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Antigua line VS Alchemer line

5 replies [Last post]
Sun, 11/11/2012 - 13:43
Thetwan

Hello there!

im sure this is on the forum somewhere already but im lazy so ima make a new thread!

i have recently been looking to make a gunners arsenal so i can switch between using guns and swords at will. my friend who is a gunslinger says that for elemental weapons that the alchemer line is the best. i do not agree

i have an AP and im going to get a Sentenza. my friend says that is an awful idea and he hates both weapons. so i have a question

in your own opinion, do you prefer the Antigua line guns or the Alchemer guns? if so why? and what are the uses for each weapon?

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 14:01
#1
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

From: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/61167

Sentenza VS Umbra driver

Sentenza offers more mobility, while umbra driver offers more damage, and that is the bottom line. Sentenza has better control over the level due to its fast shot speed and large clip, while umbra driver offers the ability to utilize the switch-shield-shoot tactic that enables the user to rapidfire stronger shots and once again, deal more damage. Overall, Sentenza is much better if you can adequately strafe through bullet hell as it will help you out with that, while umbra driver is better at taking out bullet hell faster. Sentenza's charge is next to useless as well, while umbra driver's charge once again... does a ton of damage, and enables umbra driver to OHKO enemies in a pinch, should the user have CTR on the thing. Umbra driver is also better against crowds of enemies, especially when gremlin healers are involved.

Sentenza is better as a side weapon in many cases due to its ability to hit buttons and things over gaps better, while umbra driver may be the weapon of choice for a "gunner" whom wishes to deal tons of damage. Keep in mind that umbra driver also requires more skill to use, and is far cheaper than Sentenza.

------------Also relevant------------------

Alchemers VS Alchemers VS Alchemers VS Alchemers

Copied from another thread where I commented-
Nova: Best for single target damage VS enemies lacking shields that are not weak to umbra
Storm: Best for large groups of enemies that are close together and move often; works well with magma; best general crowd control
Magma: Best for turrets and large groups of enemies that do not clump together; works well with storm
Hail: Best for single targets that shield and healers; works well in conjunction with other ice themed items; best deliberate crowd control

Alchemers VS Argent Peacemaker VS Polaris

Just as was the case before, much of the argument relating to 'Sentenza VS Umbra driver' remains true here. Alchemers are better for damage, while AP is better at mobility. AP's charge is just as terrible as Sentenza's, and the alchemers rock. In this case, the status alchemers are better in terms of crowd control, and AP is better at.. switches. The alchemers only get stronger though, as the rapidfire switching relies on them more often than not, and as I wrote above, Storm+Magma driver is an awesome combination, allowing the user to hit for massive damage quickly.

Polaris is the odd one out here. Its better at turrets, and somewhat terrible otherwise. The reason, is that it has knockback and shock... shock cancels knockback, making it unpredictable. That being said, it can be used to deal decent damage, but still far less than the alchemers and even Argent Peacemaker. If anything, polaris is just an efficient way to kill turrets, and as such is not good at this job.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 03:00
#2
Fradow's picture
Fradow
WARNING : edit on 12/28/2012

WARNING : edit on 12/28/2012, thanks to Traevelliath who noticed I used charge shot value for Nova.

Antigua lines are easy to use, but they just can't match alchemers on raw dps. While antigua makes for a perfect side-arm for swordsmen, a pure gunner should definitely go for alchemers.

Some data to back that up : according Lancer Knightz data with no ASI, AP get 24 combo per minute, while alchemers get 32. Let's ignore the alchemers-switching for now.

According the wiki, for no DMG bonus :
AP get 6 shots per combo at a max of 143 damage on undeads on last depth.
Nova Driver get 2 shots per combo at a max of 220 on weak target on last depth. Sadly there is no damage figure for status-inflicting on the wiki.

That makes for 24 * 6 * 143 = 20592 damage per minute for AP
Nova Driver get 32 * 2 * 220 = 14080 damage per minute. That's about 30% less than AP.

So, in terms of raw dps, AP is better .... in the best situation

Now, to fill the gap : alchemers get a ricochet. A good gunner can use those to double his damage more often than not. Also, AP charge is ultra bad, whereas alchemers' one is very good, to the point that people takes CTR and use that instead of normal shots. Now remember the alchemers-switching ? It also improves the raw dps, by at least 25%

Also, a last detail : I took the figure against undeads for AP, while I took the "weak" for Nova. It's also unfair to Nova since AP get an Undead:Med. That means you can improve AP damage by a Very High, while you can improve Nova damage by a Max. The difference is about 14%.

Never calculated the difference between both before, and boy the difference is huge.

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 15:09
#3
Thetwan
good to know i kinda wasted a

good to know i kinda wasted a bit of money and time on getting these guns :/

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 15:21
#4
Darkbrady's picture
Darkbrady
Nah, s'not a waste of money.

Nah, s'not a waste of money. You may not use them as much, but you'll eventually need one and think "damn, this is exactly what I needed"~

Sun, 11/18/2012 - 09:50
#5
Lukehandkooler's picture
Lukehandkooler
I disagree with relegating AP

I disagree with relegating AP off as a side arm. If youre nimble with that thing you shield bump like a boss never reload and never stop shooting.

RnG alchemer is more bursty but AP kites well too, often hitting 3 diff mobs with 4-5 shots. The extra damage from having range and swift bullets to DPS stuff before it gets croaked must add up too.

I like alchemers too, Hail Driver was my first 5* ever, but I think AP could give it a fair run.

~Luke

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