Minibosses

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Verodius's picture
Verodius

Warning: BIG post

Part 1: Summary
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Where would they appear?
Minibosses would appear at the end of a Stratum in the depth before the Terminal/Subtown, the Miniboss that appears depends on the Stratum in question:

- Jelbug appears if the stratum is Beast or Slime
- The Crimson Overseer appears if the stratum is Gremlins or Constructs
- Cerberite appears if the stratum is Undead or Fiend

A status (Fire,Shock,Poison,Freeze) Stratum can have any of the minibosses show up.

A Miniboss Depth has the icon of a Shield with a Skull on it, like a cross between the Boss and the Arena symbols (or, as Manalicious-Knight has suggested, the actual miniboss icon that I didn't know about!) . They play similar to "The Gauntlet" mission but the 3rd Arena is replaced with a much larger miniboss chamber. The theme used for the miniboss fights themselves would be either the 'Main Theme' or 'Boss 2'.

Verodius's picture
Verodius
Part 2: The Fights

Part 2: The Fights
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Miniboss 1: Jelbug
A recently discovered creature that appears to secrete Jelly as a Defense against enemies, because of this the Jellies hold it in high regard and will gladly come to its aid if needed. Drops 5,10 or 15 Primal Sparks (depending on the Tier) upon death.

Appearance
(Note: Best not follow these links if you don't like bugs!)

A Large (about 66% to 75% of Snarbys size) insect that resembles a cross between a Pillbug and a Cockroach, it's shell is covered in dozens of sharp spines, with a few clear spots that have 'pores' that ooze Jelly. It also has a pair of razor sharp forelimbs (something like these). Status Variants are a different colour. Higher tier versions have more spines and more vicious-looking forelimbs. His arena has a number of respawning explosive crates in it.

Main Ability:
Jelbug's main gimmick is his Jelly Shield, while the shield is up Jelbug has the resistances of a Slime (Strong to Piercing and Weak to Shadow, but does NOT trigger 'vs Slime' UVs) and several of his attacks have different effects. The shield breaks after it has taken enough damage, but it regenerates after a few seconds.

Melee Attack:
A fast 4-hit combo consisting of a Jab with each forelimb, followed by a Swing of each forelimb.

Ranged Attack:
If Jelly shield is active he spits out a large blob of Jelly (similar to the Chromalisks ranged spit, but larger.) At Tier 2 he also spawns a Lichen (or, for the Freeze version, an Ice Cube) while doing so, at Tier 3 he spits out several blobs (and therefor spawns several Lichens/Ice Cubes)
If Jelly shield is not active he flings half a dozen spines off his shell instead.

Special Attack 1 (Tier 2 & 3 only):
Jelbug jumps high into the air - curling up into a ball as he does so - and bounces around the Arena. Every time he hits the ground he either sends out several 'Jelly Bombs*' (if he has his Jelly Shield up) or Lichen Colony style ground-spikes (if he doesn't.)

*The small explosive globs Tier 2 & 3 Blast Cubes send out when they die.

Special Attack 2 (Tier 3 only):
Jelbug curls up into a ball and begins to roll around the arena, ricocheting off the walls and Stunning anyone it hits. While rolling around Jelbug can be shield-bashed by particularity daring Knights. If he hits (or is knocked into) 1-3 explosive crates he will be knocked on his back and made helpless for a short period of time.

While rolling Jelbug gains a speed bonus if he has Jelly Shield active, and a damage bonus if he does not.

(Jelbug Special Attack 2 Courtesy of Luguiru)
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Miniboss 2: Crimson Overseer
Hand-picked by the Crimson Order to make sure that the other Gremlins do as they are told, these individuals are authorized to use any means they determine necessary to make sure all goes according to plan. Drops 5,10 or 15 Forge Sparks (depending on the Tier) upon death.

Appearance
A Gremlin Riding a large armoured Scuttlebot, the Gremlin holds a shield in one hand and a High-tech Energy Whip in the other. A Rocket Puppy is mounted to the back of the Scuttlebot. Status Variants ride a Scuttlebot of their respective status. Higher tiers wear fancier gear and have more Armour on their Scuttlebot.

Main Ability:
Summons orbiting Energy Barriers to defend itself, similar to some Battlepods.

Melee Attack:
A 3-hit combo consisting of two lashes from the whip, followed by a Scuttlebot spit attack.

Ranged Attack:
The Rocket Puppy fires a rocket or two, similar to a regular Rocket Puppy.

Special Attack 1 (Tier 2 & 3 only):
The Gremlin throws out bombs that send out Retrode beams in either a '+' or a 'x' pattern when they detonate, similar to Seerus's Rocket Hammer. Tier 3 versions have longer beams.

Special Attack 2 (Tier 3 only):
The Scuttlebot walks to the center of the room, turns to face South and starts to fire a Roarmulus beam, it then slowly turns clockwise until it has done a full 360-degree sweep while the Overseer tosses out Retrode bombs (see above). The Scuttlebot is invulnerable while performing this attack.
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Miniboss 3: Cerberite
Massive creatures constructed out of Bones put together by professional Devilites and powered by dozens of Imprisoned Spirits, these monsters are one of the Clockworks more terrible inhabitants. Drops 5,10 or 15 Grim Sparks (depending on the Tier) upon death.

Appearance
A large, skeletal Beast with 3 Howlitzers for heads, it's body profile is a mix of Simian and Canine. Higher tier versions wear extra armour and Tier 3 versions also seem to glow from within. Status Variants vary in appearance:

- Fire variants have a thin layer of skin covering them, giving them a starved appearance along with having an aura of Ashes.
- Freeze resemble the Fire variant, but have a Frost aura instead.
- Poison variants resemble rotting corpses more than skeletons.
- Shock variants are Frankenstein-ish in appearance, seeming to be held together with bolts just as much as magic.

Main Ability:
When the Cerberite reaches 66% and 33% health a head will break off and begin to orbit the body, continuing to attack as they do so. In Tier 2 they are connected to the body with a 'tether' of dark orbs much like those of Arkus. In Tier 3 the heads orbit further from the body (and therefore have a longer tether) in addition to orbiting faster. These heads shoot 1,2 and 3 projectiles at a time for Tiers 1,2 and 3 respectively.

The heads can be destroyed separately from the main body, but will eventually respawn on the Tier 2 & 3 versions.

Melee Attack:
A 5-hit combo consisting of a Swipe from each claw followed by a bite from each head. The Cerberite can change directions mid-combo, like Snarbolax does.

Ranged Attack:
The Cerberite hunkers down and spits out several waves of bullets (a 6-bullet wave for Tier 1, a 6-bullet wave followed by a 3-bullet wave for Tier 2 and a 9-bullet wave followed by a 7-bullet wave for Tier 3.)

Special Attack 1 (Tier 2 & 3 only):
The Cerberite charges forward, leaving a short trail of Shadow Explosions as it does so. This charge is slower than that of the Trojan or the Slag Guard, but the Cerberite can turn to a limited extent while Charging to make up for this. At Tier 3 the charge also leaves a Status-Mist similar to that of Greavers.

Special Attack 2 (Tier 3 only):
The Cerberite's chest seems to open up and dozens of Angry Spirits (similar to the ones in the 'Rise or Fall' mission) fly out. These Spirits randomly wander around the Arena and will begin to detonate if a Knight walks into them. They cannot be killed (but can be knocked back/shield bashed) and will disappear on their own eventually.

Verodius's picture
Verodius
Part 3: The Items

Part 3: The Items
Each Item has a 2-star, 3/4-star and 5-star version, similar to the Crimson Hammer items. These cost 50,100 and 150 of their respective tokens.

NOTE: All damage figures assume a level 10 5-star version with no bonuses against an enemy neutral to it's damage type in Stratum 6
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Jelbug Items (Primal Sparks):

Bio Cannon series
A Piercing & Normal (60:40 ratio of Piercing to Normal damage) Handgun that has a very Biological appearance, almost looking like a living creature. This weapon has a firing speed of around 1 shot per second.

The Normal Attack fires out a burst 5 Spikes, like a shotgun. This gun has a 2-3 shot clip, Above-average knockback, a projectile speed slightly slower than that of the Blitz Needle regular attack (with the same range) and can be fired while moving.

The Charged Attack spit out 5 'Jelly Bombs' that explode after a second or two.

2-Star: Bio Cannon
3/4-Star: Savage Bio Cannon
5-Star: Bio Bombardier

Each Spike from the Normal attack does around 38-44 damage.
Each Jelly Bomb from the Charged attack does around 180-225 damage.

Jelbug Shield
A light shield modeled on the Jelbug with Normal and Elemental Defenses (at 5-star it would have around 5 bars of Normal, 4 bars of Elemental and 6 bars of health, assuming max level) This shield gives a Low Damage bonus with Bombs, and the 5-star version gives a Low Movement Speed Increase as well.

2-Star: Jelbug Shell
3/4-Star: Jelbug Shield
5-Star: Jelbug Carapace
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Overseer Items (Forge Sparks):

Prism Bomb series
An Elemental Bomb that sends 3 'rings' of explosions outwards when it detonates. Not as damaging as the Nitro or DBB on its own but can potentially out-damage them, as the enemies standing directly on the bomb when it detonates would be knocked back out into the first ring by the center explosion, then knocked into the second ring by the first ring and so forth.

2-Star: Prism Bomb
3/4-Star: Charged Prism Bomb
5-Star: Flawless Prism Bomb

This bomb has the Fuse speed of a DBB and at 5-star has the Radius of the Big Angry Bomb. The charge takes around 6 seconds with no bonuses. On a 5-star version of this bomb at Level 10 each explosion does around 100-125 damage.

Gigajoule Lash series
A Fast Elemental weapon resembling an energy whip, what it lacks in Damage it makes up for with Reach.

The Normal Attack is a 3-hit combo consisting of two lashes (to the left and to the right) followed by an overhead smack.

For the Charged Attack the wielder lashes the whip straight ahead, damaging the target and pulling them towards them.

2-Star: Energetic Lash
3/4-Star: Charged Lash
5-Star: Gigajoule Lash

Lash specifications (Ignore this if you don't care for stats:)
Normal Attacks 1 & 2: 90-100 damage per lash, 100 degree swings, 1.25-1.75 block range, speed is somewhere between the Calibur and the Cutter.
Normal Attack 3: 165-175 damage, no radius (it's a thin straight line), 1.50-2 block range, speed is that of a regular Calibur strike.

Charged Attack: 280-295 damage, no radius (similar to Normal attack 3), same range as Normal Attack 3, slightly slower than Normal Attack 3 and pulls in the target.
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Cerberite Items (Grim Sparks):

Howlitzer Set:
A set with Shadow & Elemental (or Shadow & Piercing) Defenses (about 6.5 bars of each at 5-star & max level), it strongly resembles the 'Chroma Suit' set but is modeled on a Howlitzer instead, it lacks the Tail of the Chroma suit and has a bit more armour. The 5-star armour also has a pair of shoulderpads that resemble Howlitzer skulls. Each part of the set gives a Low-Medium CTR with Handguns.

2-Star: Howlitzer Helm & Howlitzer Suit
3/4-Star: Cackling Helm & Cackling Cuirass
5-Star: Howling Helm & Howling Plate

Special Thanks to Luguiru & Manalicious-Knight for their Criticisms and Contributions.

Arctifice's picture
Arctifice
I'm at a loss for words.

Just...
+1

Devs, hire this man.

Electon's picture
Electon
NEED THIS NAO

This is perhaps one of the best ideas for SK I've ever herd!
The idea I like the most is the Howlitzer set, it sounds epic!
Devs need to take a look at this.
/Clap Verodius

Luguiru's picture
Luguiru
This thread
Arctifice's picture
Arctifice
Possible addendum/suggestion

It appears that the Howlitzer set is within the same boundaries of the ridiculously powerful Divine set. I think it needs a little more.
Perhaps some bonus to handguns?

Verodius's picture
Verodius
Thanks all!

@Artifice: Damnit I didn't realize a set with Shadow & Elemental def already existed <.> maybe a bonus of some sort would be a good idea.

EDIT: Gave the Howlitzer Set a Handgun CTR bonus, I don't think there's a set that has that.

@Luguiru: I look forward to seeing it (also damn that picture stares into my soul.)

Dziurka
+1

The more - the merrier! Anypony recalls Arkus?

Schattentag's picture
Schattentag
@Verodius

The Masks of Seerus have a Handgun CTR Bonus, but we know how that goes...

(Further response pending. Please hold.)

Verodius's picture
Verodius
True...

...but then again the Seerus Masks aren't really a set per se since they lack a matching armour to go with them.

Electon's picture
Electon
Still...

Perhaps the howlitzer set could be Shadow/piercing?
As far as my knowledge tells me there isn't a set with split Shadow and Piercing defence...
P.S: I told my friends about your idea, they really like it!

Verodius's picture
Verodius
@Electon

Thanks for the support of you and your Friends

and yes there is a set with Shadow & Piercing Defense: http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Radiant_Silvermail
EDIT: But that Armour doesn't appear to have a helmet to go with it...huh

Alpha-Stevo's picture
Alpha-Stevo
I think that the Jelbug

I think that the Jelbug should have a special attack in where he secretes a special ooze in an area that causes enemies defenses to go up. Cerebrite could give an Attack up with a howl, maybe? Dunno about the Overseer.

Luguiru's picture
Luguiru
BuenoJelly.jpg

Our current variety of enemy mechanics have been chained to the ceiling and headbutted far too many times to even consider them difficult; particle/animation lag is our greatest threat, the enemies themselves can be easily dispatched alone.

Why would they spawn in status stratums when it would be more community reliant to only allow them in their respective family based stratums? Of all the potential stratums (the four statusesuses, the six families, total of ten) they would have a one fifth probability to appear in a randomized gate. Allowing them in any status stratum would bump that rate up to two fifths of the time; almost every other randomized stratum would have a miniboss.

For the icon and arena replanning, yes; it would make arenas more threatening to the average user. However, for some the last massive wave of enemies is threatening enough. Unless the existing arena waves are changed, this would mean having two potential arena floors; we want these to be somewhat rare to encourage impatient users to burn energy to encounter them, not have a new boss to farm whenever they want. If we did have a new pattern of spawn waves for arenas in a secondary style, it would mean having a difficulty based arena rather than a Pikmin style spawn pattern; our current arenas just throw enemies at you constantly, like Pikmin rapidly attacking ceaselessly until defeat or ants attacking a somewhat larger spider than the individual ant. There are one to four of you and a couple dozen of them. The problem with this is a lack of thought based difficulty, rather picking them off or going for area of effect coverage. All you need is a Brandish/Divine Avenger/Vaporizer/Nitronome and that crowd of twenty or so is gone. However, does this mean to have an arena of just a few Trojans at a time? No, that would be stupid and annoying at the same time; Trojans can be outsmarted somewhat easily, though after three at once it goes from taking a little while to being there an hour for stupid reasons/raisins if you are soloing. If we had a second area it would have walled rooms instead of floating platforms to make use of Alchemers to encourage the community to use them again, seeing as everyone and their sister use a Polaris to spam everything everywhere forever and it annoys everyone else. Mobile bombers especially.

For the combat mechanics:

Jelbug

For a giant bug, it certainly is a giant bug; make it a little smaller so no one whines about it eating a real boss even though it is a miniboss. They are supposed to be less threatening/difficult, not eat their superiors. No matter how amusing it would be to see a giant bug eat Snarbolax. At least now it makes sense why you wanted status stratums to have them, to make them specialized; the problem with this is having a status variation of all four when they are supposed to be special. A while ago we had a Lichen for every status jelly, Toxilargo being the sole survivor of balance.

For your T3 exclusive attack on this miniboss, keep in mind this enemy concept has a spherical form it may take; use this to your advantage. "What do you mean?" Make it roll. Outside your hopping attack of creating spikes and what not, the Jelbug can curl up into a sphere and roll around the map similar to how Alchemer bullets bounce; the Jelbug curls up as it would for the other attack, but instead begins the imminent attack animation (the glow on the floor) in the direction of where it will roll, then proceeds to roll straight until it bumps into something in which case it bounces off and continues in the ricochet direction. If ran over, knight and enemy alike are inflicted with a 4/3 (good chance of moderate) stun. For this boss there could be certain objects which when bumped into cause the Jelbug itself to be incapacitated, uncurling and laying exposed for several seconds. This would be similar to how the bells work on beast family enemies but is not manually triggered. "Would this just be a more annoying Trojan charge?" No, while rolling it can be shield bumped to change its direction as shield bumping an enemy regularly causes it to bounce in direction of the path of reflection. That did not rhyme intentionally. It would turn an arena into a pinball arcade game without tilting.

Crimson Overseer

Yes. This is what all silly concepts strive for. A gremlin riding a giant robot which looks like something mountable to begin with. Why is the rider using a lance when they have science on their side? What are they, Devilites? No, get one of those rocketeer gremlins on there. When the giant Scuttlebot dies the rocketeer becomes active in combat to give users without the expansion pack a preview of how silly they are. The rocketeer can fire while mounted, though only if the giant Scuttlebot is not moving because firing a rocket launcher while moving is not convenient. The Scuttlebot itself should have two attacks: the regular three bullet shot, though larger bullets, and a laser. The bullets are obviously larger than regular Scuttlebot bullets, but the laser can vary by tier; T1 has a Retrode beam which simply fires as a projectile and does not linger, T2 is faster and goes a few spaces farther and lasts a few seconds, T3 can have a Roarmulus continous laser of death. This is for when it goes in the center while invulnerable; the T1 laser repetitively spits, the T2 laser is faster and covers a wider radius, the T3 laser forces knights to get out of the way. Giving the rider gremlin bombs would just annoy sword users when the shields annoy them to begin with. In each tier the attack and movement speed increases for the Scuttlebot as normal.

Cerberite

Cerberus, I see what you did there. Each of its heads are most likely Howlitzers, though giving each head the same mechanic as the tier it is in may prove obnoxious in T3; make it happen. The T1 Cerberite heads each fires one bullet at a time for the ranged attack, T2 each head fires three, T3 each head fires six. The tiny ghost snots, invulnerable temporarily? I hope there are at least places to hide, seeing as they detonate upon contact. The melee attack may as well be the Snarbolax biting attack but with two bites per head; at first it does six, then when its health drops there is less attacks to avoid.

For the rewards:

I am going to nail you on the weapon mechanics; nail you to my wall. Not the wall in my room, there is no room there. You would probably look nice above the fireplace, though. Stop squirming.

Keep in mind my primary activity around here is using a rubber chicken to slap weapon concepts into shape; the coach who never lets you take a break when you only ran two miles or did less than a hundred push ups. There is no crying in baseball.

I will demand exact/relative values ("a lot of element defense" is not valid; "# bars of element defense" is):

For swords:
Basic attacks:
Swing radius (Calibur/Brandish is one space in a 60 degree angle), swing speed (Calibur/Brandish, Cutter, Troika, etc.), swing combo (two swings per basic combo, etc.), swing angle (Calibur/Brandish is 60, Troika is about 120), extra effects (any status, specialized damage type(s), attacks cause projectiles to fire, etc.), damage rates (base this on a neutral target as specialized damage bonuses are not consistent with every weapon; the last swing is always more than the previous swing(s)).
Charge attacks:
Area of effect (if there is more than one damaging part of the charge, describe all parts and their respective areas of effect in damage and
specific details of the mechanic; this is basically the swing radius and angle), animation speed (Troika charge is somewhat slow, Brandish charge is fairly quick), movement speed while charging (most swords are fairly even).

For guns:
Basic attacks:
Exact/relative bullet speed rates ("slow boolits" is not valid; "the same bullet speed as {gun} is), bullets per clip (Antigua has six, Magnus has two), mobility (Autogun and Magnus do not let the user move while firing, Alchemers do), bullet path (travels # spaces before the bullet dissipates), extra effects (damage type, status if applicable, bullets bounce [Alchemer], bullets cause something to happen [Catalyzer mine detonation], etc.; why this gun is special), damage type (based on a neutral target).
Charge attacks:
Bullet speed, bullets fired in the charge attack and their damage rates,

For bombs:
There is no basic attack anymore so skip to the charge:
Blast radius (Nitronome is four, Big Angry is three), approximate fuse speed (Nitronome has a fast fuse, Big Angry has a slow fuse), base charge time (no charge bonuses; the standard for most weapons on base charge rate is five seconds), damage rate (base this on a neutral target; for bombs I will nail you on balancing more than guns and swords), movement speed while charging (Nitronome is fast, Big Angry is slow), any extra effects (statusesuses).

For statusesuses use the following "table":

Possibility to afflict:
Slight
Fair
Moderate
Good

Degree of affliction:
Weak
Minor
Moderate
Strong

1 = Slight/Weak
2 = Fair/Minor
3 = Moderate/Moderate
4 = Good/Strong

Ex:
Good chance of moderate {status} = 4/3 rate of {status}

Slight chance of weak {status} = 1/1 rate of {status}

It is not a ratio (2/3 does not equal two of three probability) as a fraction.

With this in mind and foot, prepare for science.

Bio Cannon

A shotgun has already been attempted; Autogun has several bullets per shot covered with balance, Valiance has close range knockback covered. This appears to simply plop explosive blobs of jelly at fairly short range; it has been discussed before and defeated because it would prove unuseful at close range when the user would still be within blast range of their own explosives, making it a gun-bomb more than appropriate, or be spammable and essentially be the basic attack bombs used to have.

Jelbug Shield

I am going to be as straightforward as possible for this: make it for bombers. The enemy it is based on essentially uses bomb related attacks (explosive blobs, spikes in the somewhat circular area). It does not fire projectiles, sneak up on knights to attack, or have significant movement speed; it hops to create quakes as a bomb rapidly planted attacks. Gaining bonuses in exchange for the defense a shield would normally have was well played, though.

Prism Bomb

This is either an overpowered combination of Dark Retribution with Nitronome or playing pinball with enemies; either way, specific damage rates and areas of effect determine whether the mechanic is overpowered. Beep boop.

Kontarion

Every time someone tries to make a lance/spear mechanic they either copy the Flourish mechanic or steal how Slag Guards work, which are both similar in a way. Heavy swords should not have three hits in the basic combo. The hammer is an exception. Lances were not used as our heavy swords work, but polearms do. I had previously planned to work on a mechanic for polearms and spear weapons but they would either outclass the heavy mechanic, be part of the heavy mechanic, or be stupid. The Slag Guard mechanic would essentially be an overpowered version of the Flourish line, and we all know how people feel about how it already works.

Howlitzer set

For being based on an enemy weak to element, it sure has defense against element; derp. I know we already have split shadow-normal on two sets, Snarbolax (more normal than shadow) and Skelly (more shadow than normal), but keep in mind what it is based on: a turret. Considering most projectiles, enemy and player created alike, are not normal damage and turrets are easily taken down by guns it makes less sense to be resistant to what should be its downfall. Keep in mind giving charge time reduction buffs to equipment means significantly reduced defensive ability, possibly meaning having only shadow damage and no second defense type; it would be crippled defensively, but would make it the blitzkrieg gunner set sought by the veteran gunslingers; sacrifice defense, get more offensive buffs.

As for the "special" rewards from the minibosses and how to obtain the miniboss weapons, keep in mind there are many users who have stocked several hundred of each of the three regular tokens. If they were given the same direct token reward system as existing bosses have they would just be new bosses, not that there is a problem with that necessarily; except where they are not guaranteed to appear in a gate. By using existing tokens to obtain the equipment veterans would just pump their giant pool into Brinks to get everything instantly, but a new token system would force users to actually play through a few times to get the new content.

Looking back over this post, I am amazed how much I can write up without hardcore effort; I just let my thoughts ooze out of my eyeballs and all of this happens. I rarely go back and edit, aside from the occasional typo and/or incorrectly placed word (hats and buckets are not the same thing). Where is this oozing when I need it?

Bluebrawler's picture
Bluebrawler
this thread

i will return when i upload my downfall parody

Verodius's picture
Verodius
@Luguiru

Thanks for your criticism, I'll try and make a few amendments. (EDIT: I've made a few but I don't have time to look over the whole thing just now)

I do have a few things to say though:

On the Miniboss levels: They wouldn't replace Arenas, they'd just be a new type of level that (mostly) resembles an arena, like the Gauntlet was.

On Jelbug: Yeah slightly smaller than Snarby might be a better idea.

On Jelbug's "roll" attack: I did actually consider giving him a roll ability, but I thought it'd overlap with Bounce a bit too much. But what you've suggested sounds good.

On Jelbug's shield: That might be a good idea now I think about it.

On Crimson Overseers bombs: How would they annoy Swordies in particular? Maybe I didn't make it clear enough, but the bombs are randomly thrown around the arena (like Roarmulus missiles or Vana's Shadow Fire, but thrown instead of raining down from above), he doesn't actually drop them like Gremlin Demos do

On Cerberite's Heads: Perhaps the Severed heads could be slightly less effective than regular Howlitzer heads?

On Cerberite's Spirits: They wouldn't take up that much of the arena, but maybe the detonation shouldn't be instant, which would let you knockback or shield bash them.

On the Howlitzer set: The Wolver and Chroma sets are resistant to Piercing, that doesn't make much sense either.

On the new items in general: I did consider giving the minibosses their own tokens, but I wanted to try and make the Sparks something worth collecting because as is they're kinda useless. Prehaps the Sparks could be used to buy the Miniboss tokens at a 5/10:1 ratio or something?

P.S. I know what you mean by just letting it all ooze out.

Kfredje
What about adding Tortodrone

What about adding Tortodrone again? He was in Emerald Axis during preview event and know appears to be sleeping somewhere hidden from us :(

Schattentag's picture
Schattentag
dat further response

My reaction to this thread in general:
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/21152823.jpg

Levels
I feel like these guys actually deserve have a little more of a thematic touch to their levels, similar to Briar Bone Barrage for the Toxilargo. Jelbugs could have a forest-like level whose appearance takes after the Gloaming Wildwoods. Crimson Overseers could have a sort of abandoned depot level similar to those of the new Rescue Camp missions. Cerberites could reside in levels styled like a soldier's graveyard.

According to the file name on the wiki, this icon is for minibosses, and it's used for Briar Bone Barrage (Toxilargo) and Stygian Steeds (Trojans). If the minibosses you've suggested resided in more thematic levels, I feel like this icon might as well represent them.

Jelbug: appearance/mechanics
The Jelbug sounds very interesting. As far as I can remember there haven't been any decent insect enemy ideas (spiders are not insects). Regarding the appearance of the forelimbs, I assume you mean something like this? This could make for special attack for Tier 3 version: a simple grab and bite using said forelimbs and its mouth (respectively). The problem with this is that a grab/bite would cross over into the standard jab/swing attack, so perhaps the swings in T3 could be changed to grabs instead?

You already listed one issue I have with rolling as an additional attack, and that's that it's (yo whatup, grammar?) similar to bouncing. Given the choice between the two, I would say rolling suits insect behavior more than bouncing does, but that isn't really a valid argument - Electrolisks are lizards that spit high-voltage goop, and slimes produce solid spikes underground (okayface.jpg) - so I'll disregard it. The other issue I have specifically addresses Luguiru's suggestion, and it's that existing ricochet behavior would make this roll attack highly unpredictable, likely resulting in rage similar to that produced by ninja attacks from Slag Guards. That said, it probably shouldn't be terribly difficult to program a realistic ricochet, making Luguiru's rolling suggestion a favorable one.

Crimson Overseer: appearance/mechanics
I must say, I liked your Gremlin War Walker idea a little more than the Crimson Overseer, but this one has its merits. For one, it seems a little more feasible both in terms of mechanics and appearance (still haven't gotten around to making a War Walker model in Spiral-Spy, sorry). Unfortunately, my unimaginative brain wants me to tell you that "a bite from the Scuttlebot" seems a little strange.

The aforementioned unimaginative brain also wants me to tell you that (as Luguiru said) lances don't seem to fit with Gremlins' existing weapon themes, even if they look like this. However, I think it makes even less sense for them to have mortars - these guys are supposedly meant to keep gremlin workers in line, so why not give them something to goad said workers. Something like a whip, perhaps?

I think my only other issue with the idea is that the Tier 3 special attack would indubitably reduce my already-bad framerate to a nonexistent one.

Cerberite: appearance/mechanics
Heads: One way to differentiate them from Howlitzer heads could be just making it so they don't explode upon destruction.
Spirits: Are these things going to have some kind of targeting mechanic at all? For example, if a knight walks within a range (say 30º) of the current direction of spirits' "walking", will the spirits begin to chase said knight? As for detonation, it would probably be okay for them to just directly take after the lost spirits.

Equipment
I won't pretend to have the patience of Luguiru when it comes to hammering out equipment mechanics. I'll leave you two to decide on exact damage outputs. You may with to specify in the OP that your damage numbers for the Bio Cannon are for the 5* version (assuming they are).

Most of the ideas seem alright to me except for the lances, and Luguiru's already covered what I would have said. In line with my suggestion that Crimson Overseers have whips, said whips might as well take the place of the Kontarion series as token rewards.

Final notes
Thank you for putting so much time and effort into this thread. Good stuff.
Since you said the miniboss levels would appear before terminals and subtowns, would it be safe to make the assumption that they would be Arcade-only?

Verodius's picture
Verodius
@Manalicious-Knight

Firstly: Holy [scrap], you remembered those?! (on your references to my old Gremlin Mech and Whip suggestions), I admit I was considering having the Gremlin mech as the 'Forge' Miniboss, but I felt kinda bad just recycling the Cerberite idea.

I didn't realize there was already a mini-boss icon, I'll update the summary with that. That bug picture is more-or-less what I pictured Jelbug as having, so good job there.

I admit the main reason I gave the Overseer a Lance was because we could do with a Heavy Piercing Sword, (but then again a Light Elemental Sword would be welcome as well, and one of my Whip ideas was an energy whip so maybe I'll swap one for the other...)

Yes the Mini-bosses would be Arcade only, though I suppose there's no real reason they couldn't be in the odd mission or two.

Luguiru's picture
Luguiru
SlowpokeLuguiru.jpg

I have not checked recently if they still exist, but have you seen the "miniboss" stratum images? I forget what the two floors before it are, but the floor image itself looks like a little Gun Puppy with sharp teeth. In the fiend one they had a bunch of trojans, in a jelly one they had Toxilargo. They gave decent payouts but were not too common and only seemed to appear in T3. If they removed it, reimplementing it with these new bosses ought to kick start Arcade runs again for a while.

For the Overseer, I read it as the gremlin demo bombs; in T3 they are horribly obnoxious at close range. It makes more sense to have the Roarmulus style aerial missiles but with slightly less area of effect; I have not done Roarmulus in a while, though my memory says the aerial missiles had a radius of three, about four or five are fired at once, and they took approximately three seconds to detonate upon the blast range becoming visible.

What do you mean by making the Howlitzer heads less effective? Less bullets? Less damage? Less down payment until 2014?

When it makes the little snots I imagine about a third of the room flooded with them like in the old mission they are currently in. Depending on how many of these are vomited and the size of the battle room would determine whether this is fair or obnoxious.

Yes, but Howlitzers are fairly offensive turrets; their head still wants to kill you even after it dies. None of the equipment we have has a pure non-normal defense, I thought it would be interesting to offer something more offense based than the Chaos set and its +2 universal damage and charge. I suppose the real question is whether the defense types for enemy based sets are also based on the enemy or based on how it is supposed to be used. Most sets have split normal defense to protect against melee attacks, though as we all know turrets can be outmaneouvered at close range while the turret takes a few seconds of immobility to fire. Most guns are element, and turrets can be counter fired by long range projectiles against their own. The most pierce weapons are in swords with the three Flourish lines and Snarble Barb line. This could be heavily debated; giving it pierce defense would counter the kamikaze head explosion upon contact, but giving it element defense would mean countering the majority of commonly used swords (Brandishes, Seerus hammers, Divine Avenger). If you feel colorful it could have a little of both pierce and element and keep its shadow somewhat decent.

The following may cause inflation.

At Brinks users can exchange tokens for items (materials, trinkets, equipment). A 5* trinket sells to an NPC for 10kCr. A 5* trinket costs a hundred of the classic tokens (Forge, Grim, Primal) and is bound upon exchange with Brinks. There are NPCs in the Bazaar to exchange these trinkets for 10kCr. For the 5* trinkets a damage defense trinket gives about two and a half bars against a specialized defense and the status trinkets give about two bars of defense against a single status.

Juances's picture
Juances
~

What about just having a chance for them to appear. This kinda fixes some of the issues.

Or maybe making special requriement for them to appear like having at least one player alive with 0 deaths from the previous subtown on the party, or using a total of 3 pills or less,etc.

Verodius's picture
Verodius
@Luguiru

Actually there are about three sets that don't have any Normal resistance at all.

I felt Elemental & Shadow would be good because It's a Gunner set and the majority of ranged enemies are either Elemental or Shadow, barring the Polyps and the occasional Lichen Colony.

Electon's picture
Electon
Stay alive!

This thread is to good to be buried in the graveyard! Please Devs! We need you!

Luguiru's picture
Luguiru
Yurr

Silvermail is only the armor, there is no helmet or shield to go with it; there may be something in the future, but until then it is not a set. Unless I was typing with my feet I believe I stated most sets have split normal defense.

As a gunner-keep-your-distance sort of armor it would be sensible to give it another specialized defense instead of normal, but element would not suit the Howlitzer based equipment. With split element-shadow it would imitate Divine, but with split pierce-shadow it would imitate Silvermail; or compensate with having a little of both pierce and element while retaining shadow for a somewhat decent set all around except against normal, in which case you get nailed by melee attacks. I understand what you mean by elemental damage being dealt through projectiles often, but refer back to what it is based on; Howlitzers are fairly offensive based, even when they die they still want to attack. If I were you I would just make it all shadow and keep that lone defense somewhat high to compensate for the lack of split defense types, but if you want to split it then by all means do so.

I am now a bucket of thumbs.

Electon's picture
Electon
Piercing/Shadow FTW!

Considering that there is only 1 set that has pierce/shad split without a helm to go with it. And there probably isn't gonna be a helm for it any-time soon.
Since you said it would be like a chroma set, and there's two chroma sets with different damage resits. (AKA: Virulisk set piercing and Salamander set Elemental)
Though Im probably gonna get told off because Im not much of a gun-slinger myself, as Verodius said that's its a gunner set.
Also If this idea is implemented into the game I WILL change my game-play style to gun-slinger. I promise!

Verodius's picture
Verodius
Well I thought the Howlitzer

Well I thought the Howlitzer armour should be a gunner set because Howlitzers are ranged enemies, just as the Wolver sets are melee-based. And when I said it was like the Chroma set I meant in general appearance.

Updated the Items part to say that the Howlitzers second defense could be Piercing or Elemental though.

Electon's picture
Electon
On the other hand...

Could we discuss the weapons? Personally the bio cannon sounds like a compliment to the howiltzer set...

Verodius's picture
Verodius
They work well together.

When coming up with the miniboss items I tried to make sure that between them they made a full set. And in hindsight it seems like they'd mesh quite well together:

- The Howlitzer set provides charge bonuses...
- ...so that the Bio Blaster can use it's charge attack more quickly...
- ...while the Jelbug Shield lets them get away when needed.
- The Bomb can clear out crowds
and
- The Crimson Overseers new Energy Whip (replaces the Kontarion series, look at parts 2 & 3 to see the updates) can be used to pull enemies close to give the Bio Blaster a chance to do more damage with it's regular (shotgun) attack.

EDIT: It appears editing a post bumps the thread?

Headsifter's picture
Headsifter
^_^

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMM....... thats good OJ

Luguiru's picture
Luguiru
Grenades

Be very careful using that word to describe a weapon.

Keep in mind the equipment is supposed to be useful for various scenarios. It can still be favored in a few over others, but do not isolate it.

Do not abuse edit-bumping, it annoys people who notice it; like me.

Electon's picture
Electon
Don't die on me!

I have a bad feeling that this idea isn't meant to be.....
/cry