Blitz Needle Charge Damage on Vana - Pre vs post May 9th, 2012 patch
Wed, 05/09/2012 - 15:46
Numbers are with max damage. (shadowsun pieces + elite trueshots)
Pre-patch: 218 x 15 = 3,270
Post-patch: 289 x 15 = 4,335
Difference: 1,065 or 32%
Mask phase:
Pre-patch: 149 x 15 = 2,235
Post-patch: 239 x 15 = 3,585
Difference: 1,350 or 60%
Whoaaaa
Wed, 05/09/2012 - 16:04
#2
Interesting. I guess it makes
Interesting. I guess it makes sense that the gun dmg increase affected the charge damage.
In that regard, it makes a lot of sense that it went up by 32%.
Good explanation of the mask phase thing.
Your trial by error numbers were pretty spot on too! =)
My focus was more on just how much stronger the BN is against vana.
Wed, 05/09/2012 - 16:07
#3
...
Mind = Blown
...
Where did I put my Shadowsun set...
Wed, 05/09/2012 - 16:10
#4
Oh, and on trojans, which are
Oh, and on trojans, which are weak to pierce, the blitz needle with max damage did:
344 x 15 = 5,160 damage
Though I think it dies before the full 15 bullets can hit it. xD
I'm honestly not going to count it. Someone else I was with who did not have max damage was still able to kill trojans in a full party with no issues.
Wed, 05/09/2012 - 16:15
#5
With poison max dmg blitz
With poison max dmg blitz does 313 * 15 vs vanaduke.... gg.
Wed, 05/09/2012 - 16:18
#6
yep.
I usually run with VH gun+sword damage - before, I needed to have a PERFECT (all 15 bullets) charge in order to OHKO trojans in a 4man party. I have some breathing room now (literally - I can step back instead of being right next to the trojans).
In other news, I did deal SOME damage to try to pull a slag guard towards me with a normal shot when I did this, but I believe it is possible to OHKO Slag Guards with VH+ blitz charge now.
Thu, 05/10/2012 - 01:11
#7
...
Sypsy, I think your pre-patch numbers might be off. My blitz was doing 200 damage per hit to Vana (not mask) with only a medium damage bonus (it's doing 230 now with the same).
Thu, 05/10/2012 - 01:28
#8
@ Tiroth?
Really? I had vh
@ Tiroth?
Really? I had vh damge of 192 before, and with max dmg, 218....
200 dmg with only med would have been astounding. This excludes poison right?
I'm pretty sure about my numbers too.....
Thu, 05/10/2012 - 03:04
#9
(shadowsun pieces + elite
(shadowsun pieces + elite trueshots)
Maby going for damage Maximum! +2 bugs out the bonus somehow?
Just a suggestion.
~Luke
Thu, 05/10/2012 - 03:26
#10
You know what this means...
It'll be possible to get a 60 second vanaduke kill. No shiver, 4 blitz, ignore the Slag spawns. XD
Thu, 05/10/2012 - 03:51
#11
@Lukehandkooler
I wasn't
@Lukehandkooler
I wasn't claiming to use all the items that give gun damage over and above what is required to get max damage. (I'm not being inefficient/silly.) I was just listing them in the case that someone who is less knowledgeable about the game was wondering how to get gun damage, they had a place to start.
I also wasn't about to just go on revealing what loadout I had. It's not really the purpose of the thread.
But anyway, no, I did not have an over-kill loadout, so the damage done is as it should be.
@Zinqf
And yes, I definitely think this can be done very quickly.
1 Person can take out a slag guard in one charge. so if it needs to be done, those two spawns can be taken out in phase 5 very quickly.
For phase 2, I can get off two charges in the first three seconds if someone else waters, someone else just needs to get a sword combo in, and it'll die in the first water. This means with full blitz going, phase 4 should be done in the first water too...
I'd be tempted to try a speed vana with blitz max dmg only.
Thu, 05/10/2012 - 04:03
#12
@Sypsy
Why would you have players take out the slag guards when the shots can be used on Vanaduke instead? I wouldn't be surprised if it just took 2 charged shots per player in a 4 player group to push vana from one phase to the next.
If someone DOES release a <60 vana done this way, I'm sure OOO will have to balance that specific gun. The damage buff was to fix the low damage that the other guns were doing...not to buff Polaris, Supernova, or Blitz Needle lol.
Thu, 05/10/2012 - 04:15
#13
@Sypsy
I figured maby you had 2x shadowsun on for the shadow protection with a limited trinket selection or something, I wasnt trying to troll.
There was several posts I read once that are buried way WAY back in possibly the first or second ask a master gunslinger thread that presented a similar situation where two guys were either getting different results with the same loadout, or as I recall one fellow was claiming to be getting superior numbers with a loadout that was marginally less centered around damage. Perhaps the trinkets and SS pieces work slightly different, (multiplicative vs additive for example).
It would be nice if they had a section in the training hall with some monsters of different kinds that were typical of the last level of stratum 2-4-6 so that testing was more convenient.
~Luke
Thu, 05/10/2012 - 05:10
#14
@Tiroth I don't know for over
@Tiroth I don't know for over Medium, but your numbers are wrong. Before patch, it was 143 damage for no bonus and 170 for DB Med. I am affirmative of that. That's without poison of course. With poison and DB med, it was 192 or 193 if my memory is correct.
@Zinqf Unless you are going for a very fast kill, killing the 2 Slags in P5 is a way safer method. It only takes 2 charges at most for each, and then you are free to do Vanaduke without those pesky Slags crossing the field. You could freeze them, but that's a lot less reliable.
Anyway, I tested it earlier, and the difference in damage is huge.
Thu, 05/10/2012 - 06:48
#15
...
Sypsy: I'm pretty sure it was without poison. Can't exactly check now, though.
Fradow: I broke 200 pre-patch, and I only have a medium damage bonus available (one piece of shadowsun gear). So I don't know what happened.
Thu, 05/10/2012 - 07:50
#16
Either a bug, faulty memory
Either a bug, faulty memory or for whatever reason you had more than medium. I used to do FSC everyday, and even did a comparison between Blitz Needle and Plague Needle (here, last post, calculated with no DB : http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/35702) and I am certain about the 170 for no poison DB Med. The numbers the OP is stating seems fine to me.
Thu, 05/10/2012 - 10:54
#17
@Tiroth
Here's a video of someone else doing a solo run vs FSC pre-patch with max damage.
The numbers are the same as mine. 218 vana, 149 mask.
@Zinqf
As Fradow said, it would be safer to take out the slags, but in theory, to get the fastest speed, you would need to play dodgy dodgy with the slag guards, and that may eat up more time than a charge attacked used on the minions. My hunch is it would still be better to take them out at the start with 1 charge each, but a team would need to experiment for sure.
Thu, 05/10/2012 - 16:17
#18
Sypsy
I confirm max damage prepatch was 218 on vana. That being said, med dmg bonus on slags is 200, iirc, so its possible the damage numbers tiroth saw were on a slag, and not vana.
Thu, 05/10/2012 - 21:32
#19
Yep.
Yes, 218 with Max Damage Pre Patch is correct. I'd also like to throw out there that a T3 Poison Vial is equal to a Med Damage Boost for that period of time, adding a total of 24 damage, meaning low equals +12 damage.
I use 2 Elite Trueshots when I go there (VH), and when I throw a poison vial at Duke, it does 218 a shot w/ charge, making it equal to med. THIS IS ALL PRE-PATCH.
Thu, 05/10/2012 - 21:36
#20
More balanced
Looks like the guns arent gonna be ignored anymore.
That also explains why vana runs seem easier
Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:45
#21
@ thread was getting 261 per
@ thread was getting 261 per with charge with +dmg very high
Edit- Post patch no poison
Edit#2 w/Maximum!- After update, A * 1.1 * 1.2 = 290
289 /shrug
~Luke
Fri, 05/11/2012 - 01:26
#22
I have definitely OHKO slag
I have definitely OHKO slag guards with max damage.
Fri, 05/11/2012 - 03:08
#23
Noice!
Noice!
It's because of how damage calculation works. The resistance reduces by exact number, not by percentage
On mask phase, it has some resistance. Let me give you rough math calculation (I know it's not exactly right)
Let's just say your damage is A = 220, and mask resistance is B = 70
Mask Phase
Before update. A - B = 220 - 70 = 150
After update, A * 1.1 (gun) * 1.2 (charge) - B = 290 - 70 = 220
Normal Phase (no resistance)
Before update, A = 220
After update, A * 1.1 * 1.2 = 290