Spiral Knights - Treasure boxes Gear/Area relationship

Treasure boxes Gear/Area relationship

112 replies [Last post]

Tue, 04/26/2011 - 20:27

Pupu

Legacy Username

I'm starting to think that gear drops are dependent on the area where you break the boxes.

The following boxes only drop mats, yet look the same as every other box, and the very same box has given me a Skelly Mask twice.
See screenshots (chat log):
http://i52.tinypic.com/z4q9y.png
http://i53.tinypic.com/2ntzd4l.png

Also I got a poison atomizer in a poison wolvers den. I have no screenshot of getting it though.

I think this also applies to tokens.

Anyone got any more evidence to support my theory?

Tue, 04/26/2011 - 20:31

Hazel

I've gotten a shocking edge

I've gotten a shocking edge in a Power Plant stage in T1.

Tue, 04/26/2011 - 20:41

Milkman

For Tokens it definitely

For Tokens it definitely depends on what type of stage you're in.

I also think I got circuit breaker armour in a shock stage

Tue, 04/26/2011 - 20:44

Alexandriea

Had a guild mate get a Skelly

Had a guild mate get a Skelly Mask(?) in the first floor of the citadel. (Crates at the very end)

Tue, 04/26/2011 - 20:44

Dogrock

I've seen Volcanic Salamander

I've seen Volcanic Salamander drop in a T3 Aurora Isles. Makes sense with all the Chromalisks

Also a Jelly Helm drop... in the Jelly Palace.

Tue, 04/26/2011 - 20:47

Metaknight

got a jelly shield in an

got a jelly shield in an aurora isles level, Tier 1

Wed, 04/27/2011 - 06:37

ngelicdark

Legacy Username

Gear that I've seen..

A few drops guildies and I have collected/seen the last few weeks:

Salamander suit (4*) at Jelly King's Bonus locked gate with the 4th key (T2) Guildie has it.
Graviton Bomb (4*) at one of the Spiral Courts from the old Ruby Rook gate (T3) Guildie had it but sold it.
Graviton VORTEX. YES VORTEX. I LANDED THIS ONE. (dammit i didn't print screen it..) Again, same thing as the graviton bomb; spiral court, Ruby Rook gate (T3) My guild master currently wields it. He was also there when it dropped >.>

That's all I know for now =X

Wed, 04/27/2011 - 06:02

Kawaii_Desu

Legacy Username

One of my friends got a

One of my friends got a Quicksilver Helm from the treasure room after the Jelly King.
And another one got a Vile Striker from a Danger Room, Tier 2, Poison.

Wed, 04/27/2011 - 06:08

culture

Legacy Username

Maybe, need more data

Last night someone got a Brute Jelly Mail during a Jelly King run. It was in the treasure room in Red Carpet Runaround where you need the fourth key to open the gate on the left.

I got a Spiral Demo Helm in a T2 Scarlet Fortress. Our party had three bombers in full bomber gear with 1-3 bombs each.

Wed, 04/27/2011 - 06:34

layka

Legacy Username

Earlier today I got a Scary

Earlier today I got a Scary Skelly Mask in one of the Scarlet Fortress levels (T2)

A few weeks ago I got a 2* Skelly Mask, can't remember where exactly, possibly Treasure Vault, but my memory isn't that good.

Wed, 04/27/2011 - 07:33

#10

Shani

Legacy Username

T2 vault, saw a Deconstructor

T2 vault, saw a Deconstructor Bomb drop.

Wed, 04/27/2011 - 08:24

#11

Katmint

I got a Chroma Suit (3*) from

I got a Chroma Suit (3*) from one of the treasure boxes after killing the Jelly King. Out of place at first glance, but it actually makes sense since the armor has Damage Bonus Vs. Slime. :P

Wed, 04/27/2011 - 08:50

#12

Splinter

It's interesting that gear

It's interesting that gear and tokens (this makes sense) are tied to the level type / the enemy type of where you are. Helpful if you are looking for a lucky drop of a specific type.

Wed, 04/27/2011 - 09:55

#13

OnmyojiOmn

Legacy Username

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/c

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/correlation.png

A hundred items drop, and a couple corresponded to their drop locations. Clearly drops depend on level! MAGIC IS REAL!

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 19:02

#14

Pupu

Legacy Username

@OnmyojiOmn
Nobody has provided the needed counterexample yet.

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 19:23

#15

Tisiphone

I got a Shadowtech Alchemer

I got a Shadowtech Alchemer from T1 Spiral Fortress, it was across all the spikes at the bottom.

Gave it to a friend.

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 23:13

#16

Hassohappa

Legacy Username

I got an owlite shield from a

I got an owlite shield from a treasure vault in t1. Don't remember any other details unfortunately.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 11:39

#17

Vichtorya

D12 Danger Area reward: Rock Salt Bomb

Another data point for you:

Got: Rock Salt Bomb
From: Reward boxes after a Depth 12 Danger Room (shock & spike trap corners).
Area: Power Complex: Slimeway

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 11:53

#18

Kaley

I got a Wolver Cap yesterday

I got a Wolver Cap yesterday on floor 15 before Jelly King. Not sure what the relationship could be, but maybe someone else can see it?

@OnmyojiOmn That's one of my favorites of the Xkcd series. You get +1000 bonus points in my eyes for quoting it. :D

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 21:00

#19

Pupu

Legacy Username

Bump

Looking for some more info.
I'll move this to the wiki section and put it in a wiki article later.

Additional info:
Blackened crest drops from arena treasure boxes.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 21:07

#20

Gwenyvier

Friend found a Magma

Friend found a Magma Driver(not sure where), I found a Jelly Helm in the JK floors, Toxic Vaporizer on some random poison clockwork tunnel, and a Radiant Sun Shards Recipe I have not a clue where.

~Gwen

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 23:07

#21

Zouless

Got a needleshot during one

Got a needleshot during one of t2 arena, and a brute jelly mail at one of the jelly depths

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 23:09

#22

drmchsr0

Legacy Username

I don't think I've ever got a

I don't think I've ever got a gear drop ever in my time playing the game.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 23:43

#23

kbe2k11

Legacy Username

Drake Scale Mail somewhere in

Drake Scale Mail somewhere in T2 wish I had seen exactly where but I'm never paying attention to drops.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 08:18

#24

Poul

early

Early the game went open I found a Wise owlite shield in scarlet fortress chest on T3.

Jelly helm on red carpet level from jelly king fortress.

Arc razor from a treasure vault.

That's all I have found.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 08:22

#25

Choja

Legacy Username

Theory

Drop priority from highest to lowest:
Related effect > attribute (piercing/elemental/shadow) > random junk

Listing all the drops posted here:
Poison Atomizer -> Poison Wolvers (Poison - effect)
Shocking Edge -> Power Plant (Shock - effect)
Circuit Breaker Armor -> Shock (Shock resistance - effect? or Elemental - attribute)
Skelly Mask -> FSC first floor (Shadow - attribute)
Volcanic Salamander -> T3 Aurora Isles (Damage Bonus vs Slime - effect)
Jelly Helm -> Jelly Palace (Piercing - attribute)
Jelly Shield -> T1 Aurora Isles (Piercing - attribute)
Salamander Suit -> Jelly Palace (Damage Bonus vs Slime - effect)
Graviton Bomb -> Spiral Court (Shadow - attribute)
Graviton Vortex -> Spiral Court (Shadow - attribute)
Quicksilver Helm -> Jelly King (Piercing - attribute)
Vile Striker -> Danger Room, Poison (Poison - effect)
Brute Jelly Mail -> Jelly Palace (Piercing - attribute)
Spiral Demo Helm -> Scarlet Fortress (random junk)
Scary Skelly Mask -> Scarlet Fortress (Shadow - attribute)
Skelly Mask -> ???, Treasure Vault (TREASURE VAULT)
Deconstructor -> Treasure Vault (TREASURE VAULT)
Chroma Suit -> Jelly King (Damage Bonus vs Slime - effect)
Shadowtech Alchemer -> Spiral Fortress?, Scarlet Fortress (Shadow - attribute)
Owlite Shield -> Treasure Vault (TREASURE VAULT)
Rock Salt Bomb -> Depth 12 Danger Room - Power Complex: Slimeway (Damage Bonus vs Slime - effect)
Wolver Cap -> Jelly King (Piercing - attribute)

Notes:
TREASURE VAULT - Vaults are a wildcard and probably contain every item in the game, which is why they probably are not very good data points... maybe. The difference, like the other drops, is the strata you're in will pick which star level item will drop.

Salamander/Volcanic Salamander - Found it weird that Volcanic was found in Aurora Isles considering its Elemental - attribute (Constructs are weak against elemental!) until I saw the Salamander Suit drop from Jelly Palace and noticed that both had a Damage Bonus vs Slime - effect, concluding that drops with an effect overrides other drops which have only attributes.

This is only a theory, take with a grain of rock salt and throw it at a jelly.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 08:24

#26

jooozek

Legacy Username

Crystal Bomb from someone

Crystal Bomb from someone tell me the name of this level

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 10:17

#27

Heron

end of t2 in graveyard -

end of t2 in graveyard - avenger.
t3 wolf den - wolf cap.
jk final room - scale shield.
vanaduke final room - skully shield.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 10:50

#28

Sumomo

I'll add what I can

I'll add what I can remember.

Static Edge - some shock level

Scary Skelly Shield - Concrete Jungle (undead level)

Can't remember where I got my Super Slime Slasher recently. I know I got more, too, but can't remember what or where.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 10:50

#29

kbe2k11

Legacy Username

Wow finding Avenger would be

Wow finding Avenger would be nice.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 17:30

#30

nearo

Legacy Username

Hm..

Got a skelly shield during a vana run once, so it sure seems to match up.
sigh, how'd you get two!? I've only even seen one weapon drop in all my immense overplaying .3.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 17:40

#31

Volkani

My points...

Virulisk Suit - Found on strata 3 poison theme a couple of weeks ago when it was the lead-in to JK
Crystal Bomb - Neutral/Slime Clockwork Tunnels, Depth 14, found in a red box from a danger room
Strike Needle, Ionized Salt Bomb - In the boxes after JK.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 17:52

#32

kakelgis

Legacy Username

A few notes: Was Blackened

A few notes:

Was Blackened Crest being obtainable ever confirmed in-game? It's easy to fake screenshots, and even more when you can just edit the game files.
Got a Graviton Bomb from Firestorm Citadel: Charred Court ages ago.
The treasure boxes you find on Firestorm Citadel seem to drop Flame Souls every now and then, although I haven't ever seen any other 5* drop from them. (except for maybe reaper rib? though I'm not sure if that was from the treasure box.)
Back in the first weeks of the game, a guildmate obtained a Dragon Scale Mail from a treasure box somewhere on Firestorm Citadel. I don't remember the exact level or who exactly obtained it.
I remember seeing at least two Skelly Shield drops on Firestorm Citadel, aswell.

There's some other drops that I don't remember right now, but yeah, pretty sure there's some sort of relation. Only if gear drops were more common, this wouldn't be so hard to notice, and would actually make a difference!

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 17:57

#33

Njthug

What I found

Gravitation Bomb --- T3 Danger Room Drops (From Boxes)

Plague Essence --- T3 Totem Trouble Map

Flame Soul --- Firestorm Ashen's Armory (something like that name)

Jelly Mail --- Jelly King

Needle Shot -- Jelly King

That is all I remember =0

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 18:37

#34

Katmint

In addition to the already

In addition to the already mentioned Chroma Suit from post-JK boxes:

Chroma Mask (post-JK boxes)

Jelly Mail (Red Carpet Runaround fourth key treasure boxes)

Super Slime Slasher (some Tier 1 treasure vault)

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 18:46

#35

Dasparian

@Pupu RE: Blackened Crest

Is there a Tier relationship involved as well? Did you get the drop in a T2 or T3 Arena?

Also I've always been fairly sure the Crest would drop in Arenas; glad to see my suspicions proved correct.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 19:10

#36

Lithanium

Lucky

In every single day I've played, iv gotten exactly one drop: gel drop. In sinful steps.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 20:57

#37

Pupu

Legacy Username

About the crest:
I didn't get the drop, but the info is in this thread:
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/7058#comment-39955
Seemed pretty legit, since the description was missing from the wiki at the time, as to photoshop it into an image.
And getting descriptions from the game files is possible, but most people don't know how to.
We never got the confirmation from Otrapas though.

Wed, 06/01/2011 - 01:46

#38

OnmyojiOmn

Legacy Username

ITT: confirmation bias and

ITT: confirmation bias and magical thinking.

Wed, 06/01/2011 - 03:32

#39

Algol-Sixty

the only item drop I've had

the only item drop I've had (or know of from my guild) is a spiral demo suit from the third of the three arenas above the current JK. Lot of gremlin bombers.

OnmyojiOmn: Yes, a random sample would be better than the data collected here, but this data is still useful. Human nature being what it is, people would be spewing out counter examples, if there were a bunch. Feel free to ignore this thread though.

Wed, 06/01/2011 - 05:53

#40

Loki

Legacy Username

@Onmyoji

Actually, there's more data to show that we're all correct than there is to show otherwise. In fact, there's 100% no data showing otherwise, care to provide some?

On-topic: I've noticed something, and was wondering if anyone had a solid answer: I've noticed monster families seem ''paired'' with others.

Beast + Slime
Gremlin + Construct
Fiend + Undead

Are they in fact ''paired''? They seem to share the same type of equipment and tokens with whatever they're paired with.

Wed, 06/01/2011 - 18:00

#41

Pupu

Legacy Username

Nah

@OnmyojiOmn
So this is all a giant coincidence?

Also just got an awesome drop from a Vanaduke box, Blazebreak armor, derp:
http://i54.tinypic.com/2jbmdk4.jpg

Sun, 06/05/2011 - 20:08

#42

Providence

Legacy Username

Wolver Coat dropped from a

Wolver Coat dropped from a green chest in Jigsaw Valley: Emerald Axis. Depth 15.

Drops certainly do fit their themes...

Sun, 06/05/2011 - 20:50

#43

Algol-Sixty

I got a skelly mask on an

I got a skelly mask on an undead stratum on level with a lot of zombies.

Sun, 06/05/2011 - 22:03

#44

Splinter

Got a toxic vaporizer in

Got a toxic vaporizer in concrete jungle - poison and zombies everywhere. Tier 3.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 07:54

#45

Trouser

OnmyojiOmn isn't saying it's

OnmyojiOmn isn't saying it's a giant coincidence that the reports tend to support drops matching stratum themes, but that of all the many items dropped throughout the game to all players, the ones which coincidentally match the stratum themes are the most memorable and likely to be reported. Given a large pool of drops, coincidences are expected. Characterizing a collection of coincidences as "all a giant coincidence" is therefore misleading.

I've received a force buckler, a shadowtech alchemer, and a prismatech alchemer, mostly from arenas. A few days ago, my friend got a hunting blade. I think that was in an arena, too, but I'm not sure. I don't remember what the stratum themes were for any of these. I've seen a couple of other things drop and go to other players, but I don't even remember what they were. Why not? It wasn't interesting.

Does this mean there isn't a correlation of drops with stratum themes? No. It just means that having a bunch of anecdotal reports of the form, "Oh wow, I got a drop that matched the stratum theme, too!" isn't really evidence that there is a correlation. To remove that confirmation bias, your decision of what data to include must not be influenced by whether or not it fit the hypothesis. For instance, interested parties could agree in advance to record all their drops over a certain time period. Of course, even if you do that you will most likely have one of two problems: You'll be dealing with the statistics of small numbers (small samples are usually not very meaningful); or if you have a lot of participants, many of them will drop out, and you'll have to be concerned with biases in which participants followed through and which did not. (Hint: Participants whose results are exciting will be more likely to follow through.)

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 09:51

#46

Teferi

I picked up a Dusker Coat

I picked up a Dusker Coat yesterday in the Jelly Farm (Copper Bishop Gate).

It was in a chest in the "arena" that I had to open with energy.
Best 3 energy I've ever spent.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 16:31

#47

Pupu

Legacy Username

@Trouserman >The ones which

@Trouserman
>The ones which coincidentally match the stratum themes are the most memorable and likely to be reported.
Why exactly? This assumption is baseless in my view.

>Can't remember
Well that doesn't help at all.
But that you can't doesn't mean that nobody can't.
That's why I'm asking about equips, and not mats or tokens which nobody pays attention too.
But also drop by area in my experience.

>Solution: Control better the testing group
As much as I would love to, can't do. I tell my guild to report everything they get if that is something.

As far as I'm concerned, from this topic we will get a list of which items have dropped where, and that's all.
The conclusion is: This item has dropped here.
We see patterns, so generalizing it into Stratums is the next logical step.
As long as nobody reports something that contradicts this theory, it is valid as far as I know.
There's only induction to do here, and this is how it works, wether you like it or not, there's not a better way.
Well, actually there is, I found out a few days ago, and I'm aware of the results it shields, but the results can't be made public due to their shady nature.

Also:
Found a Strike Needle at Jelly King area: http://i52.tinypic.com/5oyzy9.jpg

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 17:17

#48

AkuTenshii

Legacy Username

I had no idea gear could

I had no idea gear could drop. I thought it was purely gained from vendors.

Am I just extra unlucky, or are drops before T3 just insanely rare?

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 19:15

#49

Gigafreak

Legacy Username

">The ones which

">The ones which coincidentally match the stratum themes are the most memorable and likely to be reported.
Why exactly? This assumption is baseless in my view."

This is actually a very common phenomenon affected by a multi-course buffet of cognitive biases working together.

(And don't you dare say you have no cognitive biases. That's the Bias Blind Spot, which is a cognitive bias in and of itself.)

The big ones at work in this particular situation are Illusory Correlation and the Von Restorff effect.

Other contributing biases:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attentional_Bias
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expectation_bias
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focusing_effect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjective_validation

TLDR: It's not baseless at all, it's a very valid concern. Correlation does not imply causation.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 20:04

#50

Pupu

Legacy Username

Nice epistemological and psychological discussion, but I'm doing science here.
Get me some counterexamples.

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Treasure boxes Gear/Area relationship