger Missions, or maybe even Expansion Missions to keep us busy while more new Rank Missions are made, instead of making some new items & accessories most of the time. It's been a while since we've had new Danger & Expansion Missions.
Give my thanks to OOO for continuing the game's story & missions forward!

I've seen this complaint a number of times, and I'd like to argue with it because I just don't think it's fair-
"New tilesets and soundtrack aside, the core maps are kinda dull.."
This wasn't just a new tileset and soundtrack, this was a complete style shift into abstraction and yet I still knew exactly how everything worked, what everything was, and nothing felt unfair about any of it-- if I died, it was certainly my fault. Moreover, it still felt like Spiral Knights. Think about the challenges as a developer for a minute- how will players know what the new symbol is? How will they recognize everything? And most importantly, how will they learn about all of the new mechanics in the middle of re-learning what the redone old mechanics are?
The answer to this is through game design-- no where does a box pop up saying "We've scanned the area and that blue sphere is a ghost block!" but rather, you shoot the blue sphere and you understand it. You learn about all of the new mechanics in this way- by hitting them and seeing what happens. Then, rarely is there an area with the new spike-creep mechanic (where those spikes pop up after you walk over them) and never is the first instance of the creep a hallway. Since the knight tends to walk forward and avoid scary shadow things, they're likely to understand exactly what's happening. The shadowy spike creep mechanic was also considerably nicer than any other obstacle we've encountered so far because it doesn't require me to sit there and wait for 5 minutes watching my life tick by like other obstacles do, and it presents a unique and interesting challenge that we haven't really encountered before.
The core maps are kinda dull because they need to convey all of that information on top of the shock of the abstract world and beyond that, need to be fast paced so that people can farm them for fire crystals once they get the gist of it without feeling like they're walking through a tutorial. Speaking of which, the maps are randomly generated, greatly enhancing their replay-ability and leading me to my next point-
There's a lot of subtle potential to speculate regarding in this update. Why do you suppose the developers would generate a randomized core type level? It would be far easier for them to just make a couple of levels and just leave it like that, and they've in the past done just that for levels that were played constantly- the most logical explanation is that we'll be seeing more randomly generated core levels in the future, which could really be anything. What about Parma's battle sprite? The wings could easily be an ultimate for that sprite, and it could easily just be unreleased, especially now that everyone wants one. What about the duel wielding? The NPC knights typically fight with weapons we can use and I believe that Valeyn does have unique attacks, so it follows that the developers might be working on some form of duel wielding.. which would be particularly nice for a sword update. That's a lot of possibility that we've been introduced to.

I found the bomb souls to be frustrating, especially when they became hidden by the endless waves of enemies and the swarm confetti that would cover the screen.
I ran this in a two man team. Do the bomb souls disappear if the mission is run with a larger team, (like on some of the Danger Missions,) or are there always bomb souls to put up with?

@Crimson-Cat
They always occur. It's possible to disperse them by dashing, as once they lose aggro they despawn.
@Fehzor
Isn't Vaelyn's charge attack just a calibur charge? So she's bascially a Mecha Knight reskin.

Isn't Vaelyn's charge attack just a calibur charge? So she's bascially a Mecha Knight reskin.
Vaelyn is a reskin of the proto sword recruit in the "Breaking in the Recruits". You'll notice the occasional movement away from the player and use of shield bash.

Just wanted to take a second to describe my reaction to the new missions:
wow
I like the new core levels a lot - for the most part. The last arena battle is certainly a challenge given the incredibly low odds of picking up a vitapod or health capsule on the trip down there.
What I'd really like though is for the interface screw to be turned down a bit. I got hit I don't even know how many times by attacks that I couldn't even see coming. Swarm turret shots and void toxoils were the big culprits here - I simply could not see their shots coming with all of those black boxes constantly popping up on the screen. Please tone down that clutter by a third or so. We still get the effect but without it being crippling.

Adding that effect to the list of things I am very tempted to delete from the files >.>

Regarding the Valeyn point- yes, I came to realize that she just reused the standard proto-knight business after I posted that. I will say however, that I still fancy the idea of this hinting at duel wielding.

Yes, it is nice that it's graphically possible, and looks okay when you're not playing as the character dual wielding.
I've started playing with a Swiftstrike and a Cutter, and oh my god, why do more people not use the cutter? No wonder there are so many complaints about Fiends being OP.

I don't do ASI high cutters cause I can't keep up with myself.
but yes, ASI VH cutters are hilariously fast.

When I mean dull, I mean it's a walking simulator; occasionally depth 26 has no monsters whatsoever. Sometimes the maps will have several arena encounters, but otherwise there's zero reason to engage mobs so they serve no purpose.. in which case you have to wonder why they bothered to spawn at all.
Also, there seems to be a lot of key carrying for some reason.
Candlestick maps are randomly generated from a collection of parts too, but this 'plays' like a Candlestick with Grimalkins but stripping away everything else.

Continuing from here: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/109791
(FYI I don't think a lot of people will like you shutting down threads)
The last floor with prize boxes shouldn't give use pickups we can never use.
I don't need a vitapod and a ton of vials I just finished the mission, there are no monsters on this floor, and there are only 3 ways I can die (Faust, Gran Faust, and Fang of Vog) and I'm not that stupid.
Please just make the boxes at the end of Dreams and Nightmares only drop CR, Heat, and Rarities.
P.S. I will reboot my thread after some time has passed....

why do more people not use the cutter?
Because i need mah damage numbers to be big!
Also this is why I believe the wild hunting blade ought to be piercing damage as it'll encourage more cutter use VS fiends. Cutters cut through fields like butter.

Hahaha.
Shutting down threads? Streisand Effect called; they want their free speech back.

First of all I want to thank you for creating these new missions that continue the story of Spiral Knight. I like pretty much that swarm enemies became much more important than I did initially thought.
1. The new Firestorm Citadel:
I like what you have done to the 'Blackstone Bridge' in general. Players can actually see a process of their victory over Vanaduke (exspecially if you have spended there days with farming) by having all this grass growing there. This makes a kinda peaceful atmosphere, but it is a wrong peace that you see if you try to speedrun it once more and find yourselfe stuck because you have to go multiple times forward and back may it be to transportate a Sprite, some water or simply dodge a bullet hell between many critters. You transformed the former dull and easy bridge with some little changes into a good challange. But like already mentioned: Bugs can glitch through the energy fields to the other side, which is annoying.
The secound deapth is continues with the split feeling of seeing a place where nothing is to do but yet there is this danger than can't be denied, exspecially underlined by the never rasting fire souls behind you. But one thing remains: I am not sure if it was intended or not, but on the minniemap the area behind the key-gates is grey, as if it would be unreachable.
I personally would have liked to visit more rooms again. It was kinda disappointing with all these dead-ends. I also was hoping for a hardcore-version of the gun-puppies room, also the lower-right room was disappointing easy while the lower-left room offers a nice challange, exspecially since the Guard can revive nearby slags.
In the throne room itselfe I kinda expected another fight - and may it be only some remaining zombies that suddenly appear behind.
Well..... but the Gremlin fight... I am not sure if I should be happy my Shiver+Blitz Needle were crap there or if I shall take it as teachment. When The fight started I was angry first because I had far the wrong weapons here and nothing was mentioned, that *constructs* will come. Not for the Boss, he has no chance against a shiva+needle combo, but all the constructs around... well this was an annoiying fight, but I am sure it was planned like this to slap older players for bringing their standard stuff (which seen as review I like that humor).
I just would like to have some secounds to charge a weapon before the monsters actually appear because they instantly spawn and if you rely on bombs, it is a harsh situation.
2.Adventures inside the Core:
Congratulations! You really made an impressive core-terminal; and everyone new I brought there had the same reaction of the overwhelming creepy pink eyes in all these screens. I also like the conversation after pressing the button, but then.... seriously, I was so disappointed, when it just became black and the loading screen came.... no epic cutscene, no head-over camera into the core, just... black...
So I want to add this suggestion: you could move the camera over that core elevator while seeing the still closed core and then start to turn the core's gate while so players can not see a gate anymore to pretent it is actually opened. After this the whole screen could be white and then the elevator-continue message will appear.
On this way you do not have to implement a real video clip, but it will look much more awesome than simply make the screen black and say 'you are now in the core, congratulations'.
The landscape of the core look very beautiful. I like the open edges and walking of bare blocks. I like the mix of white innocence mixed with the black invasion in form of the swarm. Also the fact that there are no supplies and that monsters drop nothing but hearts does allow a completely new playing style which remembers me (refering to these 10 things you didnt know about spiral knights) to the initial idea of spiral knights, where a fight was intended to be avoided for the most time. I also love the two soundtracks in the core: The one of the neverending white and the one also beeing played in the Unknown Passage while fighting. I also think that having all monster types available might encourage using normal type damage but... well it didnt work for me :P But I hope that in future some missions might simply be done easier with normal weapons.
I have also done this mission a lots of times now and see that the whole level is beeing generated out of certain elements that reappear again by repeating the mission and that rooms are beeing generated here and there to slow down the process or to simply look epic. So I was wondering if there could be a core-stratum in the arcarde behind the core terminal or a danger mission with this tileset. Or simply more stuff missions people can do inside the core.
It would be also nice to have Treasure Boxes changed, aswell.... why not letting them appear like green and red balls? On my first run I expected it to be like that :o
A negative thing is that the strict edges of the white ways offer an unplanned challange to the black eye-souls inside the core: a soul can be approaching on an altitude that is so low that a player can't see it, but actually this very soul is a few metres near the player, simply off the raod. Then the soul approaches and explodes right when it becomes visible aside the player on the road. An annoying event.
I like the ideas in the last deapth with monsters. I expecially liked the find-the-button-room, which is a great idea :) I also like that in the last room the (by the way surprising useful) NPC is out of combat range. Unluckily he is still close enough to get the attention of monsters that get distracted by the NPC and thus he unintentially interfers in the fight when enough gates are opened and monsters can get close to him.
The sanctuary is a place I also like for many reasons. The one is the beautiful landscape: While blocks with a pure white grass ground. Only thing that could be added would be a water spot in the centre to give it even more appearence of a sanctuary.
Oh and then there are the radiants. Well, yea, I thought I can finally get over my 4* arsenal, but it seems like each time I do this mission, I am getting less radiants. When I got 6 Rads today after all this trouble, it was pretty disappointing.
All-in-all the new missions (exspecially the white tileset) looks very promising and I am looking forward to see more of it in the future, maybe also in the arcarde ;)
My new computer seems to not like SK. I've been waiting on the loading screen for several minutes.
Guess I'll have to be patient...