Neutral target / Depth 20 / VH Dmg

Sentenza: 55
Nova: 122

I've seen varying reports of attack speed so I'm not sure if any of them are reliable. I'll go test at ATH.

From my testing with ultra gun dmg boost running the JK mission. d15/16 i think?

Umbra - 105 a hit on jellies
sentenza - 53 a hit on jellies

My umbra has max ctr, so correctly fired charged shots still one shot jellies, and essentially felt faster, but that assumes I hit the charge correctly every time. Otherwise, I dig the new sentenza quite a bit and had i not rolled VH ctr on my umbra, i would think it was worthless.

On that same note, the charge sucks on the sentenza/ap imho.

"any regular driver users should be able to do the trick shot at least 50% of the time (assume ricochet just hit same target once, thus 2 hits total per successful shot)"

What? There is absolutely no way you can land double hits on your Driver 50% of the time. I don't really go for those since I mostly spam the charge any way but I'm a regular Driver user and those shots only happen like 5-10% of the time when I am trying, unless I'm standing still and sniping stationary targets. I don't think Drivers even reach 150% effectiveness in large group situations. Actually, they probably do, but still less than 200%.

I don't have auto-aim on. Are you shooting every opportunity you get, or are you carefully lining up shots?

Pardon me, but I find your estimate of 50% of your shots ricocheting into your target very difficult to believe. Could you provide video evidence of this?

I know the technique, but I find it nearly impossible to pull off consistently. Monsters move and unlike the charge shot ricochet technique, where you can simply place a shot to either side of the target and it'll work, the normal shot requires extremely precise placement and only works when you're standing at certain angles. If I've got all the time in the world to shoot at my target, I'll just use the charge attack instead.

I've been playing with the Sentenza a fair bit since the update to get a feel for how effective it is.
I've been using it alongside my Nova Driver with Slime Very high (I find that this aproximates the same damage as the shadow version. It generally does as much damage to slimes as to constructs/undead - a bit less in tier 3, but insignificantly.)

I'm finding even against single targets, the Nova EASILY out-DPS' sentenza because of how often I get ricochets either from my shot clipping inside of my target, or from bouncing off of obstacles, or boxes. Against groups, it's no contest. Naturally, I'm talking Jellies here, and this is without using the Nova Charge shot (which IMO, is in the top few attacks in the game for max damage in one shot.) I'd say somenub's estimate of 50% of shots getting a ricochet isn't too generous - it's very realistic combined with the likelihood of a shot bouncing back off of a wall or obstacle, his description of where to aim and technique is dead on, and often my shots are hitting the same target without my trying to do that.

Of course, generally you're not fighting a single monster, so the utility of the ricochets multiplies the usefulness of the driver, as well as the tendency and ease that you can hit a few targets with one impact (the antiguas do this too, but it's a bit harder.)

Oh the other hand, the Sentenza/AP have FAR greater effective range due to the actual range of the projectiles and faster speed (less misses at max range.)

When we were doing RIP, you may have noticed that I used my Magma driver in groups of slimes. However, against single targets or minis I still prefer my Sentenza. It's reliable extra damage. I've also found it pretty easy to hit two monsters at once with it. Sometimes it seems to pierce one and hit the one behind it.

I think it's just weird hitbox glitching.

The thing about using the Sent or AP is that you lose the AoE splits of the alchemers (which has been said a lot in this thread already).

Either way, Sentenza and AP are extremely viable. Whichever you take is your preference. AP and Sent win in terms of single target DPS.

You also sacrifice shock or freeze, which some might prefer because they are helpful, utility statuses.

Once you do shadow lairs as a pure / main gunner, a Hail Driver is extremely helpful. It also is extremely helpful outside of shadow lairs, being able to freeze and slow entire groups. I never ignore an enemy just because it is frozen, and I am constantly being helped by the freeze.

An Alchemer is much more helpful on devilites than an AP. Devilites just dodge right into the alchemer bullets, while AP bullets are have a speed which requires direct hitting them and have screwy hit boxes on small things as well as no splits, which splits are sometimes priceless on packs of devilites. In addition, the hail driver will help you lock down devilites with freeze, making killing them much easier. I never use any other gun besides my hail driver in Dark Cities.

Skip over what is between the lines if you want
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most will attempt to tell you that its freeze absolutely never works and you break it every time. That is simply not true, I would have to be going out of my way to constantly break the freezes which occasionally freeze entire groups. You will only be told exagerated, negative things about a Hail Driver from someone who has never used it.
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Let's not turn this thread into the Hail Driver arguement thread we have one of those.

I just predict me complimenting the Hail Driver will lead to bad things, because there are people that have never used it and 100% hate it even towards calling it entirely useless, call them naive especially because it shares the same raw damage as the storm / magma.

And no I am not naming names here though I know who is probably going to be reading this :3

You guys are on the right track here, I agree.

Single target DPS from straight numbers antigua line wins by a hair, but alchemers get better damage and mobility overall because of the more powerful individual shots, so you can spend more time moving as you gun.

The antiguas don't so much pierce enemies as when two are very close together it's easy to repeatedly get hits on both, especially once they're upgraded to 5*. Does indeed seem to be just from hitboxes.
On enemies that are both the same distance from you when shooting an alchemer and quite close together, you can hit both (with one impact, not ricochet, I mean.) With the antigua, this works better if one is slightly behind the other, rather than equidistant.

The antiguas are definitely worth making for a gunner; now that I'm more used to the new versions I find that when I do gun, I am mixing alchemer and either one of the antiguas for the utility of having both.

When I am moving over larger areas, I find I'm using the antigua for the longer range, and higher volume of fire for being able to quickly break blocks. In enclosed areas I find I'm favoring the higher damage per shot and lower decrease in mobility while firing of the alchemer.

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Also: Rawrcake is correct. The freezing alchemers line does have an annoying habit of sometimes unfreezing with ricochet, but it doesn't happen that much. I didn't get one because I was taken in by some of the complaining I've seen on the forum about it's tendency to unfreeze mobs it had just frozen.
When I got on the test server for the mission update, I got one with the intent of trying it out to see how it was for that, and it's NOT that bad.
I also found that it was more useful for popping off single shots, the incentive of getting occasional freeze and not wanting to break it with the follow up shot helped me learn to take a shot at one thing (instead of my normal double-tap I do with the nova) and then either move or fire at another target.
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