"New" revive is too much expensive
Thu, 05/19/2016 - 18:28
I don't want to speak about some obvious things that everyone (including me) wants. Like new boss/dungeon, and gears, but about the res.
I quit the game before the new gui was introduced, and until that time, for come back to life, you had to wait another player which help you with half of his life or by yourself, with 10 CE.
Now, since the first try is free, but you have to use spark of life, and this item cost 200 ce per 10, the cost is doubled. And the worst thing is that nobody can help you.
Which is enough to vanificate a run for gaining some crowns, if you die a few times.
I think Grey Havens should return back to the old system, and instead of this repristinate ce value for gears crafting or even for take the elevator (with or without Elevator Pass).
Signed by a old knight playing in the '11-'12 which feels again romantic regarding this game.
PS: the old icons were so much better, these doesn't have anything in common with the graphic of the game
Thu, 05/19/2016 - 18:55
#2
I'm a Wizard
He's just suffering from People not Liking Change. What do you mean the current icons don't fit in?
I'd like it better if my weapon icons didn't look like they were made of 8 shapes in paint.
Thu, 05/19/2016 - 21:38
#3
BoingBoing
Ok i have read the thread and i almost agree with Fangel.
It's true that continuously revs elevated the ce costs at high levels, but since because there was the option to revive using life, this process was more slow, instead of revive with spark of life. Why i have to use on a player something which i need so much?
I think it is unfair simplify all with "People not Liking Change".
It's obvious that the game identity was heavy altered by the new management, OOO wouldn't done that. So i hope GH will recreate a sort of new balanced system similar to the old one (similar, not necessarily egual), because IMHO not only the game was ruined with the lack of contents but also with these wrong organizational decisions. And i'm speaking about revives, and "CE removal" from most of the important parts of the game, like crafting, and i don't remember anything else in this moment.
I mean weapon and material icons. Simplicity is not always a bad thing, the new ones seems more appropriated for a fantasy game. Always IMHO.
PS: I'm sorry for my bad english.
Thu, 05/19/2016 - 22:13
#4
Blerg.
I honestly think we should just get an option to use the old hud/old icons. I don't mind sparks orbs and even crystals, the new hud and icons just aren't great imo. But considering some people like them just give us an option to use the new hud or the old hud. I can only feel as if its not as difficult as performing surgery on yourself to edit the old hud for sprites and whatnot.
But what do I know? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Fri, 05/20/2016 - 00:08
#5
Minimalism is not always the right choise
The problem with the flat icons is that you'd have to make them separately, which adds work as opposed to simply taking a picture from the finished piece of gear and in that particular style you can only have so many icons before you run into problems with the communication.
It is not easy to convey meaning in symbols and icons, especially when using simple geometric forms with no depth an very limited space.
I get that pixel art can cope with space and limited elements but even then you have depth, shadows, textures and perspective, etc. and not only shape and color.
Just imagine making distinguishable icons for the whole padded armor family.
If too many pieces of gear have the same or too similar icons, then I have to rely on reading, which makes the HUD harder to use and thus defies it's original purpose of conveying information quickly, reliably and enjoyably.
I dare to say the whole shift away from the flat design could have been caused by this problem. The gear had to change and so had everything else for consistency's sake.
Still the placement of the elements could have been better...
And I'm not sure if I understand you, but the energy prices are set by the players not the devs. And the whole crafting with energy thing was then more p2w than now.
Edit: I'm not saying it is impossible to come up with an infinite amount of flat icons, but it is probably very time consuming and rather impractical.
Fri, 05/20/2016 - 00:31
#6
<insert title>
Also, for the thing about orbs of alchemy, why the heck to people complain?
In the Supply Depot, they cost the same as the old alchemy prices, and now you can get them completely for free.
Why don't people like that?
Fri, 05/20/2016 - 01:27
#7
Unrelated post because I'm new
Personally, I just want the old forge system...
Fri, 05/20/2016 - 04:13
#8
copy pasted from a post literally about the forge
"The forge is a huge improvement over the old system.
In the old system, you were limited on playtime. You had about 30 minutes to an hour and a half each day you could play unless you wanted to spend money to play more.
Then you had to pay money to upgrade your gear... And to revive... And to go down elevators... etc.
As it stands, the forge introduced the rarity system to the game. We now have free revives (at the cost of health revives. RIP), free elevators, free gear upgrades... but now heating gear takes longer. The difference with the forge to the old system is that the forge requires you to actively play the game rather than waiting 22 hours for another expedition.
Now this isn't to say the forge is perfect. End-game forge is pretty unbalanced and requires the best gear to farm some of the hardest levels. It's an endless cycle because you need the best gear to farm these levels, but to get the best gear you need to farm these levels.
Removing the chance of failure (or just making it a 80% - 90% - 100% chance across the board) would be a huge step in the right direction. Add more bonuses to the higher crystals, make them more common. This would make the fire crystal grind more tolerable.
Make rarity drops less affected by difficulty. Use the elite difficulty rarity drops as the baseline for advanced, and make normal give us 10% less drops and elite give 10% more drops. None of this "on normal you get no fire crystals, on elite you get 21". Alternatively make the drop rates the same across the board but have normal difficulty drop 1 fire crystal per box, advanced drop 2, and elite drop 3.
Biggest problem with the forge is the items required to make it work. The system is great, but the gathering of fire crystals leaves a lot to be desired."
This was a response to the same not-well-thought-out solution you have, because we have to explain this like every two days to people who can't be bothered to read relevant posts instead of making a new one
Fri, 05/20/2016 - 06:46
#9
I'm still doubtful
@Vohtarak-Forum
Remove the health revives constrains players to prematurely quit runs for the scare of lost too much spark of lifes. I done some Vanaduke mission and players quits a lot more than the past.
After this discussion, i have read the wiki, and i'm not completely against the orbs crafting if it is still "bound" to a cost of CE.
But i have a doubt, since now is possible to obtain orbs doing runs, isn't this ruins the sellings on the market of 2-3 stars gears?
Since is more simple create them.
Fri, 05/20/2016 - 07:37
#10
I'm a Wizard
It's obvious that the game identity was heavy altered by the new management, OOO wouldn't done that.
Grey Havens have only done about four things so far. You do know the reason of Grey Havens owning Spiral Knights now, right?
Remove the health revives constrains players to prematurely quit runs for the scare of lost too much spark of lifes. I done some Vanaduke mission and players quits a lot more than the past.
Well, I don't really know what to say about this. In sure that in the last four or so months of playing SK players surely would've practiced evasion. Unless they played everything on Normal.
But i have a doubt, since now is possible to obtain orbs doing runs, isn't this ruins the sellings on the market of 2-3 stars gears? Since is more simple create them.
Orbs are called rarities for a reason. Finding one is hard enough but three takes some time.
In the past you could make two free 2* Items per day if you that's what you wanted to do. But that's not the case today.
Fri, 05/20/2016 - 08:33
#11
@Blazecat-Percival
I'm sorry,
@Blazecat-Percival
I'm sorry, i think there is a misunderstanding: for "new management" i intend the changes occurred in the game between the passage from OOO to Sega. If GH is composed mostly by ex OOO, i think is legit to think they will change the game again. But i am not so utopist to think it will return exactly like before, maybe a hybrid system or something totaly new.
They are only preferences anyway. I think that would work best with two mist craft at day. And because it's fun to try the UV's and because it's good for the auction system.
Fri, 05/20/2016 - 09:16
#12
You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!
I just want to throw something in there:
The old icons were interesting in the sense that...typically they clearly conveyed how the weapon worked. If you had a Flourish-type weapon, it behaved differently from a Calibur or a Brandish. (In its normal combo) Therefor, the old icons were great for conveying the message of "Hey, see, this weapon has a different combo from that one!"
Of course, there are all the other arguments. I just wanted to point it out.
Fri, 05/20/2016 - 10:17
#13
huh
Oh hey, I've been quoted several times already in this thread.
At this rate I won't even need to post on these things anymore because people will post my things for me.
Fri, 05/20/2016 - 10:53
#14
just further elaboration :P
@Fangel I appreciate your patience for explaining these things over and over for newbies like me or in this case old veterans coming back home.
@Autofire https://sites.google.com/site/archivosdejavier1234/home/spiral-knights/h...
I wasn't there when the old icons were around, so i think it is more of a convention thing, but I personally have a hard time relating the green icons with the ash tail coat for example.
The owlite shield is yellow and I'd think it protects against pierce and not elemental.
The Blitz needle(?) I assume, I get it is an autogun, but the blue coloring made me think it was shadow damage for a moment.
The cutter is almost fine though, I can see clearly that it is a either a hunting or wild hunting blade.
So there is a bit of discrepancy when representing gear in icons and seeing them IG and I think the eventual limitation comes mostly from having the icon the IG coloration rather than representing their effect, damage or protection.
For some gear I can relate, but more often than not I have to guess or know them by heart and I can see why they decided to change it.
tl;dr detail is limited.
I'm no expert on this but we had this talk a while ago. http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/114482#comment-1030181
I think Fangel has some valid points.
And which icons do you mean? The weapons icons?
I personally think the old weapon icons are a bit too open for interpretation, whilst the new ones tell you unmistakably which weapon/armor it is at first sight. Also since the flat design is gone it would not make much sense to bring them back. (Not saying the positioning of the new HUD is flawless.)
Edit: You can revive or be revived by sparks of live. Just click on your teammates avatar and select the option on the drop down menu.