Plate mail should have slightly less normal defense in exchange for 1 more HP plip per armor peice. Makes it more well rounded, pure normal on a 2* is fairly useless considering most monsters from strata 2 and up don't deal normal. Adding more HP and less defense makes it more well rounded, since HP applies to all damage types.
Also, would anyone like giving it some peircing by default, making ironmight more like the rest of the line? Would be good for pure demo recons in LD...
Almost all mobs from stratum 2 and up do at least some normal damage.
Addi;
People still use VT + SS in LD right? Plate mail is good for demos because bombs are not affected by ASD. Was considering making a BN loadout of mercurial demo helm with ironmight plate mail. Movement bonus, damage bonus, and overlooked ASD mixed with max bomb CTR from the recon shield. Not sure what you mean by "not too much or the extra HP counterbalances the speed loss in LD." The HP/defense should compensate for the speed loss. That would mean its balanced.
Duke;
I meant that none deal pure normal. I'd say by the 3rd strata you get less bang-for-your buck so to speak, but thats a guestimate.
"I meant that none deal pure normal. I'd say by the 3rd strata you get less bang-for-your buck so to speak, but thats a guestimate."
Plate mail is supposed to be an all-round melee tanking set. So you can take it to any strata, and reduce damage from any melee attack from any monster. That being said, a health boost would be helpful, but I don't believe any additional damage resistances need be added. After all, it's the 5* resistances from Ironmight and Volcanic that really matter and if you're dedicated to plate mail you'll get it to 5*.
Movement speed penalties stack additively on top of walk speed penalties (assuming they work the same as bonuses). Although this is pretty insignificant for VT and SS, it would be a fair amount more important in the case of any slower-moving bombs.
When I say "not too much or the extra HP counterbalances the speed loss in LD", I mean that if you give someone with ancient too much extra health, it becomes better than other armors that offer regular speed and no extra health. Because LD is all about time, and if you have more health you die less. And that means you spend less time running back to battle. The extra time provided by the extra health shouldn't overcompensate for the lost time from the slower speed.
Wolver lines get just as much health at +5 heat level. 8(
They also get sword damage bonus (or attack speed if you go Vog), while plate gets what? Attack speed reduction and a bit more protection against normal? q.q
I am aware of the resistances and all that too (though sleep will probably be making a return, just a question of when, and we'll all be sleeping like babies), but I honestly don't really feel like this is making up for it. Attack speed and damage is something highly valued among players. I'd be fat and happy if plate were to get something like sword damage bonus; low (or higher by all means). Which makes sense since it's supposed to be tank after all, right? Maybe even add a gun damage/speed reduction, since I don't really see this as a gun armour and sword use should be encouraged (in my honest opinion).
@Addisond
What are you guys talking about? the regular plates (the ones taht will get this boost) dont have movement decrease. Only attack decrease, wich affects sword swing speed, but not bomb walk speed.
But yeah, what Little-Juances said.
As for Ancient, if anything, it needs an even bigger boost than the other two.
Someone I talked to wearing full Ironmight said that, when attacked by T3 enemies, he did not even see any normal damage being inflicted on him. Only the specialized part of it.
Ooops, thanks for correcting me juances. Ancient doesn't need boosting. It's not supposed to be a viable long-term armor choice since it's available at a high star level through tokens.
It's a 5* token item. If anything, it should be *better* than normal craftable 5*s, not worse. (I don't actually think it should be better, though, just on par.)
A 5 star, token-only-obtainable, last-boss-grinding armour set... Should just be on par? I agree that it would make sense to at least have it on par with the other armours but... This armour isn't exactly something you can just buy some CE and trade for, or grind money for. We're talking about running one of the hardest levels in the game enough times to accumulate tokens for it here.
Sure, on par would be okay, but I feel it should at least have a slight advantage of some kind. Be it a low swordbonus or whatever (maybe subtract that attack speed decrease so it's a different from the other plate armours and leave it with the movement decrease only).
I don't even want to know how many people wear it as costume only, compared with those who use it as their armour.
Ummm...
If that's the case.... Shadowlair armors should be godmodding in a nutshell......
and I'd honestly balance the shadowlair armors before a lowly t3 boss...
In general, defensive armors do not receive enough notoriety simply due to the fact that said armors don't tank the damage that much better than any of the specialist gear. And Luguiru has posted plenty of fix ideas for it, show some support for your fellow poster... he's got an anthology of suggestions... all of which are viable.
P.S. Orange, he suggested exactly what you did amongst other changes for plate line...
Yea, but the thing is, if someone has aquired, lets say, full volcanic plate mail.
The person then grinds Firestorm Citadel until he/she gets enough tokens for full ancient plate mail.
Problem is, the full ancient plate mail is worse than the volcanic that the player already has, and it can't get better. Effectively rendering the armour moot. Right?
Some would argue that flourish is better than snarble barb, that catalyzer is worse than everything gunner, that the FOV is more a trophy weapon than a viable one...
And the APS is a god at shieldbumping/tanking trojans...
APS out shieldbumps all other shields, it even moves trojans and deadnaughts. That in itself redeems the sheild some.
Point is, not all boss token items are gonna be a home run hit, but they are essentially "extras" that are awarded for your ability to play. The intent of many boss items in quite a few games is to simply look awesome/be themed to the boss... Which i feel is accomplished. This was probably 3r's focus in the first place.
STD
Are you serious? Shields have different shieldbumping strengths?
How does it compare to, say, Volcanic Plate Shield?
I don't expect Three Rings to do anything about any of this. This is just an outlet of a couple of thoughts I carry while playing Spi Kni from time to time.
Also I think it would be nice to maybe be rewarded with something useful. Be it plate armours or Fang of Vog, as long as it is useful in some way.
Let me ask you this- would you honestly consider using it over skolver if it gave you a whopping 1 pip of HP? Thats the difference between like 1/25 of your HP and 14% of your total damage on swords per piece.
Would you be using it if it had one and a half times as much piercing/normal defense as it currently does? Twice? Offensive armor is GOOD, and 1 pip of health isn't going to change that.
VPS shieldbump v. trojan (ultimate shieldbump monster here anyway) ~ half a square (so his smash which would have been dead on, becomes a glancing blow)
APS shieldbump v. trojan ~ 1-1.5 squares (his smash is moved just out of range.)
It's a beautiful piece of work... Sadly there is no shieldbumping bosses. But APS would likely be THE shield to do the job.
APS can shieldbump a leaping slag completely off course... SSB would just barely ditz it.
Shieldbumping appears to be almost directly connected to the shield's defense... Normal defense provides most of the shield's bumping ability, while specialist defenses provide a LIGHT boost. (by light, I mean so small that 5* shields get about .25 squares on their bump ability v. normal size monsters (read anything about wolver size) compared to a normal alternative).
So, yeah...
I've derailed this thread a bit...
Well, we sorta run out of arguements for the OP I think. We could go on saying yes no yes no yes no, or we can broaden the topic a bit.
Also, I didn't know about the shieldbumping, so thanks for enlightening me on that. At least the APS doesn't seem completely useless now.
Speed loss+bombs=bad. And almost no one is pure demo now, RSS was the only damage bomb that worked well. Piercing inherent doesn't really make sense. I like more HP and less normal defense, but not too much or the extra HP counterbalances the speed loss in LD.