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Players in the suggestion Forums!

21 replies [Last post]
Thu, 05/28/2015 - 21:28
Blandaxt's picture
Blandaxt

So most players in the suggestion forums come at your thread that you post there and say hey:

- Your idea needs more detail!

- Your idea is not fleshed out enough...

- Your idea is repeating the old ideas that have already been posted, DO SOME RESEARCH!

- Your idea is NOT FOR SPIRAL KNIGHTS!

- Your idea is not something I agree with.

- And many more ways to reject the idea.

And all of this is mostly said in a very aggressive tone putting down the player therefore stopping him/her from posting further ideas. So I have endured through this for around or at least 2 years now. And after looking through all the points and requirements they have given me, I finally dish out some good ideas like:

This: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/109997#comment-997965

Or this: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/72669

Or even this: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/63597

So after around a month or more of working on some of these ideas, I post them thinking they are going to congratulate me and tell me that I put much thought into this idea or how they will go into the details saying they would like to change this or that. OR even try to respond to half or one subject in my idea.

But what I got was WALL OF TEXTTT, AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! =͟͟͞͞ =͟͟͞͞ ヘ( ´Д`)ノ

WALL OF TEXTTT, AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! !!Σ(゚Д゚;≡≡≡≡≡ヾ(;゚д゚)/

Not gonna read this...( ̄^ ̄)

Not gonna read this...<( ̄︶ ̄)>

So I understand, you’re a very busy person and might not even want to take a glance at or even pick at my idea with a pick, but why give me a depressing attitude and make me feel depressed by telling me ( I'm not gonna read this!, or wall of text. ) It just kills me inside to think that my idea was just wasted. sighh anyway this is my attempt to get some help on how to better approach these very picky eaters/readers in the suggestion forums (not everyone is like this, just feels like the majority). Can you guys please help me out?

Fri, 05/29/2015 - 16:43
#1
Gbot-Vtwo's picture
Gbot-Vtwo
I want to help you and make you feel better about yourself!

"All of this is mostly said in a very aggressive tone putting down the player therefore stopping him/her from posting further ideas."

IKR!??!!?!?!?

"This" Or this:"

I don't see anything that is offensive at all. They want to help you and are willing to in a nice manner.

"Or even this:"

Fangel was trying to help you. Only 3 times has he talked down to me and made me feel sad about myself. This is just him being nice.

"So after around a month or more of working on some of these ideas, i post them thinking they are going to congratulate me and tell me that i put much thought into this idea or how they will go into the details saying they would like to change this or that. OR even try to respond to half or one subject in my idea. Instead i just got," OMG lel big text so that es exuse 2 nawt reed a gud iedea leleleleel."

yeah, i did see that a few times before as well. I hate when people are like "TL;DR." it's like they are saying that just because it is a lot of words means that the suggestion you made was automatically worthless. I'm sorry that happened man. "It just kills me inside to think that my idea was just wasted." I know how you feel.

Thu, 05/28/2015 - 22:49
#2
Blandaxt's picture
Blandaxt
thanks..

@Gbot-Vtwo:

I think you might be right about fangel and it might just be from my perspective that he was being aggressive, but that is how i took his reply when it came to the vial thread and now this thread where tl;Dr feels like my idea was wasted. I think not posting might even be a better a lternative sense i will feel like maybe they just did not see my idea. But saying it's a wall of text really sadens me.

Fri, 05/29/2015 - 04:13
#3
Mergu-Md's picture
Mergu-Md

When you post, you immediately open the doors to criticism. One crucial thing to do when posting an idea is to keep it organized and as short as possible. I've been coding for 6 years now. Sure, when you start, your focus is on the execution: Does the project work as intended? - However, as you progress there's a huge focus on structure, readability, and commenting. If you throw caution to the wind, later on people might not be understand your methods and you'll have trouble editing.

If your paragraph exceeds 8-9 lines, there's a good chance players will skip over it. One way to get around this problem is by splitting your paragraphs into meaningful sections. Another super effective way is to explain your idea in a way that doesn't ramble on and on. Get to the point as quick as you can. I've read your posts before, and they're not easy to look at. Put special effort in making sure your posts have correct punctuation, spelling, etc.

This thread looks like a temper-tantrum, as if someone made you feel bad so you're stomping your feet around. The mature thing to do is to improve, not expect others to apologize for having an opinion.

Fri, 05/29/2015 - 08:16
#4
Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
......

I make my suggestions well made but still very open to suggestions and advice from other people. As the Thread progresses the idea evolves into something all the forumers have built together.

Your ideas are massive and seem like you want something very specific, leaving a lot for a person to process and understand. I have seen High concept documents shorter than your suggestions. I'm not saying it is bad to have an idea about what you want to suggest but it helps if you can make it so that we can read it and understand it without a large amount of effort.

Most of my suggestions are super simplified.
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/107642

Fri, 05/29/2015 - 09:50
#5
Fangel's picture
Fangel
Lunarias hit the nail on the head

Blandaxt, if you want my honest opinion, your long and thought-out suggestions typically are huge blocks of text that are hard to read. I mean that as there are little to no line breaks, no use of italics, bold, or lists to sort out the ideas, and often the suggestion lacks a fair amount of grammar. I can read through short paragraphs with little to no formatting, but huge threads built like that are a pain to read. If I get distracted or pulled away from my computer, I'd have no idea where I left off.

If you want a good example of long posts that are formatted well, take a look at Dracora-Speaking's (AKA, Novaster's) posts. They put a lot of time and effort into their posts, but they are also very easy to read through and understand.

This also isn't just a you thing. Anyone who writes without formatting (spaces between lines, lists to list things, etc) in a suggestion post or posts with lots of distracting characters gets a big red X in my mind. I simply cannot stay focused on them. If people then seek out my opinion on the matter, I will tell them I can't read what they wrote, or to condense it down into a version I will be able to read.

Hopefully this'll help you make easier-to-read high quality posts in the future. :)

Fri, 05/29/2015 - 16:44
#6
Gbot-Vtwo's picture
Gbot-Vtwo
☢♜☠I AM THE BOI-OHAZARD!☠♖☣

I EDITED THIS:

@Fangel what you said was correct, but it is really annoying and hurtful when you post something like this:

"These walls of text scare me."

Saying, that is basically saying to curtain people,

"This is a big wall of text. Even if it is well-written, and read-able, I'm not going to read it."

That was one of the points he was trying to make when he put that first thread for a link. Just pointing that out.

Fri, 05/29/2015 - 12:00
#7
Fangel's picture
Fangel
Yes, it is.

The suggestions forum isn't a place where you should be if you can't articulate your thoughts into readable chunks that other forum-goers will understand. The first part of sharing ideas is being able to communicate them clearly to others. If you cannot do that, work on your communications before throwing your ideas to the wild.

If we can't read the suggestion, then we can't critique the suggestion. If you ask for critique on the suggestion and we can't read it, the only logical place to go is critiquing the communications. Once everyone is on the same page, then we can enhance and move the suggestion along.

I said it on another post and I'll say it here again: more detail =/= more words. It all depends on what words you use, not how many you have.
And in the future, if any of you have a personal conflict with me, please message me in-game. It will keep the forums cleaner and we can sort things out there. Any posts you make on the forums I will reply to on the forums, and it might not make either of us very happy.

Fri, 05/29/2015 - 12:01
#8
Blandaxt's picture
Blandaxt
thanks..

Thanks for the advice everyone. So when it comes down to it, i need a good suggestion and good formating for anyone to at least take a look at my suggestion. Hehe, guess what they taught me in school won't go to waste here.

Still what it doesn't change from my point of view is that when ever a player post i dis not read this or too long, the player that is posting that comment is basically putting down that player and instead of telling him constructive advice like to format the thread to make it easier to read.

So i really see no reason why a player needa to post a td;lr or a wall of text sarcasm. It's just putting down the player who spent effort and put Lots of thought into their idea.

You don't have to argue with me. but this is how i will always portray players who post these things as people who want to make other people feel pain and hurt their feelings.

Fri, 05/29/2015 - 12:26
#9
Bopp's picture
Bopp
people want to fight

Some people simply want to fight, because they enjoy it. The anonymity of the Internet only intensifies and enables this tendency. Don't take it too personally, when someone attacks you.

I skimmed the second suggestion in your original post (node 72669). You tried to organize/summarize some aspects with bullet points, which is nice. And the fundamental concept is creative and interesting.

You could have used an "executive summary" at the top, describing your key idea. Readers need this, to determine whether they are interested enough to keep reading.

Your suggestion involves four new monster types, four new minibosses, a new boss, at least one new board element (trigger trap), and a massively new game mechanic (reconfiguring a level while the players are playing it). It's too much. At a minimum, you could have shunted most of the details of how the monsters work into a second post, so that readers could more easily skip them.

At the end, you include some apparently unrelated suggestions about shields and monster tweaks. Politicians call this "going off message". It distracts from the main point of your thread. Put it in another thread.

Additionally, there are some typographical errors, grammatical errors, and substantive errors (referring to statuses as elements). Of course, everyone makes mistakes. But proofread carefully, to minimize mistakes, to make your post seem better.

Sat, 05/30/2015 - 09:50
#10
Gbot-Vtwo's picture
Gbot-Vtwo
☢♜☠I AM THE BOI-OHAZARD!☠♖☣

Fangel:"The suggestions forum isn't a place where you should be if you can't articulate your thoughts into readable chunks that other forum-goers will understand."

That is true all the way.

Blandaxt:"i really see no reason why a player need to post a td;lr or a wall of text sarcasm. It's just putting down the player who spent effort and put Lots of thought into their idea."

That is true. That's what i was saying to Fangel on my last post. Sorry to anyone if i didn't make it clear to you.

Blandaxt:"You don't have to argue with me. but this is how i will always portray those players who post "TL;DR" or "BIG TEXT LELELEL.": as people who want to make others feel pain and sorrow. Instead of trying to help the OP."

I agree. To anyone who wants to make a suggestion clear, don't put something sarcastic. Instead post something like," I can't read this because of the punctuation and/or badly spelled/poorly written, could somebody make this clearer?" DO NOT POST, "TL;DR." If you do post that thing, don't even comment at all. It is just spam and doesn't do anybody any good. It doesn't help the OP, and it is just a waste of a comment entirely(UNLESS YOU ARE ASKING FOR A TL;DR).

Fri, 05/29/2015 - 13:47
#11
Fangel's picture
Fangel
Except not.

Saying "TL;DR" means you didn't read a post.

Asking for a "TL;DR" means asking for a summary in internet slang.
Typically asking for a TL;DR isn't rude. Stating "TL;DR" can be, however that depends on the person reading.

Y'all reading my posts like an english professor need to tone down on the flak. The curtains being red doesn't mean anything, and the fact that I said "This wall of text scares me" is literally just humor added onto my request. Yes, I do hide things in my posts, but on the suggestions forums I cut that down to a minimum.

And while I'm apparently being literally grammar hitler, Galax, it would be so helpful if you could put your responses to other people on a new line. It's really hard to read what is your voice and what is other people's voices too often, and I don't know where your voice starts.

Fri, 05/29/2015 - 14:29
#12
Gbot-Vtwo's picture
Gbot-Vtwo
I will go change mah posts den for easier read.

Sorry about that. I should have worded that better. I don't really know how to word it correctly though.

Fri, 05/29/2015 - 15:22
#13
Fangel's picture
Fangel
Oh dear

Now it looks like you're screaming names, geez.

If you haven't done it before, try using the italics tags. You type < em > these tags < /em > around whatever you want to italicize... Without the spaces between the brackets and the letters. That will make your posts much easier to read.

@Example
"This is an example quote"
This is an example response.

That format is very frequently used on 'ere. Don't want to take away uniqueness but since this is sort of becoming a "how to communicate" thread, figured I'd at least throw the idea your way.

Fri, 05/29/2015 - 16:47
#14
Gbot-Vtwo's picture
Gbot-Vtwo
☢♜☠I AM THE BOI-OHAZARD!☠♖☣

Thank you Fangel. I changed the posts again.

Fri, 05/29/2015 - 22:49
#15
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

"The suggestions forum isn't a place where you should be if you can't articulate your thoughts into readable chunks that other forum-goers will understand."

https://quotesaga.s3.amazonaws.com/quote/QS_5091cc7b507b4513bbc73af29b6b...

Sat, 05/30/2015 - 09:31
#16
Fangel's picture
Fangel
Much better!

Thank you Fangel. I changed the posts again.
Looks much more readable, great!

Sat, 05/30/2015 - 23:07
#17
Agentz's picture
Agentz
BLARGH

As much as I would love to read those well thought out ideas, I feel as though, after scrolling for literally more than a minute to get to the bottom of the post, it is a little bit discouraging. a TL;DR would be nice as more of a summary, not a literal "Too Long, Didn't Read". ~Z

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 01:56
#18
Blandaxt's picture
Blandaxt
Thanks again.

Thanks again for the advice/support Bopp, Gbot-Vtwo, Agentz, and a bit of wisdom from fangel who says td:lr does not literally mean too long, didn't read, but could also mean please summarize your idea so I can get a better grasp on it using a small amount of time (though personally, if someone cannot ask me in the fashion i put it down, and just post td:lr, it still feels rude). I will try to summarize both post and resubmit them as an update. Hope someone will look at it then and not run away cause of the wall of text.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 19:21
#19
Mechathglxclone's picture
Mechathglxclone
For TL;DR's

So most players in the suggestion forums come at your thread that you post there and says:

- Your idea is NOT FOR SPIRAL KNIGHTS!
- Your idea makes dis play 2 pley lel
- Your idea is not something i agree with.
-your idea is not good lel.

& Many more ways to reject the idea instead of constructive criticism.

All of This is mostly said in a very Sour Tone, Putting Down the OP. therefore Stopping them from posting Further Ideas instead of useful info that could help them later on. I had to endure through this tragedy for around; 2 years now, and so have others like me.

& After looking through all the points & requirements they have given me, i Finally dish out some Good ideas like:

This: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/109997#comment-997965
Or this: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/72669
Or even this: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/63597

I put Much effort into these posts thinking; others will congratulate me & tell me how they would like to change this or that. OR maybe even try to respond to one or two subjects in my idea(s).
instead this happened:
"TL;DR"
"Not gonna read dis lel"

So i understand, you might not even want to glance at my idea, but Why give me a Depressing attitude by telling me, "I'm not gonna read this!", or "wall of text. "? It just kills me inside to think that my idea full of potential was just wasted.

This might be easier for people to digest, Blandaxt. ^

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 22:09
#20
Abelisk's picture
Abelisk

Blandaxt said: "Can you guys please help me out."

"please help me out."

"out."

"."

Use question marks pleaseeee

Wed, 06/03/2015 - 18:55
#21
Blandaxt's picture
Blandaxt
thanks..

Thanks for the help Mechathglxclone and Itsmeandersonlol.

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