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Equipment Balance Compilation

17 replies [Last post]
Tue, 10/04/2011 - 02:40
Kirnan's picture
Kirnan

As I felt that it needed its own thread, I took this data from the other thread for use here. Post what you guys think needs to be balanced and when discussed, it will be posted on here. I might have this moved to Arsenal later on if needed.

Personally, I really think the energy costs should be changed, Not all equipment should necessarily be equal, but if no one uses anything but the best equipment, because it's just as pricey as the sucky equips, well, what was the point of making the other stuff in the first place?

The essential problem here is that all equipment costs the same amount of CE and crowns at each tier, yet is not equal in the slightest. So there is a choice the devs should make if they want their hard work on items to NOT go to waste. They either lower the costs for many of the items, or they could make some good changes to them such as these:

Armor & Helm Balance:

Bombastic Set - Damage increase does not make it comparable to other sets
Blizzbreak/Blazebreak/Surgebreak Sets - Bonus does not compensate for weakness, especially since they terminate at 3-Stars
Cobalt Set - Has no bonuses to compare to any set, is even comparable to the Jelly set
Chaos Set - Bonuses do not compensate for weaknesses by any means
Dragonscale Set - Again, this is dual-defense and as such, it does not compare to other armors that offer Normal Protection. This set needs to stick with Piercing protection, especially given that it is good vs. beasts.
Jelly Set - Sleep Resistance useless, full set has less defense than Ironmight for a tradeoff of nothing more than no weaknesses in things like attack speed
Mercurial Set - Movement speed has no real effect, why is this even a bonus as listed?? If you quadrupled the movement speed bonus per rank, it might be decent enough to use this in any Stratum with piercing damage.
Shadowsun Set - Bonus does not compensate for weakness, and when compared to other weapon sets like Skolver or Mad Bomber, this set could use more of a bonus, or no weaknesses.
Silvermail Line - This line has piercing and shadow defense, essentially making it useless as well compared to the Deadshot set, which gives an excellent range of defense and attack against the undead.
Skelly Set - The fire weakness makes this worthless compared to the Deadshot Set (which has a bit less shadow defense, but more Normal, with no status weaknesses), especially as the Deadshot has Bonus vs. Undead.
Vitasuit Armor - None of these seem to make any sense getting, but if the whole set was one single line from 1-star to 5-star with the 5-star version having 8 Health and Max Normal protection with some other Ability added on, this would be a viable line.
Volcanic Salamander Set - Has a damage Bonus vs. Slimes, yet it has Elemental Defense. What gives? Give it a Damage Bonus vs. something else.

Shield Balance:
Jelly Shield - Compared to Ironmight, this shield has nothing to suggest using it over the Ironmight.
Blizzbreak/Blazebreak/Surgebreak Shields - These shields do not even measure up to other shields of 3-Star level, yet they terminate. Why bother? They should at least go to 5 star.
Omega Shell - Has no use, could have max Normal protection to make it on par, possibly, anyway.
Heater Shield - This shield has overall less defense compared to the Grey Owlite
Aegis Shield - This shield has less overall defense compared to Ironmight Shield
Ancient Shield - Between this shield and the Volcanic Plate, this has less overall defense.
Swiftstrike Buckler - This shield is somewhat viable, however, can easily be compared to the Bristling Buckler, as both add DPS. The Bristling has equivalent damage, though, given that attack speed does not add much DPS, and can only be useful for swords, given the lack of effect on reload with guns and its complete lack of utility with bombs. The Bristling has piercing defense, the Swiftstrike nothing, not even higher than normal protection. This shield should get either higher normal, or some lower damage type to compensate, especially given it stops at 3-star.
Dragonscale Shield - With no normal defense, this thing is lacking, given that it does not have increased health or pierce/elemental defense to compensate

Trinkets:
Status Defense Trinkets - Let's face it, compared to the normal defensive trinkets, these things are NOT on par. To fix them, they should likely be close to full to really fit the gap, especially now that the offensive trinkets really rock the trinket spectrum. This is too bad, really, considering there are status stratums that these would be useful on if it weren't for the other issues.

Weapons Balance:

Bombs:
Ionized salt bomb - Its piercing damage conflicts with its damage against slimes bonus, also its charge time is unreasonable to really be useful in a game that punishes bombs by taking the charge away with damage
Venom Veiler - Only deals minor poison, should do stronger levels for a 5-star, currently too weak to make much of a difference, given the bomb is sacrificing damage for a status, even though poison has been fixed.
Big Angry Bomb - Compared to the Nitronome, this bomb has no worthwhile use.
Stagger Storm - Compared to other Haze Bombs, not quite worth it, given its low stun time and combined with Krogmo coin grinding. Also weak for soloers
Heavy Deconstructor - Stops at 4 stars, making it a bit weak in comparison to Nitronome
Irontech Destroyer - Like the BAB, this bomb still has low DPS compared to the Nitronome and no bonuses. Seriously, what gives?

Guns:
Magnus Line - Weak charge attack, not worth the time to charge it as you could get off 2 attacks instead.
Iron Slug - Compared to other guns, is lower in DPS and more difficult to use. Furthermore, for being 2 shots, normal damage does not make it worthwhile to use vs. anything, as most enemies are easy to hit with most guns. Give it more damage or more shots...
Neutralizer - Useless compared to others in its line.

Swords:
Troika Line - I have heard reports of this weapon not being up to par, and the charge attacks sucking, can I get some confirmation?
Spur Line - Charge attack just does not do any justice, and the line ends at 4 stars. Worse, it's damage is not even comparable to the Calbur line. Shame really, the blades are pretty slick looking.
Cold Iron Vanquisher - Again, what is the deal here? Is this sword really worth it in Undead Stratums, or is the Leviathan overall better?
Cutter Line - Charge attacks at 5-star have issues and cause a lot of misses or increased danger to the user, making them useful only to very few enemies. This causes imbalance, as their regular attacks do not have any bonus over the usual swords used. (Such as Leviathan)
Flourish Line: Final Flourish is ultimately much better than the other 2 variants of the flourishes.
Cautery Sword: Honestly, why does this exist??

Other:
Attack Speed Increase Variants - Has virtually no use on guns compared to damage increases, and does not affect bombs at all.
Heat Amplifier - WAY overpriced for what it does. It is simply not cost effective. Either make it 100% extra heat or lessen the cost to 500.
Accessories - Need the silver keys to be cheaper or for accessories to be removable without destruction, otherwise this is a system that caters to players with lots of real world cash only.

______________________________

My Suggestions Compilation Thread: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/32406
Bomb Compilation Thread http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/9924
Need other Compilation threads!
(Note, my other account got wiped for some reason, which is why I am making a new thread)

Tue, 10/04/2011 - 03:22
#1
Tadician's picture
Tadician
if u dont like them then

if u dont like them then dont use them

Tue, 10/04/2011 - 04:59
#2
Four-Eyes's picture
Four-Eyes
I agree with everything you

I agree with everything you said, there are just too many equipment that are better than the other ones in their category in every way.

Tue, 10/04/2011 - 07:20
#3
Chepo
Alchemers??

WTH are you talking about, alchemers have one of THE best charged attacks for guns, specially the more stars they have like the 5 star alchemer will fire 1 bullet that does nearly double the damage and it'll ricochet 4 bullets and those can bounce again and do damage (the damage is the same as normal bullets), so you have potential of doing basically x10 damage (much better than say the polaris charged attacked) , now magnus line and antigua line have close to useless charged attacks

Tue, 10/04/2011 - 13:34
#4
Goldmaker's picture
Goldmaker
"Alchemer Line - Currently,

"Alchemer Line - Currently, the alchemers have awful charge attacks that are not worth using. An improvement of some kind would put them in line with other guns."

Heck, no. Alchemer have a AWSOME CHARGE ATTACK.

Prismatech Line - This might be a balance issue, I would like to know if anyone uses this and finds it better than the other Alchemers.

Son im dissapoint.

Prismatech Line does more dmg than other alchemer becouse dont have ANY STATUS its only PURE DMG.

Now... Valiance + Nova Driver DMG+ Storm Driver STATUS effect + Catalyzer Explosion = Polaris... yeah sound OP....

Fri, 10/07/2011 - 02:28
#5
Kirnan's picture
Kirnan
Note:

I fixed some issues, given some dissenting information. I still dislike the alchemer charge attack...

Also, I need more links to the original threads that discuss balancing individual equipment types.

Fri, 10/07/2011 - 08:47
#6
Trying's picture
Trying
He probably put that there a

He probably put that there a long time ago before prismatech got buffed. Prismatech used to do the same damage as all the other status alchemers

Sat, 10/08/2011 - 11:16
#7
Kirnan's picture
Kirnan
Yeah

I just wanted some data on the Prismatech, although I have noticed that most people still prefer the Polaris over it.

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 22:44
#8
Sirfredforever
so true...

i gotta say, i agree, but especially with the cost of heat amps. 20% bonus for TWO DAYS costs 800?? Senseless. When u think about it, it actually is impossible to get enough extra heat from it to make it worth it.

Btw u were looking for confirmation on troika charge attack. Yeah, it's too slow and has a long but narrow hit zone. It needs either a wider hit area, to execute faster (just the start, should keep the delay after striking), or a little of both

I don't get what u mean about CIV sword, i thought the dmg bonus only made it better, as it still heats up to full dmg.

Vencint, your comment is as useless as the cautery sword. You missed the point of this thread

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 23:45
#9
Aljevoias's picture
Aljevoias
Agree for the most

Agree for the most part.

Stagger Storm and Callahan are actually really good in T3 lockdown though. Nobody gears to resist stun and Callahan is one of the few guns that's not Polaris and does enough damage to actually make you notice without forcing you to stand still and fire off a volley like Blitz Needle or a pepperbox.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 02:15
#10
Eons's picture
Eons
Radiant Silvermail is great

Radiant Silvermail is great for Ultimate Snarbolax Lair and shouldn't be changed.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 05:08
#11
Regalya's picture
Regalya
As a gunslinger i must imput

As a gunslinger i must imput Alchemers "SHINE" with CTR their charge attacks awsome.
as for shield i might add Dragonscale shield breaks quicker then it's equvelents (weather bug or working as intended)
Callahan charge kind of useless it might become useful if the impact explosion range expanded for better aoe damage
Heatboost price rubbish never heard anyone buying it mayhaps make it like 300-400 ce so peopple might buy it
Gunslinger set urgently need 2* version
Silvermail line uttherly useful for SL shouldnt be changed
Gunners need a shield that grants bonus to them anythign that goes ASI/DMG/CTR

Sun, 11/06/2011 - 12:40
#12
Kirnan's picture
Kirnan
Hurray

I am bringing this back, let me know what changes we need, people!

Sun, 11/06/2011 - 16:21
#13
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor
+1

Thank you for bringing it back. I noticed vencint said "If you don't like them, don't use them.", which is kind of blatantly wrong. This thread is about balancing items, so that there are less "trap items", like cautery sword, and so that there are more options for gear- most "good" players use one of a few gears.

Add to mercurial mail/helm that compared to mercurial demo, its bonuses are even less.
Take off the whole thing from swiftstrike- its perfectly fine and usable for gunners, especially ones bearing 6 shot guns like AP, and even some of the 3 shot ones like polaris.

Aside from swiftsrike buckler, I'd agree with all of these points- I really don't know why OOO hasn't done anything to fix these, despite how widely known they are.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 09:20
#14
Grey-Fawkes
About the Swiftstrike

I'm fairly certain that reload speed is effected by the shield; A friend of mine uses a Firo Alchemer and Antigua for T2 runs. He's tested the reload speeds of both with and without the SSB. I can attest that the Antigua's reload is indeed faster while he has the SSB equipped (The Firo's isn't as noticeable.)

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 10:48
#15
Beans's picture
Beans
First post is a little tough

First post is a little tough on the eyes.

Consider a format like

- Equipment Name
Changes I would make to it.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 16:35
#16
Triphorce's picture
Triphorce
Hmm..I agree with a lot of

Hmm..

I agree with a lot of this. Some armor sets or weapons are either downright better than others or terrible compared to their counterpart (e.g. Chaos set and Mad Bomber set).

Some points that you made were flawed, though. For example, you often labeled a lack of normal defense as a glaring issue. Normal defense is not needed for everything. All enemies in Tier 3 do pure damage types, and normal defense is only needed for gremlins in Tier 3. Armors without normal defense are designed for Tier 3.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 16:59
#17
Kraanx's picture
Kraanx
well....

bout the troika: combo not very strong, charge weak/uneffective, and leaves u unprotected.
in MY opinion, all it needs are a higher chance of causing strong effects, and the rocks back.
that'd solve it.

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