Tested out the new shard bombs a few seconds ago (literally) and now I'm starting to agree with the "Give back the old shard bombs" idea. Even though I used the old ones only once I loved them. It was like a gun which shot in different directions at once. Despite the effort OOO and Sega put into the update it isn't as satisfying as i thought 5 minutes ago(sorry OOO and Sega, but its a fact). I'm also wondering about the same thing as Zeddy above me is.
-What is the point of normal-damage shard bombs? (My answer) To let beginners get them and eventually regret the whole thing when they realize that the Nitronome is much better.
Open Discussion: Brining Back the Shard Bombs? Petition Included!
Fri, 09/14/2012 - 23:17
#402
The papaya has change in thought
Sat, 09/15/2012 - 04:47
#403
You know, somewhere in the back of my mind I genuinely worry that all these new shard bombs are my fault ever since I answered "I want to get every bomb in the game!" to an in-game survey about my ultimate goal in the game.
I was one bomb away from it before the update.
Sat, 09/15/2012 - 05:39
#404
Bit of an update...... Sorry for Wall 'o Text
Acck - Yesterday at 1:19pm:
Hello Aphrodite,
While I am not fully satisfied with your responses....
Not intending to put out a buggy bomb goes along with not listening to feedback from test server.
No real reason why the RSS could not have been the elemental line, since so many customers had purchased specifically for the elemental damage.
Did not really address the encouragement by Hyperion.
I am ecstatic that you took the time to craft a response to questions that have been hanging for some time now.
And yes, I have started crafting a Deadly Crystal bomb.
However, I am waiting to see how ooo conducts itself concerning the below questions, and about 3 more I am sure you are aware of.
Your response is a huge step in restoring my willingness to crack open the wallet.
Thanks again for your time,
Cheers,
-Acck
Aphrodite - Yesterday at 2:29pm:
I'm not part of the development decisions for the game, and while I can collect player feedback/suggestions and pass that along, the ultimate decisions are beyond my control. When the developers decided to change the RSS away from elemental, I'm sure they had a good reason. If I had to guess (this is only a personal guess and is not informed by any news/rumors/innuendo/secret listening devices inside the developer hub) I would think one reason is because that bomb has a bonus damage against fiends, who are weak to piercing. It makes sense that a bomb meant for use against fiends would be crafted to take advantage of their weakness. You will notice that the salt bomb line was also changed in that release, from piercing to shadow (something that players had requested in the suggestion forums!) since it is meant to take advantage of the jelly weaknesses. I'm absolutely positive the developers were not sitting around saying 'look at all the people using the RSS for elemental damage - let's screw with them and change it!'
I took a look at the post by Hyperion and it is not meant to be an encouragement to ragecraft the bombs, but simply a clarification of information from the release notes. I wasn't on duty at the time of the release, but based on the time stamps on the forum posts, the release notification went up around 10am, and Hyperion's post was at 11:24. 90 minutes for the release countdown, and that left only a few minutes between Hyperion's post and the server shut down. If that is not the correct timing, again, I wasn't there at the time.
The developers do listen to feedback from the testing server forums. That is why they have a testing server and give players a chance to comment. They don't have to do that with new content, but they value the opinions of players about how new elements will fit into the game. However, the final decisions about changes to the game are theirs, and sometimes they can't always do what the players ask or want (FREE CE FOR EVERYONE!).
What do you think about the Crystal bomb line? I know it will never be the same as the RSS, but in most cases I enjoy the new shard bombs. I found this a good opportunity to branch out and try new bombs. I didn't realize I had fallen into a rut of using the same thing all the time, and rather enjoy experimenting with different alternatives.
Acck - Yesterday at 3:50pm:
Thanks first off for the dialogue.
Your explanation as to the loss of Elemental is reasonable, yet disappointing.
I will try the RSS a bit more on the Fiends.
Especially seeing there are lots of Fiends opportunities in the Danger Missions.
The smile just seemed to be a topper in hindsight. Moving on with life.
Unfortunately, I would like to disagree here in relation to the shard bombs.
Most of the responses gave very clear and concise issues related to these bombs, be it disappearing shards, not only next to walls but monsters as well, be it fuse times, be it stun.
Since the bombs appear to have been implemented exactly as they were on the test server, one is left to wonder why bother with the test server at all if no improvements/changes were to be made based on feedback from testers.
I think I will enjoy the line once the bugs are fixed, and that is a huge issue here.
Unless there is something major I am not seeing, it does not make sense to have rushed these products to market before most bugs were corrected.
It is impossible to use my RSS at the moment due to Stun issue.
Further the balance of damage is way out of Whack, see EEKS wiki page concerning damage values.
I do look forward to applying these new mechanics.
I will say I did arcade run yesterday, I had all bombs with me, when I came upon a deconstruction zone.
There was an area that had 3 openings blocked by disappearing blocks which I had no way to hit as there were no jars in the level. So I missed out on 2 treasure boxes.
So this is an issue for the bomber, amongst other issues like turrets and such.
Again,
Thank you for your time,
Cheers,
-Acck
Aphrodite - Yesterday at 6:11pm:
I can understand it is frustrating with the bugs that are more apparent with the bomb changes (really, I can empathize), but since I'm not involved with development and the release schedule, all I can do is pass along player feedback from support requests and the forums. I do know about the letter players sent to the office, and the response sent by Tom, our COO, so your input is being heard and an internal dialog is taking place. Hopefully, the result will be positive for the players.
I encourage you to make good use of F2 (or /bug if you are on a mac), anytime you experience one of these bugs with the bombs, or anything else in the game. I have experience from Puzzle Pirates, that sometimes the trigger to finding a solution to a long-term bug is that one player-submitted bug report with just the right information. Pass that information along to your friends and guild mates. The more data we have about these bugs, and descriptions of any unusual circumstances when they happen, the more likely the developers are to find a solution. I have seen a lot of people complaining about some of these bugs, but when I look at our bug report system, I do not see very much information there. Bug reports do make a difference and are very important. I know a lot of people feel like we just say that to put them off, but in most cases the player logs are significant to fixing issues.
The lack of vases in the deconstruction zone does sound like a bug. I believe the levels are designed so that you can do them, even without a gun (I've found that spare sleep vial is awesome as a gun substitute in cases like this). If you see this happen again, please F2 so the level designers can take a look. Turrets can be a challenge without a gun, yes, but personally, the game wouldn't be fun without a challenge. ;)
I did take a look at Eeks' wiki page and it rocks! I'll need to set aside some time to study it more in depth.
Sat, 09/15/2012 - 06:15
#405
F2 during a Maulos fight? Sounds legit.
But, yeah, if we just post the bugs via F2, they don't have to do anything. The average player will assume only a few reports were sent even if many were sent, because no feedback is given regarding the bug itself.
Also, many bugs involve boss monsters such as Maulos or Lord Vanaduke, or other large and dangerous monsters like Trojans and Battlepods. It would be a toss up between reporting the bug (while getting torn apart in the background) and finishing the battle (without reporting the bug). A common bug, where shards from consecutive bombs would count as being from the same bomb and thus not explode, would have the same issue.
Sat, 09/15/2012 - 09:44
#406
Your wording is far more polite than I would have been able to write without clenching my buttocks to the point of implosion.
Especially after:
"I know it will never be the same as the RSS, but in most cases I enjoy the new shard bombs. I found this a good opportunity to branch out and try new bombs. I didn't realize I had fallen into a rut of using the same thing all the time, and rather enjoy experimenting with different alternatives."
"Oh, everyone else hates them, but I like them even though I probably never use bombs at all whatsoever."
Sat, 09/15/2012 - 12:09
#407
Lick
OOO doesn't care about player opinions, they put the bombs on the testing server to milk testing money on a controversial topic. Once they got feedback they ignored it and put them on the test server again to "test" lockdown. What did people say? They said they were useless. Not only were they slow and weak, they were completley crippled by invincibility frames. It's weird how the only weapon tested by players in lockdown is the worst weapon to use in lockdown.
It's been over a month and Nick is still sitting on his thumbs.
Sat, 09/15/2012 - 14:41
#408
At this point......
I am just happy Aphrodite took the time to have a discussion.
Having a chat was kinda a big point of contention.
I may not have agreed with or liked some of the the things Aphrodite said,
but the point is she actually took the time to interact.
So, let's all go fill up those F2 logs!
Inundate I say!
Fill 'em to the max.
More F2 is better F2!
So Finger number 2 away, that's what ooo wants, that's what we give!
Frankly, I will happily give them the F2 all day long for these bombs.
Sat, 09/15/2012 - 16:08
#409
Nice job Acck, that's already
Nice job Acck, that's already something. :)
I finally learned how to get into OOO's support (their coding makes people with different OS' languages get a white page for god knows why) , I will be sending some questions to them and post here if I get something useful.
Sun, 09/16/2012 - 00:17
#410
The papaya wants to tell Oatmonster something(and point out)
Totally agreed.
Anybody realize how Admins don't seem to comment unless we use bad language, we posts these types of posts, or if they're trying to tell us NOT to do something(as well as announcing something). The only post I saw by admins which weren't related to what I just mentioned was one admin who commented about how silly one thread was, and another (forgot who, the admin with the love puppy pic) who hosted the drawing contest.
There posts are usually like "Please don't used bad language/watch your language " or "We check the threads every single day"
Maybe I'm just being paranoid.
P.S I bet some admin is going to comment about this post I made -_-
Mon, 09/17/2012 - 16:07
#411
I guess that trying the
I guess that trying the support to talk about the weapon's logic doesn't really helps... All I got was some copy paste about the bombs (sorry if it wasn't a copy paste, Chronus and Atalanta but it really looked like one since all that I said was ignored and I got a default answer that guns shoot, bombs AoE and bla bla), but I guess that I can't really blame them since they aren't devs and must be tired of hearing this everyday, I was to blame for thinking that I could get some decent speculation as to why it made sense or something. :/
Well, stick to the forum's complains that is, at least I can learn other peoples point of view about the devs' weapon categorizing and share mine since I guess we will never get a true answer to why it could make sense or even an apologize for not making any.
And looking at the bright side they acknowledged the bug that makes people with that doesn't have their OS' default language available at the site to get a white screen.
Thu, 09/20/2012 - 22:05
#412
Lick
Page 3! what is this doing there? Hypocritical bump.
Fri, 09/21/2012 - 03:09
#413
I think part of the reason
I think part of the reason comes down to the unique bomb style that RSS/ISB offered, that's been totally removed. Guns and swords have a mixture of different styles and as such, most runs can be fully achieved with these weapons; some guns have lower range than others, some swords have longer range etc, but only one bomb had any kind of range.
I viewed RSS as less of a "bomb" and more of a "grenade". It wasn't about exploding a large group in one wide hit as much as it was about just getting a smaller group close by, with the possibility of some shrapnel hitting farther away. This gave different options and strategies for bombers and did allow them a single "ranged" option (such as shooting puppets across ledges, like in Scarlett Fortress), but with the new cluster, it's little different from any other bomb. RSS may have killed small groups faster than other bombs, but large groups were what defeated RSS from becoming OP; however the new cluster bombs deal such low damage that there's virtually no point using them.
And of course, if we add to the point that RSS now has a stun (which is counter-effective, since stun is still bugged) and that the elemental line was moved from it (which was most peoples reason for crafting RSS in the first place) then it's gone and forced all bombers to make new bombs just to get back an elemental option.
Altough I don't think they're bad bombs (shy of their dismal damage and useless stun) in concept, I think it's pretty bad that they just removed the old shard line completely. It'd have been better just adding in new ones and keeping the old, rather than taking away an incredibly popular and unique bomb.
Sun, 09/23/2012 - 07:41
#414
Whoosh
Back to da top.
Mon, 09/24/2012 - 14:29
#415
Bump
Welcome back to the first page.
Mon, 09/24/2012 - 17:29
#416
actually...
i am going to express my opinion about the Shard Line here.
I use to own the Sun Shards but i sold it to the NPV for merely 10,000crowns.
Note: i never learned how to use it well and i didnt like it so im so-so
But, i have many friends who the SS was there signature weapon. Many bombers were actually beast. Now when i play with them, i sorta miss that shard quick save. so yea I do want the Shards back.
Wed, 09/26/2012 - 17:05
#417
Stating the obvious in a way that is not a bump
Either OOO has some other reason for this, or they are mournfully out of touch with their own game.
Fri, 09/28/2012 - 15:22
#418
2nd page? NOPE
Mon, 10/01/2012 - 19:55
#419
Bump post
is not a bump
Mon, 10/01/2012 - 20:30
#420
@Addi
Because we totally dont need any of those bumps you give, but in any other case ill help keep it here like a pretty toy.
~if you dont understand consider it a bumpish sorta thing~
Tue, 10/02/2012 - 08:01
#421
Friendly reminder that
Friendly reminder that bumping threads is against the forum rules. Adding to the discussing is fine, but pointless bumps or links to irrelevant videos are not. Thank you!
Tue, 10/02/2012 - 23:59
#422
Not a bomber but signing here.
Its pathetic how even with no one liking these bombs, OOO isnt doing a single thing to fix it.
Wed, 10/03/2012 - 21:07
#423
Response timed to bump thread (is that okay?)
Well, I wouldn't call them pointless. They signify that I still care about this issue enough to visit this thread. I would attempt to continue discussion, but everything has already been said.
Some other, less relevant stuff:
It'd be nice if you guys posted more in the suggestions forum. At the very least, I'd like to know when I've been rejected, because you're kinda leaving me hanging on this.
Next up, I was recently sent a message from the GM team about forum behavior. I think it was on swearing. I don't really censor or filter myself on the forums (and don't want to) but I'll try to have a more official tone in the future. But, more importantly - I received this message on an alt. Long after it was relevant and I would have known what it was talking about. If you guys (or anyone else on this forum) wants to contact me, my main account is addisona - a kongregate account that you guys won't let me convert.
Thu, 10/04/2012 - 12:51
#424
@Addisond
Most likely it is due to what Aphrodite said: Bumping with no relevant info isn't allowed.
Fri, 10/05/2012 - 23:13
#425
Crying Shame
There are some threads that need to be kept at the forefront.
To remind people that this is still an ongoing issue.
If it were not for a periodic bump the thoughts and opinions that are still relevant would not be seen by the community that lurks in these forums.
Until ooo acknowledges that errors have been made in the implementation of these bombs, then all that is within is still relevant.
Acknowledgment can come in many forms, direct admission, quietly fixing what has broken, or even reverting to the previous mechanic.
Mon, 10/15/2012 - 11:14
#426
Best quote ever for this thread, worth getting yelled at
"How upsetting it is, that so many of our [players] (good people, not lawless ones, on both sides of this [shard bomb] issue, and on various sides of other issues as well) think that [the devs] should properly take into account their views, as though we were engaged not in ascertaining an objective law but in determining some kind of social consensus."
-JUSTICE ANTONIN SCALIA
Questions I'd honestly like some answers to:
-Is disappearing shards considered a bug or feature? Do the developers intend to fix that?
-Is the hit limit considered a bug or feature?
-Are the devs aware that enemies sometimes stop taking damage from shard bombs altogether?
-Are the devs aware that the bombs are useless against bosses such as Maulos and the giant battlepod in GitM? Any plans to fix that?
-What is the point of normal-damage shard bombs?
Edit: Oh god, new page. People should check Acck's post in the previous page.