Pop.
the world of sk is dying to lags
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 21:59
#52
@Psychodestroyer
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 22:13
#53
The latest patch was 3 weeks
The latest patch was 3 weeks ago.
So, yeah, we have been waiting a while.
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 22:15
#54
@Hex "The devs are working on
@Hex "The devs are working on finding the problem." Suuurrrre, lets release more reskin costume armors and in the meantime we will collaborate on what color bases we should use for the next promo, or better yet, what overpriced furniture we can add to guild halls.
Now I understand that finding bugs and fixing them takes more than just "bugs_setvalue=0" but I think OOO could put a bit more priority on fixing the current and now-uprising problems with the game instead of pushing out content. I sent an email to support almost 2 weeks ago now explaining the situation with my lag problem in great detail, and I haven't gotten a response, which gives me two possible outcomes:
They don't care about 90% of their player's experience with the game anymore and only want the rich players to keep buying CE every 4 hours.
Or they got stumped and couldn't think of a response because they either couldn't admit "yeah you require massive amounts of bandwidth to play" or they simply don't know.
When I started out with this game I had a lot of respect for OOO. Each update brought new things to the game and I was always excited to see what new things I could craft and/or find in the clockworks. But now that respect is slowly fading, it started to fade when I got forcefully disconnected from a shadow lair for absolutely no reason whatsoever, and after a quick support request I got a response almost no different than this.
Now with this persistent lag/not being able to stay logged onto the game for more than 30 seconds with nothing from the GMs but an automated tech support "Is your computer plugged in?" response is making me more frustrated. Sorry OOO, but I really think this is a serious issue that more than just a handful of people have. And yes I am aware that the farther away you are from the servers, the more latency you are going to have, but what about the players who have had an excellent connection to the game before all of a sudden can't play? If it was a problem with my PC, I would've fixed it by now but sadly the problem still persists. I'm not completely blaming the servers, but I feel that there might be an issue with the network coding and how the client/server packet handling works.
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 22:56
#55
-
The latest patch was 3 weeks ago.
So, yeah, we have been waiting a while.
It's only recently that the lag has been brought to attention. It's also something that is hard to duplicate or identify by OOO staff because they live on the server, it isn't an immediately obvious problem for them or their playtesters.
Suuurrrre, lets release more reskin costume armors and in the meantime we will collaborate on what color bases we should use for the next promo, or better yet, what overpriced furniture we can add to guild halls.
Erm, the issue was CAUSED by the exact update that released the Honor gear. Color based survey has existed for yonks, and overpriced furniture is a good thing. It's not like the guildhall update was released, the Devs heard all the complaints, and then 2 weeks later released Honor gear in complete ignorance of the issue. How can they fix a problem when timeelapsed = 0?
And fixing lag is never an easy issue. Network optimisation is probably one of the most difficult parts of multiplayer game programming, and one crossed wire, one wayward pinch of potassium chlorate, and KABLOOEY!
Automated tech support is just there to filter out the idiots from the people who actually have an unsolvable problem. You'd be amazing how many people spam tech support for trivial issues that simply require a smack to the face and 15 (working) braincells.
Do you seriously expect OOO to give a detailed response about a problem they haven't even fixed yet to each one of the thousands of players who are having issues?
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 23:04
#56
yea
@helios, hah thanks for proving me right i knew i wasnt crazy! The only thing books are good for to an SK gamer is getting rid of lag!
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 00:23
#57
lol yes, blame the company
lol yes, blame the company for your horrible latency.
Anyways, I've noticed this kind of issue before, but, it had a reason and was not random. Only when Steam/Windows/Whatever was downloading something or updating. That general thing.
As Helios has said,
"Make sure no one else on your home network is uploading a lot of data (pictures, cloud sync, torrents, etc.) while you are trying to play Spiral Knights. Once SK no longer has priority upload, game performance will drop drastically. This can knock even the most reliable connection down to one red bar."
That pretty much sums it up.
If you even read that anyways.
Yeah.
/Proceeding to get flamed
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 14:58
#58
"I just got a new problem. If I log onto SK through steam, the Steam client still thinks I'm on SK and won't restart it. I literally have to log off steam, and back on, to restart SK. This doesn't happen with any other game." -Xairathan
It tends to zombiefy and stay alive in the background sometimes. Has happened to me a couple of times now.
You can kill it through taskmanager (ctrl+shift+esc) by looking at the processes and ending the java.exe process. (Edit: Okay, it's just called java.exe. Select it and press 'end process' to stop frankenstein SK.)
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 00:49
#59
@Hexzyle :
You missed a point
@Hexzyle :
You missed a point here Hex. We know that fixing a Server Problem is hard and takes time, but the thing that making us angry, is that OOO isn't putting the Lag Issue as their main priority, you said it by yourself :"(Moar guildhall furniture, doors, and boss statues, WOO!)."We don't want more cosmetic things now, we do want them, but not now! Fixing the lag issue should be the main priority. Please tell me if I am wrong.
Summary : More cosmetic things now < Fixing the lag issue
Note : The lag issue has been here since the spectating update, but it got really noticeable and unbearable after the GH update, just FYI.
@Cobalt:
I really don't know what should I tell you, but... seems that you didn't read our comments. We said that we have up to date drivers, no one is downloading anything in the house, and even if someone is doing that, BEFORE we didn't experience that but now we do. And we DID read Helios comment but it is not satisfying actually, just a generic one as others said.
I really sense a Non-Pinger aura from you...
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 00:58
#60
*looks around at the dozens
*looks around at the dozens of people sharing his connection, causing his system to lag*
...
OH, WAIT. I'm the ONLY ONE HERE.
*looks at the huge piles of software using his connection*
By Jove, I think I've figured it out. It's the Bluetooth applet! THAT'S what's causing me to disconnect!
...
No, not really.
Sometimes it really is the servers.
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 01:24
#61
A Non-Pinger aura, lolwat?
A Non-Pinger aura, lolwat? Enjoy a speed test of mine to the area near where the servers are.. http://www.speedtest.net/result/2354467336.png
Anyways, what kind of answer were you expecting? "We are sorry that you have latency issues. We will try our best to move closer to you." Yeah, okay.
When the spectator thing came out, I didn't notice a thing, and I still don't. I've noticed that it's the same type of players who complain about spectating causing an issue for them.
/comment comment type type.
You could always do what Bacon does, and just play at 3 AM if it matters that much to you anyways lol.
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 01:33
#62
@Xxdragneel
You missed a point here Hex. We know that fixing a Server Problem is hard and takes time, but the thing that making us angry, is that OOO isn't putting the Lag Issue as their main priority, you said it by yourself :"(Moar guildhall furniture, doors, and boss statues, WOO!)."We don't want more cosmetic things now, we do want them, but not now! Fixing the lag issue should be the main priority. Please tell me if I am wrong.
My side statement there was merely an exclamation in glee at the upcoming update, on a non-serious note, which along with possibly shedding some light on the lag problem, will release some new, anticipated stuff.
Anyway. Who says that the 10 or so programmers, design artists, and composers that constitute three rings can only focus on a single project, and that is identifying the lag problem? Should all the graphical designers be forced to put their work on hold because there's a bug that needs fixing that isn't even related to their expertees of work? Of course not.
Implementing cosmetic stuff using recycled code (the same code that is in the game for accessories for accessories promotions, and furniture for furniture expansions) takes a minuscule amount of time than restructuring code, bug-finding, and implementing new game elements does. Don't fool yourself into thinking that Three Rings, as a company, cannot work on more than one thing at once.
I imagine the situation to be something like this: Graphical Designers continue their la-di-da business making awesome looking stuff for the game. Graphical Designer man comes up to programmer man and says "Hey, finished those cool items we were going to put in game". The programmer isn't going to go "Hey man, not now, I got a bug to fix. Nothing can be implemented into the game until this annoying bug is fixed". He's going to go "Sure, those look good. It'll take me not even a couple hours to program seeing as they use pre-existing code that Programmer man B was working on, and it will be worth it, then I can get back to this annoying bug"
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 01:37
#63
@Gods-Corpse "The only thing
@Gods-Corpse "The only thing books are good for"? that is the scariest statement I ever did hear. you have overheating issues which cause your lag, please read books they are very important.
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 01:52
#64
@Hexzyle :
I got your point,
@Hexzyle :
I got your point, but I didn't even mention the Graphic Designers, I am saying that the people responsible of the Server things and stuff "That I really don't know but related to the Network and Server" should notice us atleast, they "Might" be searching for it right now, but we want a sign that they are doing so, just one comment atleast rather than the generic replies. I would like to see this : A GM "We are looking for the problem, hang on please", I guess that is simple isn't ?
We are like a T-Rex that needs a tranquilizer before it destroys everything " I saw Jurrasic Park yesterday, so I took it from there :P"
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 02:17
#65
@Xxdragneel
The thing is, if they don't find the issue, and they spent too much time attempting to rectify/locate the bug, which unsettles players due to the lack of updates/content.
If they put the issue on hold until they have more info, and pop out a bit of content so that players don't get on edge, players rage because the developers haven't fixed what players want them to fix.
Either way, the developers can't win.
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 03:10
#66
Then I guess the game will
Then I guess the game will die a slow and painful death just like Runes of Magic, Maplestory and Ragnarok Online. Whatever, when I learn Java or someone else makes a private server I'm gone. I'm sick of trying to fix a problem that isn't even mine to begin with. OOO can do whatever they please, if they wanna push out content, go right ahead. I'll just sit back and watch as more and more players start lagging worse and worse until nobody can even log on anymore.
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 03:26
#67
.
(Crawls over to the asian server quietly)
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 03:59
#68
That's what will happen next.
That's what will happen next. If ( For example ) 500 players are lagging now, it will get 1000 tommorow and 2000 the next week and 5000 next month... in the end alot of players will quit because the game is unplayable and actually not enjoyable. Seeing that we will only get new cosmetic stuff and feeling that OOO is thinking that we are Toddlers who are waiting for lolipops, that makes me feel bad :/
@Cobalt :
"A Non-Pinger aura, lolwat? Enjoy a speed test of mine to the area near where the servers are.."
Atleast your ping is lower than mine, your connection shows that it is 1mb right ? Ok how about this : I have 40mb and don't lag in any other game including TF2, and I have over 300 ping in SK. Not alot I guess, very nice to have a nice gameplay, right ?
"Anyways, what kind of answer were you expecting? "We are sorry that you have latency issues. We will try our best to move closer to you." Yeah, okay."
Oh really ? Just tell me when I said I want this answer ? Looks like that you only like to bash. I didn't say that I want them to move the server near me, yet I want a fix for the crappy servers. It is not an issue from me or others, as I said, and I will say it again, Alot of us aren't lagging in many other games, what does that means ? It is a problem from the servers, it has nothing to do with distance.
"When the spectator thing came out, I didn't notice a thing, and I still don't. I've noticed that it's the same type of players who complain about spectating causing an issue for them."
You said it by yourself. Not if YOU aren't having problem means that all players don't. And yeah, we will keep complaining because we LOVE this game and we don't want them to ruin it just because they are busy doing other things "Mostly Cosmetic".
"You could always do what Bacon does, and just play at 3 AM if it matters that much to you anyways lol."
I have other things to do other than Spiral Knights, a person needs sleep I guess. And 3 AM is too late I guess, none will be playing on EU anyways.
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 10:07
#69
Alrighty, let's try and back
Alrighty, let's try and back this up and clear out some misconceptions.
First is why we pursue hardware solutions first even when a player complains of lag:
There are bug reports submitted every day where a player complains of lag. In the majority of these reports we can see entirely normal connection stats and a computer with an older hardware/driver setup that is dropping frames instead. When the game drops frames due to being non-responsive it also means it isn't sending or receiving data. This causes lag, but the source is the player computer.
Next is that we learned during the Preview Event that drivers really matter:
In the early days of Spiral Knights graphics driver incompatibility errors were incredibly common and they caused some very unexpected behavior with the game client. Generally giving the graphics driver installation a complete do-over helped a lot of players get a more reliable gameplay experience. Now when we see a bug report that shows a graphics driver that's over a year old it raises an immediate red flag in our troubleshooting process. This is doubly so if the bug report contains a crash log citing the driver as the failure point.
Content updates do not inherently introduce more lag:
Much like noticing a UV roll cluster this is typically the brain grasping for a pattern that isn't there. In many cases it's possible to find an older set of bug reports from a player claiming increased lag when the logs show no change.
Connection issues are extremely hard to diagnose:
Once things are happening outside the player computer we can no longer accurately diagnose what's happening. It is extremely uncommon for the source of a disconnection to be the game. Normally all it knows is that the connection was terminated for some reason. The why and how are outside the game. We try to help with what we know the player usually has control over and can definitely influence. These include firewalls, security suites, wireless networks and modems. Once the data arrives at the server it's got no idea why the data is delayed, just that it was. There are a potentially hundreds amount of devices between your computer and the server you are connected to, all of which neither the player nor OOO can influence.
We do understand that not every case can fit the same tried and true method of troubleshooting. This is why we request hardware details and bug logs. We try to capture as many details as possible and follow though the basic steps that guarantee common problem isn't occurring. It's only then can we tell is something extraordinary is going on.
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 12:36
#70
Steam related
We do understand that not every case can fit the same tried and true method of troubleshooting. This is why we request hardware details and bug logs. We try to capture as many details as possible and follow though the basic steps that guarantee common problem isn't occurring. It's only then can we tell is something extraordinary is going on.
Just a question (not trying to be a [bucket] but it does fit in the "[bucket]" category I guess, sorry :S)
If I can't connect via Steam does it means the Steam connection delayed or that you could not respond to him? Since I can connect fine via normal method (not happening now, but that's what happened two days ago I believe)
Exemple: If Steam is updating his firmware/DB, can this be enough to cause delay or unresponsive connection from Steam only? (and result in lag/delays from your side making everyone angry, including me?)
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 15:18
#71
@Helios:It's not that we
@Helios:
It's not that we (and especially I) don't appreciate that most of the time lag is caused by client issues. But when the game goes from all-but-perfectly playable (barring client issues) to fairly-less-than-perfectly playable (client issues be damned) without any client changes, there's a problem.
My bet is on network congestion; the players newly come back/ signed up have clogged up the server's pipes, resulting in network issues. Unfortunately just throwing more servers at this won't solve it. What is needed is servers in another location and/or a bigger pipe to existing servers.
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 16:08
#72
Yes, SK players clogged up
Yes, SK players clogged up whole Amazon EC2 :golfclap:
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 16:33
#73
heh
Obviously SK has as many players as WoW and Diablo.
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 16:52
#74
It doesn't take that many
It doesn't take that many players to clog up a T1, or even a 10Mbit connection. It may even be happening in a software layer; the network is more than just the cable.
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 17:16
#75
YAY!
Why I'm not surprised that are people complaining about lag?...
Today I went DF Vanaduke, and got many freezes and lag spikes. Even got a 2 second freeze!
Please do not come up again with those connection and hardware related excuses.
Sure there will always be players with rubber bands and low end computers, but to make those cases an excuse to all performance issues is just wrong.
We players complain and submit a lot of reports regarding performance issues, and we also sugest new things to be brought to the game and/or changed... But are we heard? NOPE.
Few devs?
Try to hire more... What you expect if you always put things on the game that are very poorly tested?
The most funny part is that the test server is paid... So... We need to pay in order to help you? LOL!
So what will we do?
We start playing other games that at least don't make us angry every time we play it because its poorly designed.
To be honest, OOO managed to ruin a good and anti-stressing hobbie for me...
I can't play this game decently. What shall I do when I have 200 to 300 fps here and I still lag?
Stop playing this and search for another game.
You wanna believe that players will keep playing this with the absurd lags?...
Sorry to be like this, but i'm getting tired of coming here and see posts about crappy performance and lag. And what is done to solve it? AH! Lets work on another promo! And wings! Because promos and wings always solve problems.
The source of lag: JAVA based MMO game.
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 18:21
#76
Sorry, but the fact that it's
Sorry, but the fact that it's written in Java is a red herring. Java may be an awkward language, but the performance of Java applications is more dependent on the programmer's skill rather than the language.
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 18:28
#77
I gave up..
Ok,i finally gave up on playing with the lag..as whenever i join a party what i saw were everyone doing moonwalk dancing..
It's sad that because i never experiences any lag in this game before after playing it for over a year..
*Went to asia server* >.>" much better connection there for an asia player like me.
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 18:41
#78
I wouldn't be surprised if I
I wouldn't be surprised if I had less lag on the asian server too, I should try it.
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:36
#79
So that's the end....
@Helios
So that's the end....
@Helios :
Does the driver updates affect the bars on upper right of the screen ? I actually don't think so, but I would like to know. And if you and us can't do anything, is that the solution ? I don't really want to leave the game, it is just unique than other ones that's why I and others love it.
Last question : What can WE do now ?
1. Sending bug reports ( Done )
2. Updating drivers ( Done )
3. No one is using the internet check ( Done )
4. Anything else ???
Fri, 12/07/2012 - 00:16
#80
@ helios
"This is why we request hardware details and bug logs"
hardware details:
Intel core i5 2320 @ 3.20 Ghz
MSI Geforce GTX 460 hawk (Always with the latest drivers and no overclocking at all)
12 GB DDR3 kingston manufactured RAM
1 MB/s speed with full bandwidth dedicated to the game
and a few games after the spectator mode patch i get this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzynxgqZC18&feature=plcp
Now I'm usually a 3 bar player (according to the pingtest.net method my ping is 110)
I can play any demanding game at the highest settings and my bandwidth should be decent enough to run the game.
Sadly i couldnt get documented proof of the simultaneous red bar thats ocurring during GVG and some lockdown games but I will post it as soon as I get it.
You cant just keep telling the community that the problem is on our side.Instead if you guys aren't doing this already should try to figure out what is causing it, We are all red barring at the same time and having the same teleporting issues whether is a 4 bar player or a 3 bar player, We the community are telling YOU devs that something is not right with the recent patches.
Fri, 12/07/2012 - 01:07
#81
I will post my hardware specs
I will post my hardware specs too then :
iMac 27 inch --->
1. Intel Core i5 760 @ 2.80 GHz ( 4 CPUs )
2. 4 GB RAM
3. ATI Radeon HD 5750 1 GB
4. 40 MB/s speed and my download on steam ranges between 1mb/s - 2mb/s for downloading.
5. Ping on Spiral Knights reaches 300 sometimes and even more.
"Sometimes" I get a good ping and latency with 3 bars on the morning, but that happens rarely.
Fri, 12/07/2012 - 01:44
#82
My turn:
Dell XPS L701X 17"
My turn:
Dell XPS L701X 17" Notebook (Custom built Laptop)
Intel Core i7 Q740 @ 1.73 GHz (Quad-Core)
12 GB DDR3 RAM
NVIDIA GeForce GT 445M 3 GB Graphics (FXAA and 3D compatibility)
Internet is 1 MB/s both download and upload, and ping to Virginia is 110 ms average, and yet in SK I get what feels like 10k+
@Xxdragneel ""Sometimes" I get a good ping and latency with 3 bars on the morning, but that happens rarely."
I have the exact same thing happening to me too, good solid 3 bars in the morning but extremely rarely, and even if it does happen it doesn't stick around long enough to do even HALF of an FSC run, before it goes back to it's usual "teleport all over the map without pushing anything, die and then get logged off forcefully by the game."
Fri, 12/07/2012 - 02:23
#83
We have alot of things in
We have alot of things in common Khomie, we should be friends :D !
And yeah, I soloed Vana just hours ago and didn't lag, but I am sure I will telerport again some hours later.
By the way, nice computer there :D. I am sure that you can run Shogun 2 Total war on max settings with smooth FPS.
Fri, 12/07/2012 - 04:03
#84
A little suggestion that might be helpful if ye try it.
Alright, I wanna ask if ye guys are using Steam... because recently I found this latency that is fixable if ye disable few things and restart yer computer + router.
Okay so, I ensure ye Steam users needed these. And make sure ye are using Steam to continue this maybe-so-called fix.
1. Go to Steam->Settings->Preferences.
2. Disable news updates, notifications etc.
3. Disable Steam Cloud Syncing. (not sure with this one, but I disabled it just to stay ensured)
4. Restart yer computer and close yer router + remove usb cables. (router is optional unless ye want to ensure it works)
5. On Windows home screen, disable any programs that interruptions yer connectivity.
6. Ye may restart yer router, once it is available, plug in the cables.
7. Open Steam, login.
8. Do not surf through Steam stores, community etc. (including Big Picture)
9. Try and see if this works on less lags.
10. Enjoy, unless it didn't work out. :< (it worked for me so.. yeah)
Hope these helps for Steam users! I don't know what to do with the standalone client users/other third party client users. Terribly sorry!
Fri, 12/07/2012 - 04:34
#85
Thunder, what do you mean by
Thunder, what do you mean by USB cables ? Do you mean the router's cables ?
Fri, 12/07/2012 - 04:43
#86
And what do you mean by step
And what do you mean by step 5 ? Can you explain more here ?
Fri, 12/07/2012 - 04:54
#87
@Xxdragneel
Open task manager with CTRL+SHIFT+DEL, click on the "Performance" tab, then click the "Resource Manager" button. When that starts up, go to the "Network" tab, and end any "Processes with Network Activity" that don't need to be running.
Fri, 12/07/2012 - 05:04
#88
@Hex
There is something named
@Hex
There is something named svchost.exe and mDNSResponder.exe , do you know what are they ? I won't end them until I know what are they :o
And if I end a process of something how can I enable it again ?
Fri, 12/07/2012 - 05:05
#89
Or I only end the things with
Or I only end the things with high PID ?
Chrome , DAP and Steam are the most.
Fri, 12/07/2012 - 05:14
#90
@Xxdragneel
Yes, the USB cables are the router cables.
For step 5.... press show desktop then ye'll know what I mean. (hehehehehehe lmao)
End processes only when they are something ye know that are interrupting yer connectivity.
Fri, 12/07/2012 - 06:33
#91
Actual shortcut to Taskmanager with most Windows OS types is CTRL+SHIFT+ESC.
Nojoke, my brother thought I was just trolling him when I said that.
Right click Java.eve and Steam in processes and set priority to high?
EDIT: Thanks Weedle.
Fri, 12/07/2012 - 06:31
#92
"Yes, the USB cables are the router cables." -Thunderbog
Wut... Ethernet cables are used for networking, not USB.
"Actual shortcut to Taskmanager with most Windows OS types is ALT+SHIFT+ESC." -Psychodestroyer
*Cough*
I think you mean CTRL+Shift+ESC.
Fri, 12/07/2012 - 06:33
#93
@Weedalot
Sorry, but okay, ethernet cables it is.
Fri, 12/07/2012 - 08:19
#94
@Weedalot
I think you mean CTRL+Shift+ESC.
Ah that's the one. Knew I was getting something wrong
Fri, 12/07/2012 - 12:18
#95
Disable spectator mode
Or just put a limit of conection (5).
After the spectetaro mode patch, everything goes WAY more laggy than usual.
One bar players like me suffer way more with this insane lag, we really need this to get fixed.
Fri, 12/07/2012 - 13:37
#96
"I think you mean CTRL+Shift+ESC.
Ah that's the one. Knew I was getting something wrong"
You do know CTRL+ALT+DEL opens up a menu that can access Taskmanager too, right?
Fri, 12/07/2012 - 18:13
#97
@Psychodestroyer
I know that, but that's the long way.
What happened to the good old days where CTRL+ALT+DEL opened up the task manager?
Fri, 12/07/2012 - 19:50
#98
@Thunderbog good suggestions
@Thunderbog good suggestions and all, but I've never had my Steam Cloud Syncing on, and I also use Gamebooster which basically kills any tasks that aren't vital to gaming or consume CPU/network resources. I'e also tried disabling Steam community in-game but that didn't make a difference, as well as rebooting my router/modem. Still good suggestions though, but I'm always lagging no matter what I do these days.
Sat, 12/08/2012 - 00:07
#99
@Khomie
Did ye uncheck the news update notifications crap? It's on the preferences, I'm sure.
Sat, 12/08/2012 - 00:19
#100
Yeah that's unchecked too.
Yeah that's unchecked too.
"Women, women, calm down"
...